Scenario Review: SotBE 16 - Coward

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Scenario Review: SotBE 16 - Coward

Post by Content Feedback » March 12th, 2008, 10:52 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
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jbodnar
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 16 - Coward

Post by jbodnar » May 14th, 2008, 2:38 am

Mythological wrote:(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
The easiest one.
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
10 - unfinishable
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
10 - Perfectly clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Very clear and interesting
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
I started with the minimum amount of money (100) because due to the time limit and few villages in the previous scenario. While there are plenty of villages in this scenario my level one goblin riders couldn't stand up to the opponents level 2 units. I was able to capture about 26 villages and raise enough money to recall about 12 level 2 and 3 units. I tried sending them down the road to attack the enemy leader but they could never get there. The enemy could recruit way too many units. I then tried sending them down the east side of the map in a group but again there were too many enemy units. I've never been able to finish this scenario.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
3. It could be fun if it wasn't so hard on even the easiest level.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Make it so you can finish with more money in the previous scenario, raise the minimum starting amount for this scenario, reduce the amount of money the opponent starts with or make the road wider so you can send a group down it.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Not enough money or units to defeat the opponent.
(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
Don't know any.

Egosnemesis
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Joined: April 23rd, 2009, 10:54 am

Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 16 - Coward

Post by Egosnemesis » April 26th, 2009, 10:21 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
"Challenging" (the easiest) Wesnoth 1.6.1

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7. Mainly because I didn't want to spend too much gold (in anticipation of a sharp increase in difficulty later). I started this level with 972 gold, which was more than all three enemies combined (800). Everything was going well, although his goblin knights ended up killing most of my village taking wolves. I was heavily troll and the enemy recruited lots of everything. I tried to avoid the forest since they have a defensive advantage, but when I tried to level a few opportunistic trolls and got dragged into the fray and ended up having to recruit more than I wanted to.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
I like the dialogue very much.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Stated in (2), although I had enough gold to realistically bury him easily.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
9. Nice large front where I got to level a lot of units. I actually enjoyed this more because I didn't have a huge edge from recruiting, so it was a back and forth for a while.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Having the two small orcs around you makes the difficulty too random. Thankfully I was able to kill 1 with Gruu and Inarix and recruit that turn. If I didn't manage to kill either one and both were able to recruit, it would've been a much harder game. I think the map might be better if it wasn't so luck dependent in the beginning. Although I'm pretty happy with the current setup. (see (6))

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
N/A

Benefuchs
Posts: 54
Joined: February 24th, 2009, 9:40 pm

Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 16 - Coward

Post by Benefuchs » September 14th, 2009, 11:19 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
medium, 1.6

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5-6

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Standard: kill all enemies.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Nice, but in one of my attempts there was a bug: Kapo'e said his answering line (why there weren't many enemies) without being asked; maybe it's because the unit that should have asked died.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Well, it was not a question, if I could kill the enemy. The only question was, how many veterans would die.
My enemy had many more goblin knights than I could ever have (a wolf's lifespan is rather short in my army) and circled every unit that stepped forward. And he recruitet many slayers who poisoned my units and who could hardly be hit.
But whatever result, after ~12 turns, the battle was nearly over, so time was plenty.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6. challenging, as you have to think a lot where to put your lines.
As mentioned above, the randomness in the beginning can be annoying: Having badluck, you can recruit the first 3 units only in turn 3, diminishing your chances.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
see (6): change the start

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Loss of many veterans.

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
N/A

shadowblack
Posts: 368
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 16 - Coward

Post by shadowblack » August 17th, 2010, 9:42 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.8.4, Warrior (Difficult), i.e. (what I consider) Normal difficulty

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5 to 10+ depending on luck

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Fine

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
LUCK! For details see below.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
1 at first, goes up to 5 after the frustrating start

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Make it less dependent on luck. For details see below.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Yes: Bad Luck (see below)


This scenario is EXTREMELY luck-dependent! I started with Kapou’e, the troll and Inarix (I lost the loyal assassin in a previous scenario and forgot about him). So in theory I could kill both level 1 leaders on turn 1, which would save me a lot of trouble – IF I get extremely lucky with my attacks. But if I get really unlucky instead I kill neither leader, they both recruit, and I end up with 3 units against 14(!), which makes the scenario pretty much impossible. In most cases, though, I kill just one of the enemy leaders. And again luck becomes a huge factor: if I kill the leader with just the troll and Inarix I get to recruit on the first turn; if I have to use Kapou’e as well I can’t recruit on first turn, which gives the initiative to the enemy and makes the scenario harder.

