Scenario Review: SotBE 9 - Shan Taum the Smug

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Scenario Review: SotBE 9 - Shan Taum the Smug

Post by Content Feedback » March 12th, 2008, 10:43 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
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Turuk
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 9 - Shan Taum the Smug

Post by Turuk » January 14th, 2009, 11:08 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Warlord (Nightmare) 1.5.7

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
3. While Shan Taum does indeed recruit a large number of units, most of them are level 1 with a few level 2 Orcish Crossbows and Ogres. Needless to say my level 3 army wiped the floor with them. Just drew them into my battle line and killed 3-4 at a time.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Crystal.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Same quality as the rest of the campaign. Very well done.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
None.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7. Despite the lack of difficulty, I enjoyed the map and the dialogue. The plethora of villages is never a bad thing either.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Potentially a few more leveled enemies, but just a thought.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Nope.

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
Looks good to me.
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Egosnemesis
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 9 - Shan Taum the Smug

Post by Egosnemesis » April 23rd, 2009, 11:49 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
The easiest, "Challenging". Played on Wesnoth 1.6.1

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
6. Sham Taum has a lot of villages at the start, and I had the same amount of gold as him carried over so it was a fairly even match. (considering level 2 orc units cost more than the 20 I had to pay for recall).

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Fleshed out the character of Shan Taum and builds up a rivalry of sorts. Well done.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
It's impossible to not lose any veteran units on this level. While you can hold the hills west of the river and catch most of the enemy in the water, they still hit hard at night and you will lose some veterans. Turik mentioned that they were mostly level 1. When I played, I recall them being almost exclusively level 2 units. Maybe that's just chance.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8. Favorite level so far. Orc on Orc, bloodthirsty fighting with large numbers of troops. Good fun.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
None

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
N/A

silent
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 9 - Shan Taum the Smug

Post by silent » April 24th, 2009, 2:01 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
difficult (orcish warrior) 1.6
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5. Shan Taum may have more money and lots of level 2 units, and costed me veterans I'd normally be very annoyed about losing, but as the AI, he is a complete moron, leading countless units to slaughter, and i found it possible to level a few level 1 units. Also, in 1.6 it seems only wolf riders are level 1, the rest are level 2. My own rider snuck around stealing villages making for good gold, and LV3 Kapou'e
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear. But it's far more fun to wipe the floor with that smug scum
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Really good dialogue, this is really the only scenario other than the third one of the dark hordes where I've actually seen orcs fight other orcs, which makes the whole rivalry between clans/groups thing make sense
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Trying not to care about the loss of veteran units
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8. Bloody slaughter is always great, even if the AI is completely stupid
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Maybe a little more gold for shan taum. Gruu seems to kill everything so easily
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Only trying to level a grunt to replace a lost warlord, a turn at most
(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
Can't comment

Arnaudus
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 9 - Shan Taum the Smug

Post by Arnaudus » July 25th, 2009, 6:18 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

Challenging (the easiest one), 1.7.1

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

4. When I saw him recruiting, I though I may have a hard time, but actually, it's so easy to use terrain advantage that I could kill the whole army passively.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Crush this guy. Misunderstanding is unlikely.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Quite convincing. I somehow regretted not to have more control on the acts of Kapoue. It's very clear that this battle is stupid, but there is no way to step out. I could imagine this scenario as something that could be skipped, either you decide to fight this stupid guy and get experience, either you don't fight and you the shaman council decide that you are very wise and you have a bonus. It's a bit frustrating to have to deal with such a brainless leader :-)

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

I could not find any.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

6. Easy, but crushing enemies stuck in a river is always fun :-)

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Make the terrain a bit more even. And the AI should be more defensive, although this cannot be fixed just for this scenario.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

No.

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?

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Benefuchs
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 9 - Shan Taum the Smug

Post by Benefuchs » August 30th, 2009, 9:28 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
medium, 1.6

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2-3

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
crystal.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
again realistically orcish (But why do these orcs have to be so stupid?!)

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
well, as said before, loss of one or two veterans against three L2s seems inevitable.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
5, a bit too static.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Maybe one more bridge? Of course, a cleverer AI would make it more fun.
Maybe L2 wolves for Shan Taum?

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
no.

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
N/A

shadowblack
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 9 - Shan Taum the Smug

Post by shadowblack » July 17th, 2010, 2:47 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.8.3, Warrior (Difficult), i.e. (what I consider) Normal difficulty

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4 if you want to avoid losing veteran units, otherwise 1 (2 at most)

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Nice.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Not losing any veteran units.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7 – I enjoyed crashing the smug idiot. Killing him with a level 1 Archer was just the icing on the cake.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I think it is fine as it is (at least on this difficulty).

