Scenario Review: SotBE 9 - Shan Taum the Smug

Feedback for the mainline campaign Son of the Black Eye.

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SBak
Posts: 78
Joined: October 8th, 2011, 1:36 am

Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 9 - Shan Taum the Smug

Post by SBak »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Challenging (easiest) 1.8.5 and 1.10.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5 - it's not a difficult scenario compared with some of the others - for example The Siege of Barag Gor - but I guess the challenge comes in getting enough XP to enough lower level units in preparation for Prestim.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
This is really well developed. The Northerners are characteristized as a warrior-like faction and this scenario illustrates that even when there's peace with other factions there's not necessary peace in the North. This is a much better, mature jibe from an arrogant leader and you even get a bit of pacifism from the Orcish hippies (Shamen) at the end.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
As a player this is an important scenario because beyond this your level 1 units I find become more cannon fodder and spam and it's harder to level them up.

For me as a player relatively inexperienced with Northerners playing against the AI who tends to play Northerners really well can be a challenge.

Getting control of the river of course is obvious and a bit of no brainer, because you have your enemy fighting out of water, but populating it isn't that straightforward because you lose a trait with your initial units who need to be quick.

I've also found that it's not erough for a guaranteed or efficient win and tend to also send Wolf Riders north east up into the snow for a dog fight which often gets quite scrappy. This tends to stop the AI's doggies from capturing villages and getting round your lines from the south.

Oh and ogres - they're actually quite tough and can do a lot of damage if they get on the hills west of the river. They're also quite good at hacking an Assassin to bits in a counter attack.

Also since Black Flag I'm noticing that some of my recalls have stopped being chaotic. This may be inconsistency or sheer coincidence but I have had two Orcish Warriors and a Troll who miss more at night but hit everything at dawn and during the day.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
9 - Even though it's a fight between units of the same faction and you can't get through this without incurring damage and loss (unless you're someone playing wih units on a higher level) I enjoy playing Northerner v. Northerner battles more than any other faction.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Is there a way you can change the audio of Wolf Riders when they fight other Wolf Riders? I noticed the audio of the Wolf Riders changed somewhere between 1.8.5 and 1.10.5 when it went from growling/snarls (and howls when they died) to a sound I just can't describe. Wolf Riders don't have that strong an attack so it can take some time for a Wolf Rider to kill another Wolf Rider and when you've got a bunch of them duking it out it sounds something like an orgy.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Yes. Wolf Riders getting behind my lines while Ogres break through in the middle onto the hills to be followed by a gang of Orcish Warriors which after a sally of level 1 units became Warlords and it all went downhill from there.
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Maiklas3000
Posts: 532
Joined: June 23rd, 2010, 10:43 am

Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 9 - Shan Taum the Smug

Post by Maiklas3000 »

(1) Level and version? Nightmare, 1.11.12, minimum starting gold (200)
(2) Difficult? (1-10) 7, because I won the first time but with significant casualties.
(3) Clear? Clear.
(4) Dialog? Okay. Shan Taum's groveling felt out of place.
(5) Challenges? This is one of those scenarios where you think, "OMG, I am down to my last units. Oh wait, so is the enemy." And then you prevail. I think it's just the right amount of stress, especially after the previous extremely challenging scenario. At the end, I had Shan Taum surrounded by L3 trolls, at night, in open ground, and I hesitated... Can I take him? I decided I could, if they all piled on him. However, the first L3 troll completely whiffed, got mangled, and I aborted the rest of the attacks, so he died at Shan Taum's hands. I guess I should have followed through with the rest of the attacks (except Gruu), since Shan Taum could only take out one of my units. Anyway, I was able to take him down the next turn with the help of ranged reinforcements.
(6) Fun? (1-10) 8
(7) Changes? None needed.
(8) Restarts? No.
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Theron
Posts: 137
Joined: May 13th, 2008, 10:49 am

Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 9 - Shan Taum the Smug

Post by Theron »

Nightmare; 1.11.13

Stats:
Scenario, starting gold (default+carryover),turns/max turns,recruits-recalls-advancements-losses-kills
9 200+0 17/20 4-8-2-1-32

