Scenario Review: SotBE 3 - Towards Mountains of Haag

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BritNavFan
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 3 - Towards Mountains of Haag

Post by BritNavFan » December 20th, 2011, 11:02 pm

(1) 1.8.6 at EASY/Challenging and NORMAL/Difficult, 1.9.12 at NORMAL
(2) Difficulty (1-10): 4 at EASY and 3 at NORMAL
(3) Clarity of scenario objectives: Clear
(4) Dialog and storyline: Very clear and interesting enough.
(5) Major challenges: The scenario has two objectives: getting your leader across the map and defeating the Dwarven leader. At "Challenging", getting the leader across the map is completely trivial, while at "Difficult" it is easy but not trivial. However, at both difficulty levels killing the Dwarven leader is equally difficult. It took me 4 tries to beat him.
(6) Fun (1-10): 5 (average)
(7) Changes I'd make: Because of the disparity between the difficulties of the two goals at Easy difficulty, I would give the Dwarven side as much gold at Easy as it currently gets on NORMAL (making its armies stronger which makes getting your leader across the map harder). Arguably, at EASY difficulty, you might make their leader a level 2 unit (Dwarvish Steelclad) instead of level 3 one, but it's probably fine.
(8) Lost twice at EASY due to the Dwarven leader killing AI-controlled Gruu. At NORMAL difficulty, there are enough level 1 Dwarves to keep Gruu from getting to the Dwarven leader, hence my rating of the scenario as easier at NORMAL difficulty than at EASY.

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Ninjuri
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 3 - Towards Mountains of Haag

Post by Ninjuri » June 16th, 2012, 7:42 am

Challenging 1.10.2
Difficulty: 4 To kill the dwarf lord, but 6 to keep the troll alive while doing it
Objectives: 100% clear
Dialogue/Storyline: good.
Challenges: i was in a position where i had ample units to actually take down the dwarf leader, but for some reason the troll hero kept running in and getting smacked up. I kept reloading 1 turn back but he always attacked and then got attacked and then died. I even set his behavior to defensive. So i loaded 2 turns back and he still died a few times before i got it right.
Fun: 7
Changes: Protecting the troll wasn't really protecting him, it was killing the enemies before he got over there and died, because he's stupid.
Reloads/Restarts: lots, had to reload a bunch of times because the troll kept dying.

Attachments related: it shows my frustration
Attachments
SotBE-Toward_Mountains_of...2_replay.gz
(25.39 KiB) Downloaded 294 times
SotBE-Toward_Mountains_of..._replay.gz
(25.48 KiB) Downloaded 285 times
Fate is against me.

line
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 3 - Towards Mountains of Haag

Post by line » August 9th, 2012, 2:07 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Warlord (Nightmare) 1.10.3
179 starting gold (enemy: 180)
Finished turn 16/20


(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7. The difficulty is very depending on what happened before and what troops and how much gold you are bringing into battle. You’ll need some about-to-level-units to take the first hits of the incoming dwarves and upgrade on the attack the round after. (I think running is not an option because you will need experienced troops in the following scenario.)
Again you need grunts and archers, again you have to hold up a d-line (but now you have the possibility to fall back if the dwarves push too hard and by the time you might retreat the trolls will reinforce your lines). Again you will need meatshields (therefore you should recruit some cheap grunts, do not only recall). Obviously keeping the dwarves on bad ground is a must. Holding your ground and not letting the dwarves step onto the mountains is more important than to attack on your own (I think all these things were mentioned before or in the walkthrough).

It’s also recommended to level up a rider to goblin pillager to slow the lvl 3 dwarf (I didn’t manage to upgrade the rider, but the trolls took care of the dwarves leader – luckily without getting Grüü killed).

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear, but I played this scenario more than once, so I know Kapou’e has to reach the signpost to win the scenario.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
I don’t mind the dwarves being stubborn enough to head for the fight. Why should they let anyone pass their land? Also I don’t mind the winning condition of Kapou’e reaching the end of the valley. He was fleeing in the scenario before, why should there be time to waste now?

