Scenario Review: DiD 4 - Beginning of the Revenge

Feedback for the mainline campaign Descent into Darkness.

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johndh
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 4 - Beginning of the Revenge

Post by johndh » August 23rd, 2010, 5:17 am

If you beat the first scenario of DiD without summoning any undead, Malin does not get banished from Parthyn. He voluntarily follows the orcs for revenge. However, in this scenario, Malin remarks that the orcs will pay for getting him banished from Parthyn, regardless of the outcome of the first scenario. Basically, he's referring to a banishment that never happened in this timeline.

Difficulty: Challenging
Wesnoth version 1.8.3
It's spelled "definitely", not "definately". "Defiantly" is a different word entirely.

santosis
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 4 - Beginning of the Revenge

Post by santosis » October 14th, 2010, 12:21 am

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Challenging (medium) 1.8.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8 - The level 1 skeleton recruits were less than helpful, even with terrain bonuses in the mountains.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear, though I wasn't sure if I had to move my hero to the signpost.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
There was dialogue?

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
I sent all my leveled flying units to take out the south leader, and then moved them north to take out second wave from the northern orc. Eventually, I sent them north. My biggest challenge was keeping the two mages alive after my skeletons got cleaned out. Chances are I under-recruited.

I finished in round 30/36, with 277 gold. I'll carry 168 gold over to the next scenario.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8 - pretty fun and challenging.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
None.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Lost my leader once, had excruciatingly bad rolls once.

apogee
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 4 - Beginning of the Revenge

Post by apogee » November 6th, 2010, 9:14 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

middle difficulty ("challenging..?"); wesnoth 1.8.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

6

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

No problems.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

I like the commentary when you step onto the ice, although I had already seen an enemy drown before I stepped out onto the ice myself.


(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?


Well, luckily I had already amassed a great amount of decent ghosts / bats, but had I not, I wouldn't have been able to zerg rush the bottom orc base

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

6. The other stages thus far have been great; it just seems very sudden to whip out such high-level enemy units. Also, you can build skeletons, but fliers are at such an absurd advantage in this stage, there's next to no incentive to use anything except ghost relatives. The ice kill was a great touch, though.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Fix the skeleton drown bug (see below); shorten the path from your base to the river by about two turns.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Yes. I understand the code for stepping on ice probably just checks whether the mob is a flier or not, but I stuck a skeleton on the ice (because they have Submerge ability), and when the ice broke, the skeleton drowned. Pretty much what I came here to post,

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
N/A

Doopliss
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 4 - Beginning of the Revenge

Post by Doopliss » February 14th, 2011, 5:42 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Normal (Challenging) 1.8.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Perfectly clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Perfectly adequate.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Recklessness.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
4. Not much of note on the tactical or strategic scale., and Walking Corpses make any map feel longer.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I might change the title. "Proving Grounds" or "Winter Road", maybe?

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Failed an ultra-flamboyant assassination attempt.

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GagarinGambit
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 4 - Beginning of the Revenge

Post by GagarinGambit » February 26th, 2011, 5:03 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Hard, 1.8.4

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7, challenging to hard, see below.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
They're not clear enough, it seems that you have to complete only one of the objectives, not both as it seems at first.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
There's not much dialogue to comment on.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Keeping my experienced ghosts alive

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
9, another scenario I love. The map offers a number of possibilities, and the breaking ice event is a really good addition.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I really doubt it can get any better.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Failed leader assassination. I should explain: I decided to recruit/recall only ghosts because of their mobility and defence on ice. I had enough gold for 11 of them (8 ghosts, 2 shadows, 1 wraith). The 8 level 1 troops + my leaders moved in the frozen passage, intended to hold the enemy troops. The shadows and the wraith went for leader assassination; the point was to quickly kill the two leaders and get an early victory.
In theory it's perfect, but in practice it was a close call. The ghosts don't perform well against crossbowmen and pillagers, even on ice, so all 8 of them were eventually lost (however, because of the breaking ice effect, the leaders alone were enough to block the way). In addition, my assassination team was barely enough: a little bad luck and it fails, and if the leader gets a turn he probably takes down a shadow when I have no resources or spare ghosts to replace it. So failed assassination = reload. This plan would work like charm only if I had an extra shadow and enough gold to recruit a few more ghosts.
Linux. Space technology.