Comments:
Scenario 9:
The survive-20-turns objective is still a joke.
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Whiskeyjack
Posts: 476
Joined: February 7th, 2015, 1:27 am
Location: Germany

Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 9 - Shan Taum the Smug

Post by Whiskeyjack »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.12.4 easy.
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
very good, but there is a small mistake:
In the win dialogue Pirk says the following:
Pirk wrote:Leave your people here Kapou´e - they are safe for the moment - and go defend Prestim. [...] and give you the leadership on it.
Kapou´e already left his people behind at Barag Gor some scenarios earlier because he wanted to get faster to the councilmembers at Tirigaz. And the populace at Tirigaz left with the councilmembers which I meet upon winning. There were only warriors remaining at Tirigaz, therefore Kapou´e should not have any folks left to leave behind.
Also about the last sentence: Shouldn´t this be "over it"?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Correct the above mentioned mistake ;) (shortening the first sentence to "Go and defend Prestim, Kapou´e." should be enough)
Under blood-red skies, an old man sits
In the ruins of Carthage - contemplating prophecy.
sine_nomine
Posts: 39
Joined: April 30th, 2016, 11:34 pm

Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 9 - Shan Taum the Smug

Post by sine_nomine »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Nightmare 1.12.4

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7
200 starting gold (minimum)

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
OK

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Lots of enemy units. Once I figured out they were willing to suicide attack my units, I managed to get lots of kills on the enemy's turn.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Nothing

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
One restart. On my first attempt I didn't recall enough strong units, so I didn't deal enough damage on the enemy's turn and my line eventually crumbled.
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LordWolfDan
Posts: 216
Joined: September 30th, 2018, 7:31 am

Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 9 - Shan Taum the Smug

Post by LordWolfDan »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

- 1.14.5, Challenging

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

- 5

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

- Pretty clear, I wasted him (not actually, as he isn't really killed here)

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

- Pretty good, explains the orcish rivalry and Shan Taum as a really formidable foe. Plus the battle at Prestim seems like it's going to be tough one!

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

- Making sure to fight the leveled foes off

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

- 7

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

- Give the chance to Shan Taum to recruit lvl 2 orcs only

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

- No
Konrad2
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Posts: 3330
Joined: November 24th, 2010, 6:30 pm

Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 9 - Shan Taum the Smug

Post by Konrad2 »

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

1.15.1, Warlord (Nightmare), 200g

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

6

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

So I defeat Shan Taum and he literally results me while surrendering. Is he really that much of an idiot?

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Warding off the lvl 2s.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

6

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Give Shan Taum a better line when he is defeated.

Scenario stats:
Spoiler:
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mal_shubertal
Posts: 93
Joined: December 1st, 2018, 6:58 pm

Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 9 - Shan Taum the Smug

Post by mal_shubertal »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.16.6 Nightmare
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5. Easy enough to beat, but challenging to get through without losing too many high level units, and with leveling up some new units.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
very
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Shan Taum is, indeed, quite smug, and I love it. Both at the start, "what would you drink out of it, mint cordial?", and hilariously at the end, "I surrender to you, little earthworm!".
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Figuring out the correct defensive lines. I initially tried to line my units up precisely along the river bank, but it bends so much that it exposed several of my units to attacks from 3 directions, and I kept losing lvl 3 trolls in those positions because the AI is so suicidally agressive. So I had to set up completely straight line that allowed them to cross the river a bit on the north side, but allowed me to get through the level only losing a single lvl 3 troll and leveling up a bunch of whelps to lvl 2.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6. The map is complicated and interesting, the dialogue is great, fighting against northerners is a nice change from all the elves.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Both sides are northerners, but the glaring difference is that shan taum lacks trolls, and instead has ogres. That is a very poor substitution, due to lack of regeneration and resistances. I went with a mon-troll strategy, all of my leveled trolls and a bunch of whelps, and shan taum had no counter for that. I think that changing Shan Taum's recruit list would make things better. Either give him his own trolls instead of ogres, or have him recruit goblin pillagers instead of ordinary wolf riders. He recruited a bunch of lvl 1 wolf riders as it is, and almost all of them died by just pointlessly suicide attacking into high level trolls. A bunch of slow and fire attacks would have given my troll strategy a lot of trouble.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
I restarted a few times because I lost too many high level units.
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