To reduce the impact of luck either:
- give the player a few extra units to make sure at least one enemy leader will be killed on turn 1
OR
- just move those two idiots and their keeps someplace else and give the place a nearby empty keep
OR
- when the player kills one of the 2 nearby leaders the other runs away to another keep further away (for example the ruined keep to the south, in the swamp) and recruits units there instead of near the player
You are a Dark Adept: You immerse yourself in the dark arts... potentially with great rewards...

santosis
Posts: 74
Joined: October 11th, 2010, 12:04 am

Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 16 - Coward

Post by santosis » October 22nd, 2010, 1:07 am

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Difficult, 1.8.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7 - But I got very lucky, my troll hero 3/3 one of the two opening underbosses, so he didn't get to recruit at all.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Kill 'em all.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Fine. I expected big ugly to jump out at me at some point.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

I used a very similar strategy to last scenario, recruiting a wave of lvl 1 assassin-meat-shields, poisoning the entire enemy army, and then mopped them with my lvl 3s. I lost one lvl 3 archer, but lvl'd a few trolls to lvl 2. Not including Gruu, I have 4 lvl 3 trolls and an army of lvl 2 assassins.

I finished in round 15/32 with -21 gold and will start next scenario with 188 bonus gold. I think I could have sneaked a wolf rider south early to grab a bunch of villages. If I have trouble with finances in the next scenario, I'll replay this one. *After reading the other posts, I see how lucky I was to kill a leader (and mortally wound another) on the first turn. I won't replay unless completely necessary.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8 - Cool

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Good as is.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Yes. I lost one of my wolf riders to some loaded dice.

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tr0ll
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 16 - Coward

Post by tr0ll » November 7th, 2010, 5:54 am

had no problems killing one of the starting leaders and the second one a few turns later, and it was tense for a while with all the assassins poisoning everyone. i probably wasted more veteran units than necessary. overall still too easy on the easy setting though, i finished in half the turns.

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Maiklas3000
Posts: 532
Joined: June 23rd, 2010, 10:43 am

Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 16 - Coward

Post by Maiklas3000 » December 9th, 2010, 5:53 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Nightmare; 1.9.2; starting gold 564

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Okay.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Killing the two nearby leaders at start was tricky, with no starting keep. Then my huge line in the open was strained to the max and the enemy both flanked and broke my line. Then the enemy surprisingly retreated from the flank that he had flanked. I charged, seeing the opportunity to flank and kill several units. The enemy reflanked, killing several of my units, almost as if it had been a trap. Wow, not the usual entrench-and-let-AI-kill-itself scenario.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
9

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Could make start less subject to variance.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Couple losses of loyal assassin right near the start, restarting each time (no save reloads.)

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
Just one comment.
Attachments
SotBE-The_Coward_replay.gz
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Faello
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 16 - Coward

Post by Faello » May 3rd, 2011, 3:25 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

Nightmare (Warlord), 1.8.5, no saves/reloads, 522 starting gp

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

5.

Shan Taum forces under the command of warlord Orga (800gp) are supported by the 2 lvl1 commanders (2x100gp) in the keeps at the border of the map. Player is supposed to choose which of the keeps he prefers to take and kill one of the minor commanders during the first turn to capture the keep. Northern keep is the obvious choice. Aside from that, even considering the significant difference between the force size, it's much easier scenario, than the previous one. AI economy can be easily harassed and there's enough of good terrain around to beat the supposed-to-be-efficient Orga mix of lvl2 grunts, crossbowmen and ogres in one big but short defensive battle.

17 losses, 38 kills, finished 11 turns before the turn limit.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear, altough I don't know why I should be worried about death of my favoured sidekick-commanders Al'Brock and Flar'Tar - they're nowhere to be found in this scenario.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

It's ok, kind of predictable tho'.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

No major challanges, I just fed enemies with a bunch of lvl1's and slayed them quickly when they were fatigued aready.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

7. It's typical (in positive way) scenario.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

No changes required. Some scenarios have to be like that - ordinary. Otherwise the rest wouldn't be exceptional.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

No, passed it on the first trial.