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Holding out against the dwarves usually is. Afterwards it might happen that Grüü is killed by the dwarf.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7. The dwarves are tough and have homefield advantage. The problem is your ally, that you can’t control but have to keep alive.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
There’s not too much sense in the unflagged villages next to the dwarves’ keep. If they live there they should control the villages. But I admit, the scenario would be much harder, if all the dwarves would head straight east.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No reloads, but I think I picked a very happy outcome.
Attachments
SotBE-Toward_Mountains_of..._replay.gz
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PorkSol
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 3 - Towards Mountains of Haag

Post by PorkSol » March 29th, 2013, 3:40 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

1.10.6 - Warlord - (Nightmare) - No save/load - 201 starting gold

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

8 to get a relatively efficient win

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Extremely unclear. I believed that I would win the map if I defeated the Dwarf leader. However I was still required to move my leader to the signpost. This required a restart as I had used my leader to help kill the Dwarf. I think that this objective is not explained properly.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

I liked it. I felt bad for Gruu when his father died, even though only a few lines were involved.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

- I honestly wasn't sure of the best way to take on dwarf fighters with grunts. My grunts tended to get chewed up quite badly by retaliation. I took a lot of damage if I fought the Dwarves on hill terrain, but if I took up a defensive position and forced the Dwarves to stay on 30% terrain then the main body of dwarves arrived after night had ended. Ultimately I won through some lucky retaliation on second night that weakened a lot of Dwarves and allowed me to be aggressive during the dawn and day.

- Dealing with the Dwarf Lord - It was not night when I approached the Dwarf lord, so my units could barely hurt him. He seemed reluctant to be lured onto bad terrain in my previous runs. I didn't want to wait until night and I wasn't sure if the AI trolls would be willing to hold back either, so I had to fight him in a bad time of day. Unfortunately, the slow effect from my pillager wore off before the troll turn. Ultimately it was the trolls who did most of the damage to him. The father troll died in the process and I was lucky enough to get the kill shot.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

6 - I had to subtract a bit from this score because of the poorly described objectives. If you are unaware that you need to reach the signpost after you kill the dwarf you will lose many turns. Most likely you'll want to replay the map.

And there is a lot of randomness with finishing the boss, because of the AI trolls.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Either make the scenario end when you kill the boss or if that would screw up the balance then make it clear that you will need to reach the sign even if you kill the boss.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Never reloaded, several restarts when my units got chewed up too badly to continue, when I botched the attack on the dwarf and when I found out that I had misinterpreted the objective.
Attachments
SotBE-Toward_Mountains_of..._replay.gz
1.10.6 - Nightmare - no save load
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cKomuHKa
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 3 - Towards Mountains of Haag

Post by cKomuHKa » March 31st, 2013, 9:34 pm

I simply HATE scenarios where I get late postconditions without any additional turns.
PorkSol wrote:I believed that I would win the map if I defeated the Dwarf leader. However I was still required to move my leader to the signpost.
Oh.. What if my sluggish leader stands at another map corner?

SBak
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 3 - Towards Mountains of Haag

Post by SBak » September 18th, 2013, 10:58 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Challenging (easiest) 1.8.5 and 1.10.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
6 - it's not that difficult a scenario but I find it more 'awkward' than difficult.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Again I liked it. I think a bit more effort could have been made with the Dwarvish leader (how about him remembering a past conflict?) but it develops kapou'e's character really well and I enjoyed the dialogue with the Trolls.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Terrain and deciding where to engage the enemy. I feel you have to recruit in numbers and having a Pillager or two makes the scenario easier (I usually get a Pillager fairly early) but there's that narrow strip between the mountains and the snow where it is possible to engage the enemy but where you can just as easily come unstuck.

