Scenario Review: SotBE 11 - Clash of Armies

Feedback for the mainline campaign Son of the Black Eye.

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SBak
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 11 - Clash of Armies

Post by SBak » September 22nd, 2013, 8:57 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Challenging (easiest) 1..5 and 1.10.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
I'm giving this a 6 or 7 because while it's really not that tough a scenario (I mean the majority of the enemy attacks you from just three hexes) it's not as simple or straightforward a scenario as it looks when you first start playing it.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
I think it's pretty clear that you've just got to survive whatever the AI throws at you.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Still quality storytelling.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Dealing with mermen - I never have enough gold or lvl3 units to place them on the shores. In 1.8.5 they would attack my units on the bridge from the water which of course deals damage, but level 3 units can give damage back. But in 1.10.5 they attack you on the shores where I tend to have lvl2 and lvl1 units and you're left with the choice of having good terrain and dealing with a merman in the water or bad terrain and dealing with a merman on land.

The Loyalist ferry service (in 1.10.5) where you've hardly any chance to attack the ship in water (as in Black Flag) and having the ships spew out units together like Red Mages, Pikemen, and Fencers (Fencers aren't that difficult, I just find them annoying, like Footpads and Bats). For some reason you only get one hex in the water to attack the ships from, but have to deal 50HP damage to take the ship out, and while most lvl3 Northerners can theoretically deal that sort of damage, I'm finding that you need good luck to do that sort of damage with one unit in one attack. When I first played this scenario in 1.10.5 I saw the ships but didn't pay much attention until I saw units disappearing into one and it coming across the river.

The Gryphons weren't so much of a problem as the other 'heavy hitters' - Bandits, Red Mages, Pikemen and Elvish Captains, as you can place an Orcish Crossbowmen in front of some Trolls and the Gryphon will home in on the Crossbowman.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6 - I'm well aware that the AI usually does what it can to wrongfoot you and smash you into defeat so I find this scenario quite stressful and rather messy. I try not to, but usually end up spending lots of gold and having lots of casualties. There's usually a lot of wounded Troll Whelps gathered round the healer(s) or other wounded units singing 'If I had a hammer.' The scenario also usually ends with enemy units about to take the bridge or capture a village.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Oh please don't. I'm quite happy that the Dwarvish leader sends Dwarvish Thunderers as its primary ranged unit (some singing Phil Collins' hit 'I Missed Again') rather than Trappers and Outlaws.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Yes.
1. Running out of gold.
2. Boatloads of units (not a defeat but a restart and reorganization).
3. Gegwyn the heroic Longbowman who managed to retain a village on the shore with only 4HP against a Troll, Orcish Warrior and two Orcish Crossbowmen.

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Maiklas3000
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 11 - Clash of Armies

Post by Maiklas3000 » April 29th, 2014, 10:05 am

(1) Level, version, and gold? Nightmare, 1.11.12, 268 starting gold.
(2) Difficult? (1-10) 6, suffers from predictability.
(3) Clear? Clear.
(4) Dialog? Very good.
(5) Challenges? Aside from an occasional unit loss, the scenario is not very challenging, but you can use it to fill out any gaps in your roster. To deal with the Mermen, send a task force to each side, each composed of 2 Whelps, 1 Crossbowman, 1 Slayer, and one more unit like Inarix or a Grunt. Lure the Mermen into sand. You will need a few more units when the ships unload. For the center, you need high HP units with an Auger or Soothsayer in the middle. My healthy Warlord was killed in one round, and so I lost my Auger too, but fortunately I had a backup Auger, who was able to level to Soothsayer.
(6) Fun? (1-10) 7, suffers from repetivity, even within a single play.
(7) Changes? Make it less predictable. You could have the Mermen start in groups of 2-4, randomly (or hard coded), with their initial positions more random. One idea I had was to make the Mermen non-aggressive, either always or at night or until their numbers are augmented with a second wave of Mermen. If the Mermen were staying out in deep water until they had a critical mass and then charging in at day, it would make them a lot more difficult to deal with. Alternatively, you could have the Mermen ignore shore forces and attack the river fortress, maybe on the second wave to fake out the player. Finally, the scenario is such an XP-fest that an anemic roster could be made solid. I think that detracts a bit from the nature of a campaign. For example, I started the scenario with 1 Warlord, lost 2, but ended with 6 Warlords! Consider reducing gold on both sides.
(8) Reloads? No save reloads, but I did replay from start to resurrect a loyal Slayer.
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Theron
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 11 - Clash of Armies

Post by Theron » May 10th, 2014, 8:37 am

Nightmare; 1.11.13

Stats:
Scenario, starting gold (default+carryover),turns/max turns,recruits-recalls-advancements-losses-kills
11 200+60 25/24 0-11-6-1-76