Replay attached:
Attachments
SotBE-The_Coward_replay.gz
Coward replay, Nightmare (Warlord) difficulty level, 1.8.5, no saves/reloads
(60.21 KiB) Downloaded 229 times
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and smiles as the puppets dance
in the court of the Crimson King.

cph
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 16 - Coward

Post by cph » June 14th, 2011, 8:10 pm

(1) Warrior, 1.8.5.
(2) 4; apart from one unlucky loss of my leader, completed with only a couple of unintended casualties (L1) and no major problems.
(3) Clear.
(4) Okay; although some of the dialogue seemed unorcish. "........" for instance; a simple "What?!" would be better I think. But I have felt this several times in the campaign so it may just be that my idea of orcs is a little different from the designer's, in which case ignore me :-)

(5) My saurians in the swamp got a bit unlucky at times so I had to recruit more than I planned. Apart from that no major issues; the terrain is very good for defence and, faced with my L3s, the AI did not even want to attack with some of his units.

With hindsight I would have tried harder to sneak scouts around the edges of the battlefield to grab villages earlier. I reloaded and replayed the last 6 moves or so to see if I could eek out any more bonus at the end (I started this level with 720 gold, carried 555 into the next one), but could not improve much.

I got ambitious at the start and attacked both nearby keeps; I got away with it, but that cost me an extra turn before I started recruiting.

(6) 5
(7) Not having a keep at the start in this level feels very arbitrary — there was nothing to explain why. While it is a good twist for a level to have, I feel it ought to have some sort of plot reason. Maybe you could use something like the Laurence of Arabia plot: Kapou'e arrives across the snow, with his forces strung out behind him, so only a few troops to his command with him; he needs to suppress/impress the orc tribes nearby so they will join him to supplement his force (and because they would otherwise prevent the rest of his army arriving).

(8) I got unlucky and lost Kapou'e on the first try.

line
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 16 - Coward

Post by line » September 25th, 2012, 7:28 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Warlord (Nightmare) 1.10.3
467 starting gold, enemies: 800/100/100
Finished turn 17/28

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4. Winning is easy, not to lose a unit is quite harder, as you’ll have only 40% defense, if you position your defensive line behind the ice. I started quite bad (couldn’t kill and recruit in the first round). Again some about-to-level units helped a lot to establish and hold the lines.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
As said before, the losing condition should be reworked. The death of Al’Brock and Flar’Tar is not about to happen, as they’re not taking part in the battle.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Meeting Shan Taum again (as like in Shan Taum The Smug) changes Kapou’e’s rhetoric. Too much talking like “congratulations on your list of accomplishments” instead of “stab, smite, slay”. Not even an attempt to convince Shan’s men of their leader’s betrayal to avoid further losses.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
It’s again to survive attacks from 3 hexes. Ogres are hard to kill.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6. Even though I lost a unit, I didn’t restart, but I guess due to countless restarts of Civil War I was simply happy with passing this one at once. This scenario is mostly luring the enemy on ice with the AI stupid enough to do so.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Less aggressive AI.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
None.
Attachments
SotBE-The_Coward_replay.gz
(58.34 KiB) Downloaded 201 times

SBak
Posts: 78
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 16 - Coward

Post by SBak » September 28th, 2013, 3:58 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Challenging (easiest) 1.8.5 and 1.10.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
Between 8 and 10, depending on the opening.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Interesting enough.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The 'weighted' beginning. The scenario starts with three leaders - west, north and south. If I've got this far in the campaign I'm coming into this scenario with a level 3 Kapou'e, Gruu at level3, Jetto is an Orcish Slayer, and Inarix is at least a level2 Ambusher. Both the northern and southern leaders are essentially level 1 Orcish Grunts. I have no starting keep. So okay, I miss a turn to get a keep.

Only it rarely works out this way. This is a bit like the Saving Inarix scenario with the level 1 Elvish Fighters who survive combined attacks from level 3 Troll Warriors and Orcish Warlords intact. Only here you have an level 1 Orcish Grunt which can survive enough combined attacks to have the enemy in your face even before you've had the chance to recruit anything. Furthermore by strange coincidence Kapou'e, Gruu, Jetto and Inarix all prove to be unlucky and take signficant damage.