The other challenge is the Trolls which arrive later. They are, of course a great help, because they can engage the Dwarves on hills and mountains and they do a good job in softening up the Dwarvish Lord leader. But they are also perhaps probably just as gung-ho as Chantal's Elves at the start of HttT and you have to allow for them steaming in there.

I tend to recruit a balanced mix and do what I can to divide the Dwarvish forces doing what I can to get them into the forests. I send Kapou'e further west in the break away group and try to create space for the Trolls to come down the centre in between my two groups which brings them onto the mountains.

I've also found that the unlikely but possible event of the Dwarves killing the Troll father is best avoided because Gruu then throws caution to the wind and you end up having to protect him.

I usually get to kill the Dwarvish leader with a Pillager and some help from the Trolls.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8 - it's a nice step up from the first scenario and I like it because victory isn't presented to you on a plate. You do have to actually come up with something to win. The other thing I like about this scenario is that you can create your own luck.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Don't fix what isn't broken. This scenario does what is written on the packet - it's challenging.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Yes. I've actually drawn the Dwarves much further north into the snow to kill them off using an Elvish trick of using the edge of a forest, come south with the Trolls to have Kapou'e finish off the Dwarvish leader (setting him up towards level3) only to run out of turns and be 1-2 turns short of reaching the signpost.

Velensk
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 3 - Towards Mountains of Haag

Post by Velensk » December 3rd, 2013, 7:32 pm

I heard that you wanted testers for this one. I decided that I'd give it another run through though I don't remember it being especially interesting before. I will be playing through it on medium difficulty.

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Normal 1.11.7

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Obvious

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
I'm not really paying much attention to the plot.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Not getting impatient with how tough dwarves are.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
5

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Not really what can be done as long as you're fighting dwarves. There's nothing wrong with the challenge or situation. Maybe find some way to introduce assassins earlier.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Restarted once after making a bad attack because I was getting tired of waiting for the dwarves to die.

Edit: Moved to correct topic and changed subject on OP's request
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."

Laveley
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 3 - Towards Mountains of Haag

Post by Laveley » December 3rd, 2013, 10:28 pm

I dont get it why people think this scenario is difficult, it was a piece of cake for me, did it with the "normal" difficulty and with no load/saves and got a bunch of gold to the next scenario.

However, i think there is a bug with the objectives or they aren't clear enough, since i defeated the dwarf lord but even so i had to move my character to the sign in the top of the map.

Replay attached, hope it helps someone.
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Turuk
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 3 - Towards Mountains of Haag

Post by Turuk » December 3rd, 2013, 11:40 pm

Laveley wrote:I dont get it why people think this scenario is difficult, it was a piece of cake for me, did it with the "normal" difficulty and with no load/saves and got a bunch of gold to the next scenario.

However, i think there is a bug with the objectives or they aren't clear enough, since i defeated the dwarf lord but even so i had to move my character to the sign in the top of the map.

Replay attached, hope it helps someone.
Thanks Laveley, are you playing on 1.11.7? This should be fixed on the most recent developmental version, so yes, it is a bug if you are still seeing it.

It should be decently hard on medium, but it would be helpful to know how hard people find "nightmare" as well.

How much gold you start each scenario with would also help in our balancing.
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Maiklas3000
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 3 - Towards Mountains of Haag