Comments:
Scenario 11:
My first go at the scenario was like in the past (ending with no carryover gold). But now I have to compensate for less gold in the next scenario (me 300 + ally 200 + ally 200 = 700 has been reduced to 250 + 125 + 125 = 500). So I restarted with the goal of getting as much carryover gold as possible.
„Controlling“ who will attack (or not attack) whom at the bridge is key to minimize unit count for rotation.
I managed to take out 3 of 4 Transports! This made the shore defense less hectic.
One reload on turn 14: After doing my eastern moves first I decided to undo and start with the others. Then I forgot to redo Jetto’s move which allowed the Transport to unload.
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podbelski
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 11 - Clash of Armies

Post by podbelski » July 11th, 2014, 5:27 pm

1.11.15, medium difficulty

7-to-8 out of 10 perceived difficulty, I knew what to expect. I should have spent less gold for flank recruitment if I knew the next scenario will require all the gold I can get.

This map is great and very fun but becomes monotone in the second half, thus replaying it for gold might become boring...
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sine_nomine
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Joined: April 30th, 2016, 11:34 pm

Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 11 - Clash of Armies

Post by sine_nomine » May 2nd, 2016, 12:40 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Nightmare 1.12.4

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4, but I don't think the boats were working properly and I shamelessly cheesed the center part
269 starting gold

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Good

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The only dangerous part came at the very end when a boat caught me off guard and I totally screwed up by killing a scout and ruining the center wall (I could have delayed the enemy until the end of the chapter using ZOC even without a third unit). In theory I would need a lot of units in this chapter to scramble and protect against boatloads of loyalists but for some reason only a total of three groups got delivered.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
5 due to issues. In theory this map looks like it would be fun.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
First of all, I completely abused the fact that enemy units were unwilling to attack my units if said attack would not kill my unit and instead cause it to level. I placed two troll whelps with 35/36 exp on the bridge and they were not attacked at all. I had one more troll whelp to complete the wall and he only got attacked by an elvish scout's ranged attack so he recovered off any damage. You could avoid this situation by making enemies more aggressive or something. However, I think the main issue is the boats. Maybe it was because there were so many enemy units clustered in that area but I think the boats got stuck; only three boatloads were transported.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
One trial run to figure out the chapter. Next run went fine, but I overrecruited so I restarted again.
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zookeeper
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 11 - Clash of Armies

Post by zookeeper » May 2nd, 2016, 1:30 pm

sine_nomine wrote:However, I think the main issue is the boats. Maybe it was because there were so many enemy units clustered in that area but I think the boats got stuck; only three boatloads were transported.
After much befuddlement, I did manage to find the problem. :hmm: Basically, the scripted movement of one of the ships returning to dock fails (because there's other units blocking it, probably because of crowding due to the troll bottleneck), which causes the AI to cease performing any scripted movements that turn, causing the other ships to just sit still. Will be fixed one way or another, but luckily in this case the problem ought to be a very rare occurrence.

sine_nomine
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 11 - Clash of Armies

Post by sine_nomine » May 3rd, 2016, 12:39 pm

Good to see you figured it out.

I just remembered one more thing that puzzled me: at the end of the chapter, a bunch of units show up as the "horde". Many of those units are added to the recall list but not all of them. E.g. I don't think any orcish slayers were available for recall after this, but there were a couple new orcish warlords.

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zookeeper
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 11 - Clash of Armies

Post by zookeeper » May 3rd, 2016, 8:24 pm

sine_nomine wrote:I just remembered one more thing that puzzled me: at the end of the chapter, a bunch of units show up as the "horde". Many of those units are added to the recall list but not all of them. E.g. I don't think any orcish slayers were available for recall after this, but there were a couple new orcish warlords.
Good catch, that's another bug. While all the other prop units that appear are prevented from remaining on your recall list, a little oversight meant that it didn't apply to the two warlords. It's been fixed now.

mattsc
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 11 - Clash of Armies

Post by mattsc » May 9th, 2016, 7:54 pm

zookeeper wrote:
sine_nomine wrote:However, I think the main issue is the boats. Maybe it was because there were so many enemy units clustered in that area but I think the boats got stuck; only three boatloads were transported.
After much befuddlement, I did manage to find the problem. :hmm: Basically, the scripted movement of one of the ships returning to dock fails (because there's other units blocking it, probably because of crowding due to the troll bottleneck), which causes the AI to cease performing any scripted movements that turn, causing the other ships to just sit still.
For reference, this is now fixed in both 1.12 and 1.13

sine_nomine: Thanks for alerting us to this problem.

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