Scenario Review: SotBE 5 - To the Harbour of Tirigaz

Feedback for the mainline campaign Son of the Black Eye.

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SBak
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 5 - To the Harbour of Tirigaz

Post by SBak » September 19th, 2013, 2:09 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Challenging (easiest) 1.8.6 and 1.10.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
Without Trolls and Orcish Crossbowmen 9, otherwise 7.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Oh very clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
You'd think that by now no matter where you are in Wesnoth that Undead living in or near swamps is common knowledge and that Kapou'e would have much more sense than to set up camp near one. But I have no problems with a bit of cheese in the storyline. Also I like the Orcish Shaman characters, they're rather 'cultish'.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The two Liches is the biggest challenge without any doubt. Both are chaotic but among all the mainstream chaotic units the Undead generally reign supreme. Liches have arguably the best and most consistent ranged attack of all the level3 units (though they can be matched easily by a dextrous strong Elvish Avenger or a strong Elvish Enchantress) and they are decent melee attackers too.

I've actually managed to kill a Lich with only lvl1 units (Troll Whelps and Orcish Archers) but I wouldn't advise trying it.

However I've found that taking out a Lich usually requires a combined attack of both melee and ranged. I learned this from the Princess's Revenge n HttT where I tend to take out Liches with an Elvish Hero or Konrad and Elvish Sorceresses and Enchantresses (more consistent than using Mages). I have this theory that the drain feature is proportionate to the number of hitpoints. Therefore I start with a Troll, use Orcish Crossbowmen (who make decent damage sinks) and then again Trolls.

It being night through the scenario is also a challenge as it favours the Undead more than the Orcs/Trolls. I know this from playing DID and also playing the MP faction Dark Legion against both. I tend to recruit the Archer/Troll lines with any Orcish Grunts about to level up (I send them south). I know it's blade melee against the Undead but they get 30% in the swamp, just have to support them with Archers/Crossbowmen.

Skellies make for good XP though, they don't like Trolls much, and like Troll Rocklobbers even less.

I've found that sending Jetto east along the river tends to prevent bats and other units from coming south across the river. I'm also not 100% about this, but sending the Orcish Shamen off to capture villages tends to prevent any of the Undead trying to get at them.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
Again it's 8. You can play this different ways and it's good for gaining XP.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I would change the terrain on the map or even switch this scenario with the Desert of Death. Fighting the Undead in swamps is terribly stale. Fighting the Undead on sand would be just as challenging as fighting a mix of bandits and outlaws on the existing map. Having two Huntsman leaders wouldn't be as challenging perhaps as Liches but if they could recruit Outlaws it would be just as challenging and make for a better storyline.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Funnily enough no. This so far is the only scenario in the campaign I've never been defeated.

Velensk
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 5 - To the Harbour of Tirigaz

Post by Velensk » December 4th, 2013, 3:31 pm

I started over the campaign with the trunk scenarios. I preformed about as I had the first time through.

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Normal 1.11.7

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Obvious.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
I'm not really paying attention.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
None.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6. It's satisfying but not really interesting.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
The bottleneck in the north makes it particularly easy. Maybe rather than a bridge a wider ford could be used. Alternatively, each side could be given a bit more meat.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
I actually did a one turn reload due to very bad luck. I don't usually do that but I didn't care to play through the rest of the scenario over again due to a 6/6.
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."

Velensk
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 5 - To the Harbour of Tirigaz

Post by Velensk » December 4th, 2013, 3:34 pm

As a side note: I don't really feel like the AI's new found ability to save gold makes it harder, probably easier. The one thing this does is make it so the game is less likely to be one climatic clash and then piecemeal cleanup by making the cleanup a bit bigger but it does not actually make anything harder.
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."

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Turuk
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 5 - To the Harbour of Tirigaz

Post by Turuk » December 4th, 2013, 3:49 pm

Could you post replays of the scenarios you have gotten through so far so we can try to track the AI's behavior in response to you? The new AI can make scenarios more challenging, but S5 onwards need to be balanced for it. The new AI applied to the current scenarios does tend to make them easier more often than not, hence our need to balance them all. It sounds as of some of the first scenarios need to be rebalanced as well. We can set different values in the scenarios to handle the gold saving differentły from the default setting.
Mainline Maintainer: AOI, DM, NR, TB and THoT.
UMC Maintainer: Forward They Cried, A Few Logs, A Few More Logs, Start of the War, and Battle Against Time

Velensk
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 5 - To the Harbour of Tirigaz

Post by Velensk » December 4th, 2013, 6:29 pm

Alright, for some reason my replay for the first scenario is from my first playthrough but the rest are from this playthrough.
Attachments
SotBE-To_the_Harbor_of_Ti..._replay.gz
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SotBE-Toward_Mountains_..._replay.gz
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SotBE-The_Siege_of_Barag..._replay.gz
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"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."