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
I loaded a few times due to bad positioning of my troops, but that was entirely my fault.
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santosis
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 9 - Shan Taum the Smug

Post by santosis » October 20th, 2010, 4:30 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Difficult, 1.8.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5 - Took me 3 tries to get it right. Well-balanced, if I am supposed to win. Too easy if this is supposed to wreck my recall list.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Gives the player a clear choice. On difficult, I can't imagine simply trying to survive.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
The dialogue could likely be improved.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

First try I sent my trolls north around the mountains for a sneak attack. But I took heavy losses on the eastern front. Second try, same thing, although I tried sending more troops to the front.

Third try I sent the trolls north to flank the eastern front. I lost one level 3 troll, but utterly smashed the opponent. I think I lost a lvl 1 meatshield, but otherwise came out unscathed. I sent a lvl 3 wolfrider south to claim all the villages, he took out an assassin and a lvl 2 warrior.

I finished in round 14/20 with 74 gold and will bring 108 gold into the next scenario.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
9 - I really enjoyed this one--although I took a few tries, I never felt overwhelmed. A few sacrifices to hold the riverbank, and it was all over.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Probably good as is.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Getting troops coordinated around the river.

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Maiklas3000
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 9 - Shan Taum the Smug

Post by Maiklas3000 » December 2nd, 2010, 9:44 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Nightmare; 1.9.2; 398 starting gold

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
6

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Very good.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
It's hard to maintain a line. And if the enemy recruits a lot of wolves, he may get over the river en masse.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Move the river east or the enemy base west. It's too easy to just pick them off in the water, which is a boring tactic we have seen too often. And/or increase enemy recruitment of wolves. Even better, program the enemy to refuse to set foot in the river! That would surprise a lot of players and require novel strategy.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Lost once due to death of Shaman, restarted from start.

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
How much you want to bet there are no comments?
Attachments
SotBE-Shan_Taum_the_Smug_replay.gz
(41.86 KiB) Downloaded 309 times

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Faello
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 9 - Shan Taum the Smug

Post by Faello » April 29th, 2011, 3:11 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

Nightmare (Warlord), 1.8.5, no saves/reloads, 381 gold at the beginning of the scenario

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

6.

Shan Taum's army consists of lvl2's core (orcish warriors, some ogres and crossbowmen) supported by lvl1 auxiliary attackers (assasins, wolves). It's a strong force, but if player will defend properly and has done well in the previous scenario, it should be a medium level difficulty battle. Player has to play carefully to not lose his loyal and veteran units, which is probably the greatest challange in this scenario.

3 losses, 31 kills in this one, enemy forces destroyed 5 turns before the turn limit.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Crystal clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

It was interesting. More scenarios in this campaign should have such amount of dialogue.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Keeping my veterans alive.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

8.

It's very good defensive scenario, that shows the advantage of holding good terrain well.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?


No changes are required, it's very good as it is.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

2 restarts - both because of a sloppy use of Kapou'e and shaman connected with poor RNG that lead to their death.

Replay attached:
Attachments
SotBE-Shan_Taum_The_Smug_replay.gz
Shan Taum the Smug replay, Nightmare (Warlord) difficulty level, no saves/reloads
(34.49 KiB) Downloaded 281 times
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cph
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 9 - Shan Taum the Smug

Post by cph » June 6th, 2011, 8:58 pm

1) Warrior, 1.8.5 .
2) 6, but only because I'm an idiot and was trying to actually use the shamans. Probably a 3 otherwise.
3) Clear
4) Hmm. The dialogue starts good, but I thought "Mint cordial" was a strange reference for a stupid orc to make. And, although the initial dialogue is good, once it was done the scenario still felt rather generic.
5) I'm an idiot and did not realise that the shamans could not level up until now. So I've been using them and trying to give them XP; plus dragging 3 units around to do nothing is boring so that also tempted me to use them. So I have spent several scenarios foolishly involving them in fights and occasionally getting one killed.

I did reload once for under-recruiting; I just mis-guessed how many turns of recruiting the AI would manage and had to go back a couple of turns to recruit a bit more myself.

6) 6 — it's a good field battle with interesting terrain and substantial armies. In particular I liked the open flanks which gives a rare opportunity to make use of two scouts, and I liked that the woods by the start get in the way of deploying troops to the prime defensive terrain (the hills just beyond).

7) … but I felt that the terrain was perhaps a bit too easy for the player to use; the bank of the river that the player is fighting from is much more defensible than the AI's side, and it's such a good defensive line that it is obvious what to do. The only weak spot in the defence is south of the bridge where there are 3 consecutive plain tiles on the west bank, but the AI sends few forces that far south. I would have given the level 7/10 if the tactics were less obvious/less overwhelmingly supported by the terrain.