Post by Maiklas3000 » April 4th, 2014, 8:12 pm

(1) Level and version? Nightmare; 1.11.12; starting gold 136.
(2) Difficult? 8 for defeat of the dwarf leader, probably quite easy to flee instead.
(3) Clear? Needs help. Objectives start out as "flee OR defeat the leader" but the "OR" is removed once the trolls appear. I didn't know what to think. It turned out that the first objectives were correct. I suggest using the exact wording of the first objectives.
(4) Dialog? Okay.
(5) Challenges? I tried a frontal assault into the hills and lost a few times, sometimes due to death of Gruu, the troll kid. During these failures, I saw how effective the trolls were in supporting the north part of my line, so I decided to try to join forces with them. Instead of heading west into the hills, I sent my troops north into the two villages and woods above my keep. Also, just west of there, where the trolls were, I sent a Grunt, an Archer, and a Goblin Knight that I had previously named "Wolf of 9 Lives". And of course at the start I sent Wolf Riders, three in all, to grab villages out west. This time a managable number of enemy troops headed my way, though they came during daytime and I lost a Warrior. With my support, the trolls also did not have much trouble. I could help the trolls by luring individual units towards them with bait units and mopping up the easy kills that otherwise might have wasted the trolls' powerful attacks. For the endgame, I had no choice but to wait for the trolls to heavily wound the dwarf leader before I could try for the kill. "Wolf of 9 Lives" wound up with that kill, along with 3 others, and he leveled up to Direwolf Rider.
(6) Fun? 8
(7) Changes? See 3. And thank you for making the actual objectives be a logical "OR", since a lot of people were complaining about having to flee after defeating the dwarf leader.
(8) Restarts? Lots of normal losses, no save-reloads. If you don't send units to support the trolls, Gruu can die due to thundersticks.
(9) WML? Very good.
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Theron
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 3 - Towards Mountains of Haag

Post by Theron » May 10th, 2014, 8:04 am

Nightmare; 1.11.13

Stats:
Scenario, starting gold (default+carryover),turns/max turns,recruits-recalls-advancements-losses-kills
3 100+55 16/20 6-6-3-3-7

Comments:
Scenario 3:
The biggest threat is the trolls doing something stupid.
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D-Wade
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 3 - Towards Mountains of Haag

Post by D-Wade » November 21st, 2014, 4:38 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.10.7 - Challenging

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5 - The dwarves weren't that difficult with the massive use of archers.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Not very clear. It says "Kill the dwarven leader (bonus for earlier finish" or something like that, so I expected the scenario to be over when I killed him. I first thought it was a bug, but apparently you still have to get to the sign post. It would be good if you could make that clearer.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
The dialog is very good in this campaign, especially compared to the campaign I played before ("The Sceptre of Fire").

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
It is important to mainly strike at night and trying to prevent the dwarves from getting a good defensive position in the hills.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7 - Simple 1v1 but since this is the first time that I'm playing with orcs, it was still fun.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
See #3. Other than that, it's fine.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No.

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D-Wade
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 3 - Towards Mountains of Haag

Post by D-Wade » November 22nd, 2014, 8:52 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.12.0 - Challenging

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7 - More difficult than in 1.10.7 as there are now more dwarves and the enemy also recruits thunderers.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Now, it's clear ;) . Defeating the dwarven boss actually wins you the scenario.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
The dialog is very good in this campaign, especially compared to the campaign I played before ("The Sceptre of Fire").

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
It is important to mainly strike at night and try to prevent the dwarves from getting a good defensive position in the hills.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8 - A bit more challenge = a bit more fun

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
It's fine as it is.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
I had to reload two or three times as I lost leveled up units I did not want to lose.

MalShubertal
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 3 - Towards Mountains of Haag

Post by MalShubertal » May 25th, 2015, 9:36 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.12.2 Nightmare

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8. I had to try several different strategies.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Clear, simple.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Keeping Gruu alive, keeping dwarves off the hills. Killing the leader was extremely challenging. He kept one-shotting my crossbowmen. So I ended up just surrounding him with expendable units, claiming his villages, and running out the clock to get good gold carryover.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
10. It made me try many different strategies.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
None.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Restarted a few times due to dwarf leader killing off my delicate crossbowmen. Lost once due to not paying attention and letting Gruu get surrounded. Lost once due to time running out. Lost once due to trying to fight dwarves in hills.

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Elfarion
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Re: Scenario Review: SotBE 3 - Towards Mountains of Haag

Post by Elfarion » March 31st, 2016, 2:06 pm

I don't know, if this has been reported before, I just played the scenario and the dwarven leader was killed by a troll. Kapou'e gave his monologue about defeating the dwarves but the scenario did not end.
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