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Maiklas3000
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 5 - To the Harbour of Tirigaz

Post by Maiklas3000 » April 16th, 2014, 10:29 pm

(1) Level and version? Nightmare, 1.11.12, starting gold 112.
(2) How difficult? (1-10) 9
(3) Clear? Clear.
(4) Dialog? Good.
(5) Challenges? Low gold. Changes to the previous scenario, Siege of Barag Gor, make it difficult to come into this scenario with much gold. So, now it's hard to field two forces at once, for the north and south leaders. I got frustrated and recalled both my Level 3's: a Warlord and a Direwolf Rider that I named "Wolf of 9 Lives". It's not that I thought either was good for this scenario, but I needed some beefy units. Sadly, "Wolf of 9 Lives" used up his last life here, cut down by three skeleton archers. Another bummer: I went to such pains to give my loyal Assassin a 94% kill shot on the Death Knight... and he missed it.
Edit: I wound up replaying the scenario, so Wolf of 9 Lives lives!
(6) How fun? 7
(7) Changes? None.
(8) Reloads? Several losses, restarted from start, no save-reloads.
Attachments
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Theron
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 5 - To the Harbour of Tirigaz

Post by Theron » May 10th, 2014, 8:12 am

Nightmare; 1.11.13

Stats:
Scenario, starting gold (default+carryover),turns/max turns,recruits-recalls-advancements-losses-kills
5 100+32 20/20 7-5-4-6-34

Comments:
Scenario 5:
The biggest threat is running out of time.
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D-Wade
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 5 - To the Harbour of Tirigaz

Post by D-Wade » November 22nd, 2014, 5:40 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.12.0 - Challenging

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
6 - You have to split the forces correctly, other than that it's not that difficult.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Was nice as usual.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
No real challenge. My first wave of whelps got killed after some time but the reinforcements then took care of the northern leader.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7 - Was ok.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
It's fine as it is.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No.

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shadow12
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 5 - To the Harbour of Tirigaz

Post by shadow12 » January 21st, 2016, 8:03 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on? Challenging, Wesnoth 1.10.5, iOS 1.0.4
Ended on turn 14/38, Starting gold 227, Carry over 246.
I split into 2 teams of 7 each. In retrospect, I think I recruited too many L3's. The trade off was I was able to finish earlier, taking advantage of the early finish bonus.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) 5. A straight forward battle.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives? Very clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
An interesting story, it is refreshing to see things from the orc's point of view. Usually the Northerners are portrayed as the bad guys, I like seeing their side. The dialog is short and sweet, appreciably not long winded. This is an excellent campaign!

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Killing the northern lich, he was a bad ass, but I prefer having tough leaders to fight.
Gave the H.O.L.Y W.A.T.E.R to a Dire Wolf. Like any self respecting canine, he wolfed it down without even tasting it. I let him believe he had super powers.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
9, Very fun!
The map size is perfect. Things just feel right, like the rivers, mountains and marshes are where they should be.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Can't think of any.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Yes, a reload when that jerk-face lich killed my leader. :)
Sometimes life unexpectedly throws a Troll or a nasty Queen Naga in your path.

sine_nomine
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 5 - To the Harbour of Tirigaz

Post by sine_nomine » May 1st, 2016, 3:47 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Nightmare 1.12.4

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7
140 starting gold

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Very good

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
At first I planned on splitting my forces, with one group holding the north bridge to delay the lich's troops, but I ended up retreating and engaging the lich's army only after I had cleaned up the south. Fortunately I had some gold carryover from the last scenario so I could get away with being wasteful.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
None.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No
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BillytheBabyGoat
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 5 - To the Harbour of Tirigaz

Post by BillytheBabyGoat » December 21st, 2016, 4:23 am

Content Feedback wrote:(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
1. Nightmare.

2. 4.

3. Clear.

4. Fine.

5. No real challenges, pretty straightforward.

6. 4, was a pretty simple smash and bash.

7. Nothing in particular, was just a very standard "kill these enemies" type scenario.

8. Gruu died because the lich NE hit him 4 times on a mountain while he missed 3 times, so had to restart.

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max_torch
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 5 - To the Harbour of Tirigaz

Post by max_torch » March 22nd, 2018, 4:32 pm

Content Feedback wrote:(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
1. Nightmare. 1.12.6, 158 starting gold
2. 7
3.Clear
4. Fine, Gruu continues to amuse.
5. The main challenge for me was the south side. It's hard because the ghosts have good mobility and terrain defense while your units are limited by the swamp. Also, some units from the south cannot be contained and make it out of the swamp, threatening to flank me so the player has to find a way to prevent from being flanked.
6. Well, it's a nice relaxation coming from Siege of BaragGor. I like that it's a long night. High damage from me and my opponent throughout the entire duration ensuring a quick and bloody fight. I also like that it's a scenario where rocklobbers are good to use.
7. It's nice that the holy water is there as an option even though I never used it.
8. I lost a few times because I was getting flanked and also unlucky with my engagements at the south side
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