I would take away the fortress tile next to the bridge. That gives the player an extra problem to deal with, a weak spot in the defence to keep shoring up, and means the player will be able to show some skill by luring the AI to attack the hills further north by choosing how he deploys his troops.

I would add some more dialogue during the scenario to make the story seem less like a generic "here's a bad tempered orc, we'll have to fight him" scenario. The orc shamans seem like an obvious choice to plead with Shan Taum around turn 3 or 4 when the fighting starts "Please, we are on an important mission; with our lands in peril this is not the time to reopen old tribal feuds" etc. Kapou could make another appeal.

And drop the "mint cordial" line; how about [kapou: I'll make a mug from your skull!] Shan: "I expect you need one; since you are a homeless vagrant now I expect you've been slurping muddy water from a stream like a dog."

I would be tempted to take the shamans out of the player's army altogether (after the dialogue); they aren't particularly hard to keep away from the front line in this scenario so they don't add much tactically (there have been enough keep-the-shamans-alive levels already). The plot would be that it is not for them to fight orc against orc. Just an idea.

8 ) Lost a shaman and had to reload.

Cel
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 9 - Shan Taum the Smug

Post by Cel » October 10th, 2011, 1:59 pm

1.) 1.8.6, challenging

2.) 6 - I killed Shan Taum

3.) very clear.

4.) Interesting. However I would have thought killing Shan Taum is something extraordinary difficult, but it wasn't more difficult than other scenarios.

5.) To find villages for poisoned units and to find units that are able to hold three attacks from Ogres/Orc Warriors level2.

6.) 8

7.) -

8.) one time a high leveled unit of me died
sorry for my English...

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Ninjuri
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 9 - Shan Taum the Smug

Post by Ninjuri » June 30th, 2012, 5:15 am

Challenging 1.10.2
Difficulty: 5
Objectives: 100% clear
Storyline: Not quite clear on the last bit with the shamans, first they say they can't help Kapou'e, then they say they will have to reuinite the great horde (and help kapou'e?).
Challenges: Making use of the shamans while protecting them. I wanted to use them away from the battle to capture villages on the northern and southern flanks, but one or two enemies would always stray near so i had to give them a guard.
Fun: 7
Changes: none
Reloads: none
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line
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 9 - Shan Taum the Smug

Post by line » August 14th, 2012, 6:53 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Warlord (Nightmare) 1.10.3
346 starting gold (enemy: 600)
Finished turn 12/20

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4. The AI recruited a lot of lvl-1s. Especially the riders arrived at my lines early and died before Shan Taum’s lvl-2 units could back them up. The mix of lvl-1 and lvl-2 was to weak to put up the danger of losing a troll warrior. Especially at the points where they can be hit by three opponents per turns, the attacks of three lvl-2s at night could have been critical. But as said, Shan Taum’s recruiting prevented situations like that.
When played earlier, I remembered him to recruit more lvl-2s and critical situations at the ‘hotspots’.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Clear.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Trying to give the kills to the low-level-units combined with estimating the damage of the enemies when attacking and therefore placing the own units on the riverbanks.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
5. Stupid enemies jumping into the water…

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
None.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
None.
Attachments
SotBE-Shan_Taum_the_Smug_replay.gz
(33.47 KiB) Downloaded 229 times

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PorkSol
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 9 - Shan Taum the Smug

Post by PorkSol » April 6th, 2013, 3:04 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

1.10.6 - Warlord - (Nightmare) - No save/load - 360 starting gold

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

4 to kill Shan Taum, ? to survive 20 turns. That could go up a lot if you took an inefficient victory in the previous scenario.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Fine.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

I liked it.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Not much. I had enough gold to buy enough grunts and recall enough veterans to hold the entire defensive line along the river. I didn't even need to recall any level 3s

Grunts on hills defeat level twos in the water and absorb all the losses, veterans and a few surviving grunts clean up. 7 losses, all grunts. Some had EXP but oh well.

The greatest challenge was dealing with the ogres who are remarkably beefy. Finished on turn 13/20

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

8 - I enjoyed the chance to fight orcs and I thought it was relatively reasonable for orcs to charge into the water. This rating might fall on a replay as there isn't a lot of depth to the scenario because the AI will fight from the water.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

It depends, is this supposed to be a scenario that weakens you or a scenario that makes you stronger? If this is supposed to be a scenario that weakens you then you should strongly discourage the AI from stepping into the water.

Alternatively, you could decrease the gold in the previous scenario. This scenario would be much more difficult if you did not have enough gold to defend all the terrain by the river or if you had to rely on veterans instead of disposable grunts.

Also, give Shan Taum some traits.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

No reloads, two restarts that were somewhere between real attempts and test runs.
Attachments
SotBE-Shan_Taum_the_Smug_replay.gz
1.10.6 - Nightmare - no save load - no veteran losses
(37.79 KiB) Downloaded 171 times

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