podbelski
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 4 - Beginning of the Revenge

Post by podbelski » June 30th, 2011, 10:12 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.9.6, Hard, 270gp, no reloads

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
first try seemed very tough, until I realized there is a breaking ice feature.
After replaying several times, I think it's like:
- 4 just to fight through enemies
- 5 to kill the leaders
- 8 to fight through enemies and to kill leaders w/o losing a ghost. It appeared to be tricky, especially when you are not very familiar with undead. A few times I've been surprizingly caught by a double-hit that killed my ghost, though I did not expect it b/c say didn't notice at night the damage will be just enough

had a lot of fun killing everyone by turn 24/36
0 losses, 22 kills

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
not losing a single ghost

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
"9", excellent, beautiful and a very fun map

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
managed to easily beat the orcs on my 2nd attempt, but spent too much gold on excessive troops. Then restarted about 5 times b/c wanted to play w/o giving the orcs a chance to kill my ghosts. Finally I managed to do it, but was in danger a couple of times, despite of an overall lucky attempt
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ayearhasgone
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 4 - Beginning of the Revenge

Post by ayearhasgone » September 29th, 2011, 6:07 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Medium, 1.9

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8. Pretty tough.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Interesting

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
This is a leader assassination scenario, nothing more, nothing less. Until I figured this out, I was getting nailed.

This is the point in the campaign where land forces become relatively insignificant IMO. Ghosts are the heart and soul of your army from here on out. At the very end of this campaign I was left with a small core of elite spectres and nightgaunts. Initially I viewed this as a failure of sorts, but since recalling costs just as much as recruiting a fresh ghost, there is little penalty for ghost recalls.

You are allowed to recruit skellies now, but don't do it! You won't survive. I had two assassination squads of two shadows + four fresh ghosts each. Malin and Darken hid in the mountains to the south. That was it.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7, quite interesting but can be frustrating

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
None

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Several failed assassination attempts.

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
n/a

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taptap
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 4 - Beginning of the Revenge

Post by taptap » November 7th, 2011, 2:07 am

I didn't believe this scenario is about leader assassination and I dislike splitting my forces, thus I didn't do it. Just neutralized the main force on the ice, with some losses (skeleton archer, bat, one ghoul I believe) and moved to the end of the level without killing any leaders. I prepared a leader kill once, but basically let him go again, because I didn't want to risk L2 units for some feat that wasn't even necessary. Even without trying to assassinate them, a warlord jumping out of his keep killed a near full health shadow in a single round 3/3 hits. I wonder how you do assassinations as a strategy with only two shadows per leader against 60%, it didn't convince me as a reliable strategy, as there is a good chance a leader manages to kill at least one shadow, after which he can dispose the second fast enough as well. I didn't manage to level a skeleton, because they had to stay behind for too long, but got the 1st spectre, the hero to L3, and much experience into the other L2 ghosts. Highest difficulty.
I am a Saurian Skirmisher: I'm a real pest, especially at night.

MetalRocks
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 4 - Beginning of the Revenge

Post by MetalRocks » February 15th, 2012, 10:12 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Difficulty: Medium with 285 starting gold
Version: 1.10.0