Therefore I've found that getting anywhere in this scenario relies on a significant lucky streak shared by all your best units repeatedly over the first three or four turns. My choice is probably the obvious one, go south towards the marshes, recall your three highest and most consistent units and push back the northern forces back towards the patches of snow whilst recalling Saurians.

I've found that, also consistently, recalling Saurians is essential to winning this particular scenario. For some reason the enemy doesn't take them seriously and concentrates on your Orcs and Trolls. Of course when you get closer to the western enemy keep one or two Assassins or Pillagers will come down and either slow or poison a couple of your Saurians, but generally when that happens my Saurians are too far west and usually the problem that the enemy never really paid much attention to.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
2 - and this is only on account of the Saurians taking part in the scenario. Having to persistently make repeated attempts and rely on luck to start a scenario isn't my idea of fun. This is a good campaign and it's challenging as stated at the beginning, but there's no getting away from the fact that this scenario in its present form stinks.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
If you want an initial challenge then why not just have two Orcish Warlords as northern and southern leaders and have done with it? What is the point of this so obviously 'weighted' start?

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Yes - facing a Dwarvish Lord disguised as a level 1 Orcish Grunt.

Theron
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 16 - Coward

Post by Theron » May 15th, 2014, 3:28 pm

Nightmare; 1.11.13

Stats:
Scenario, starting gold (default+carryover),turns/max turns,recruits-recalls-advancements-losses-kills
16 200+2 19/22 0-9-2-0-53

Comments:
Scenario 16:
Dialog: Orga’s „Yes, Sir“ is inappropriate for Orcs.
I used a somewhat cheesy tactic as an open field battle was a no-go (202 vs. 1100 gold).
Having a wolf strike force is helpful but maybe not needed.
A must are units who are able to tank (best are Orcish Warlords).
Orcish Slayers are very dangerous.
I reloaded on turn 9 to make sure one of them dies.
I should have recalled another Warlord (on turn 6) for defense rotation.
Attachments
SotBE-The_Coward_replay.gz
(66.45 KiB) Downloaded 143 times

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Maiklas3000
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 16 - Coward

Post by Maiklas3000 » May 16th, 2014, 9:01 am

(1) Level, version, gold? Nightmare, 1.11.13, minimum gold (200).
(2) Difficult? (1-10) 9.
(3) Clear? Clear.
(4) Dialog? Good. By now I understand the earlier dialog where Shan Taum was cowardly.
(5) Challenges? Walking dead. I poisoned a bunch of the enemy, and they ran around with 1 hitpoint until turn 10 when they all attacked Gruu at night.
(6) Fun? (1-10) 8. Pretty fun, one point deducted for anticlimatic finish.
(7) Changes? Maybe bodyguards for the southwest leader.
(8) Restarts? Numerous save-reloads on turn 10 to save Gruu.
(9) WML? There are no comments.
Attachments
SotBE-The_Coward_replay.gz
(73.84 KiB) Downloaded 157 times

podbelski
Posts: 151
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 16 - Coward

Post by podbelski » July 28th, 2014, 8:28 am

1.11.15, medium difficulty, more than 300gp b/c I edited the prev scenario

1) the camp location looks odd b/c the map border is too close... why I'm not given at least a few hexes more to the east? Is it a world edge there? :)
It's a Spring scenario, expand the map border few hexes to the east, filling the right side behind the camp with partially frost river

2) once again the plot does not conform to the map. It's Kapou'e came here to siege Shan Taum, so why do I have to break off the overwhelming forces attack in the tiny camp, and then march through the clean map? In addition, this way the whole map is mostly "unused"...

so overall I expect this: Kapou'e has just crossed the river, broken a small camp but was immediately attacked by closest leaders forces. Kapoue has really small starting gold (just part of his forces has crossed the river).
Several turns later, when first battle mostly over, the main orc receives a big gold boost and spams Shan Taum's horde, you meet this wave on your way to Shan Taum keep. Kapoue gets gold boost as well - the rest of his army crosses the river

upd: as is, the scenario might be almost impossible to win with minimum gold... with 300 gp it was like 8/10 difficulty to win w/o unacceptable losses

upd2: you can spawn few small orc groups from the top and bottom of the map in the middle-end of the scenario. It's like Shan Taum forces are coming to aid the defence from surrounding lands

upd3: I also like the bodyguards that Maiklas suggested

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