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
At least 8 because with a wrong approach it can be a quick way to lose. Needs a good strategical/tactical approach to gain exp and gold without risking too much.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
totally clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Interesting and consistent.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Finding a good strategy to hold the orcs in the Ice while my army gets there.
In a first attempt I played the leaders assasination with three shadows and 7 ghosts as the walkthrough proposes. The result was a dissaster. I think its a quick way to loose (or win if you are VERY lucky). You need to hit several times the leaders with your shadows and each time the orcish warlords have the chance to kill your shadow (regardless the troops they recruit). Also the terrain defence favours the leaders. Even an orcish grunt in forest terrain can make a stand against 3 shadows (neither more nor less) and two bats (he died after a wraith deathblow) as you can see in my replay (turn 18). The leaders assasination strategy is not convincing IMO and even if it works you miss the chance to get some exp (and you earn about the same amount of gold than with my strategy).
I tried a different approach in wich I could level up one shadow (almost got to be a nightgaunt) and a wraith, and also got a high exp skeleton and gave some exp to the mages with no big risks (lost only three bats I used as fodder and almost lost a shadow because of trying to kill the northern leader, but this was optional as I could have also reached the signpost in the same turn). All of this earning more than 400 gold in the next scenario. Finished in turn 19 killing both leaders, even though I didnt need to hurry too much as you only get 24 gold each turn you finish early and there are plenty of villages.
First I recruited 6 bats that proved to be very useful. Sent one to take villages and the other 5 to the Ice next to the bridge (I placed them around the fissure). This way they would hold the enemy army until reinforcements come. Also helped the enemy engages the bats during daylight (with weaker attacks), the fact that the bats drain life each time they hit (with 80% chance) and of course I didnt need to attack with them, but the breaking ice did the job (killed 7 enemy units at the cost of 3 bats). Just took care of replacing dead bats (so that enemy units dont move and die the next turn due to the ice crash) and wounded bats if they had a safe village to restore health. The bats are better than ghosts for this purpose because they are a lot cheaper, have better terrain protection and anyway, you dont want to attack (wich weakens your forces and weakening your enemy makes no sense because you just want to make a stand while they die for themselves). Later on I used the survivors to grab villages, to distract the enemies and as fodder.
My second recruitment was 4 skeletons and 2 skeleton archers (the archers werent of much use and it would probably have been better to recruit two ghouls in order to poison the enemy leaders). I sent these to the Ice position along with the leaders.
The third and last recall was three shadows, two ghosts and with my spare gold recruited a ghoul. Also sent them to the Ice.
Once my army got to the Ice on turn 8 I striked with force because it was night and the rest was easy. After I wiped out any resistance divided my troops in two in order to take both leaders (Malin went with the group to take the northern leader just in case I had to exit via the signpost).

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8. I liked the ice crash stuff.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
As many people here points out, the skeletons should not die with the ice crash.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Following the walkthrough first time trying the leader assasination strategy.

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
-
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Ninjuri
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 4 - Beginning of the Revenge

Post by Ninjuri » May 22nd, 2012, 6:19 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Normal 1.10.2
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
6
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
100%
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Good
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Beating the time limit. By the time i had killed the bottom orc leader, i measured exactly how many turns it would take to reach the signpost, 13, and i had 16 to spare. If my leader got bogged down for more than 3 turns somewhere, i would lose. I pushed the entire army without self preservation up wards and actually managed to kill the orc leader.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7. I like the twist with the ice and trying to figure out how to use it.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
A few spare turns.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
When i tried it the first time, i noticed that there was a break in the impassible mountains directly west of the starting camp. I thought the idea was to send some skeletons over there and sneak through the deep water for a surprise assassination on the orc leader. They took days getting over the mountains and the rest of my force was not large enough to hold the other direction while they were lollygagging over there. I saw this at about turn 6 and started from the beginning moving my whole army as one through the normal route instead. I guess my main flaw was over thinking strategy in this case.
Fate is against me.

Zlob
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 4 - Beginning of the Revenge

Post by Zlob » September 8th, 2012, 4:30 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
--- Summoner (difficult), 1.10.1
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
--- 6.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
--- After playing this scenario, I want to have you get to this sign without killing both orcs. It has to be quicker and easier than assasination of them, which you can easily accomplish with shadows.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
--- Nice.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
--- There wasn't any -> This thin ice feature is neat :D
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
--- 9.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
--- Change the objectives so that it fools noone.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
--- Yes. I "drowned in the frigid mountain waters." That's how I discovered how to defend myself better :D I want this weak ice feature in normal map so baadly :shock:
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Pewskeepski
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 4 - Beginning of the Revenge

Post by Pewskeepski » April 23rd, 2013, 4:48 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Summoner (Difficult), 1.11.2

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
There's not much, but what's there is excellent.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Eliminating Crossbowmen quickly became my highest priority. They can be very dangerous against both your ghosts and skeletons. I was also worried about the time limit, and retreated Malin from the southern enemy leader when I realized it was turn 13. Turns out, though, that I had a good amount of time to spare and killed the northern leader on turn 22.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8. My first idea was to use Shadows to assassinate the leaders. I was planning to kill off the southern leader right of the bat, but he recruited too many units and I didn't feel comfortable moving in with only a Shadow, Wraith, and a Ghost with almost full XP. Especially since Orcish Warlords can do a good amount of damage to the spirit kind at night. Plus he had backup.

So I decide the spirits were of better use at the frozen lake, where they could lure the orcs to their deaths beneath the ice. It ended up working really well. I did lose a Shadow but gained 2 more later.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Couldn't get much better in my opinion!

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Yes, I restarted from the beginning once after losing Malin, though even if he hadn't died I would've restarted anyway because I lost a lot of good units that round.

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
There are no comments about the code used to make the ice break.
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flammstrudel
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 4 - Beginning of the Revenge

Post by flammstrudel » May 5th, 2013, 3:55 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.10.2 Summoner (difficult) – no reloads

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5/10

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
It was okay.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
I went mass ghost and sent them south to kill the leader before the fire goblins from the north could arrive. My two necros camped middle, the AI split forces to focus them down, this bought my southern team time. Once I was done there I engaged the incoming orc blob on the ice. Major challenges were not losing to much to crossbowmen and fire goblins. After that it was just clean up duty.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8/10 Well designed map. Orc warriors falling through the ice was a nice idea.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Don't know.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
First attempt was successful.
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devavrata
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 4 - Beginning of the Revenge

Post by devavrata » May 6th, 2013, 5:09 pm

Content Feedback wrote:(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Battle for Wesnoth 1.8.3, Easy/Medium/Hard
Content Feedback wrote:(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7. It is possible to with without recruiting or recalling.
Content Feedback wrote:(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear, but Malin doesn't need to get to the signal in order to finish he scenario.
Content Feedback wrote:(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Clear.
Content Feedback wrote:(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The time is tight, specially on hard, specially playing with no recruits.
Content Feedback wrote:(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8
Content Feedback wrote:(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
It is quite fun as it is. Thin ice is a nice touch.
Content Feedback wrote:(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No
Content Feedback wrote:(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
-

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Maiklas3000
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 4 - Beginning of the Revenge

Post by Maiklas3000 » June 15th, 2014, 3:42 pm

(1) Level, version, and gold? Hard, 1.11.15, 289 starting gold.
(2) Difficult? (1-10) 7.
(3) Objectives? Clear.
(4) Dialog? Very good.
(5) Challenges? Killing the leaders and keeping your criticals alive are the main challenges. It's not difficult with the right strategy. I first tried a dual simultaneous assassination. One succeeded, the other failed, and ultimately I lost. So, I decided to do them in sequence. With a massive flock of Ghosts and a couple of Shadows, the closest leader fell easily, if not without risk to the Shadows. Then as my ghostly horde headed north, they picked off the enemy units along the way, gaining lots of XP. Meanwhile, four Vampire Bats grabbed villages and the enemy seemed unduly interested in running after my bats, hopelessly. This meant that the enemy never congealed a significant fighting squad, except for the six units that went after my leader and Darken Volk, who were protected by a chokepoint in the mountains. I had to divert two Vampire Bats, 2 Ghosts, and 2 Shadows to save my wounded leader and Darken Volk, but I had planned on that. Unfortunately, the kill of the final enemy leader went to my new Nightgaunt, which hit 3-for-3. There was only one other enemy unit left at that point.

I have updated the walkthrough to deemphasize assassination and increase the suggested strength of assassination squads.
(6) Fun? (1-10) 9.
(7) Changes? No changes necessary. I tested whether the ice would break for a ghost or vampire bat... it doesn't, so that's good. Probably skeletons still die, though, which I'm not sure makes sense.
(8) Restarts? I lost once, restarted from start, no save-reloads.
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