11 - The Battle of the Book

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governor
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11 - The Battle of the Book

Post by governor » December 9th, 2008, 5:18 am

Feedback thread for Scenario 11 - The Battle of the Book

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taptap
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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 11 - The Battle of the Book

Post by taptap » March 22nd, 2012, 9:28 pm

Clear objective but without giving the crucial information: Where is Aguagar? Nothing against fog, but what is the point in having fog in this scenario? (The nice surprise when your ally suddenly gets attacked by L3 trolls I suppose.)

The drake recruitment is suffering from the same 1.9 recruitment bug that all mainline campaigns that haven't someone looking at them: half a dozen L3 with each dangerous unit exposed to slow are much easier than a mix that has only some L3 units in it. The Flamehearts would be awesome when there were some L1 fighters around, but with only L3 around the leadership doesn't help at all.
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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 11 - The Battle of the Book

Post by Ninjuri » May 8th, 2012, 4:11 am

Easy mode 1.10.2

When i started, i sent a group of dwarves up the mountains on the left, another group of dwarves up the mountain on the right, and a group of elves through the forest towards the center castle. When I first saw the drakes, one of them flew out of the fog and shot like 10 fireballs in rapid succession at a dwarf (I play on 4 speed), killing it instantly. Seeing this massive creature decimate one of my troops that quickly was like a mix of "HOLY CRAP!" and "AWESOME!"

When the cutscene first happened and the mage called to me, i thought it was aguagar threatening me and that he was in the center castle. I actually tried to send my units up to kill him but then i realized he was my ally. I still thought his name was aguagar for a while and thought the scenario objective was now to save him from drakes and trolls. It was after he sent a griffon thing to the actual aguagar that i saw a mage was in the castle where the drakes were coming from, and that was the actual enemy. I pulled half of my elves, and half the dwarves i sent to the east back to send against him, leaving the rest to set up a perimeter based at a village to hold the trolls at bay. The drakes were pretty hard, but i was able to outnumber and surround them like Stalin. After that it was a mater of 1 strategically placed urfzerker to kill aguagar. The whole thing was pretty confusing but pretty fun none the less.
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Maiklas3000
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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 11 - The Battle of the Book

Post by Maiklas3000 » June 26th, 2014, 8:36 pm

(1) Level, version, and gold? Hard, 1.11.15, 254 starting gold.
(2) Difficult? (1-10) 5, similar to the previous scenario in that it's more nerve-racking than hard.
(3) Objectives? Clear.
(4) Dialog? Good.
(5) Challenges? My mind boggled as I added up the potential damage from all the L3 drakes I was facing. However, I was in good terrain, I was able to slow or kill most of them right away, and I lost no units to the drakes.
(6) Fun? (1-10) 7, not bad, but it seems almost broken.
(7) Changes? The main reason I say it seems broken is that it's easy to kill Aquagar before the trolls get to Crelanu. So, it's like, what's the point of Crelanu's castle? Maybe Aquagar could be moved farther away or with more MP costly or dangerous terrain around him. Maybe the lake could be extended west almost to the mountains, or that area could be made into a marshland, as it would look natural there.

I second taptap's criticism above about the excessive L3 recruits. As a quick fix throughout this whole campaign, you could try setting the recruits to nothing but L1 for the first round, and then opening it up to L1-L3 after that, or maybe continuing to alternate. Recall that in my review for Acquaintance in Need, I said that the Troll leader would benefit tremendously by recruiting nothing but Whelps the first round. So, taptap is correct that the change in the Wesnoth recruiting mechanism has upset some of the scenarios.

(8) Restarts? No, I won the first time. No save-reloads here or at any time previous in the campaign.
Attachments
LoW-Battle_of_the_Book_replay.gz
(106.17 KiB) Downloaded 193 times

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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 11 - The Battle of the Book

Post by Inky » September 24th, 2014, 10:33 pm

Original post (version 1.10.4)
Spoiler:
(1) Level and version? Hard, 1.12.4, 234 starting gold
(2) Difficult? (1-10) 3 - much too easy.
(3) Objectives? Clear.
(4) Dialog? Fine.
(5) Challenges? No challenge to this scenario.
(6) Fun? (1-10) 4, needs to be more of a challenge.
(7) Changes? More gold for the mage enemy? His drakes were basically entirely wiped out in a single turn.
-I think there's some wasted potential here. Currently the best strategy is to run up the left side and completely ignore the right side. I think this scenario would be much more interesting if the left side provided enough of a challenge that you would also have to worry about defending the right side.
(8) Restarts? None.
Finished turn 8/38
Attachments
LoW-Battle_of_the_Book_replay.gz
wesnoth 1.12.4 / hard
(89.79 KiB) Downloaded 153 times
Last edited by Inky on September 19th, 2015, 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Violet-n-red
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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 11 - The Battle of the Book

Post by Violet-n-red » June 30th, 2015, 3:07 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.12.2, normal

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
first, i must say i cheated here - i built scouts to see what is going on, the reloaded and succeeded on the second try.
4 with my current setup - 3lvl default units with one 3lvl sniper just to make use of that +2 gold per turn.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
objective was clear, but where was it? there are three camps and a fog everywhere. i would've moved towards castel on the lack if i did not cheat.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
good enough, although it made little sense why nobody asked why taking that... archer friend of Kalenz was an unwise idea, as that mage-with-the-book said.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
biggest challenge was in baiting out and planning against multiple high level drakes.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7? not sure maybe more, maybe less. i was very satisfied with the single encounter with those drakes and killing their leader quickly and easily afterwards without losing anybody or spending too much time for preparations.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
remove starting camp, remove troll opponent, rearrange map so the player starts somewhere between their ally and a drake mage, make enemy build two or three waves of drakes with some delay, halve ally's number of houses, make their commander always stand on the keep so we won't try to recruit anything, describe the latter in dialogues (something about guarding the book and not risking with letting an enemy lay it's hands on it)

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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 11 - The Battle of the Book

Post by Caladbolg » September 1st, 2016, 6:17 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.12.5, medium.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2.5. The east can be completely ignored and the west has few insanely strong units. However, if you don't rush towards the drakes immediately (and instead stay just out of their reach), you'll engage the fastest of them at dusk and the bulk of their forces at night, effectively negating their individual strength. Elves' great forest defense coupled with the low number of enemies then makes the battle almost trivial.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Storyline is good. Dialog is also good but slightly unclear. At the start Cleodil says "There... I sense magic emanating from that stone keep east of the lake. That is where we will find the mage." When you sight Crealnu, she says "That, I think, must be the mage of which Olurf spoke. But he is not the one I sensed as we approached this place...". If she didn't sense Crelanu, then who did she sense? Maybe Aquagar but he's not at the stone keep near the lake. Maybe the book but it isn't a person. Unless the implication is that the book has a mind of its own?

Another minor thing is that Aquagar is the "great drake wizard of Morogoth". Morogoth being the Drakes' homeland as seen in TRoW. I find it strange that the drakes have allowed a human to not only live there, but (presumably) earn some status. In some older versions Aquagar was a Drake Mage, no? It is strange for a drake to be a mage, but this scenario has a feel of strangeness, what with the insanely powerful book, a mage who makes potions out of lich's bodyparts and wild creatures fighting on his behalf. It'd fit, I think.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Nothing really.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
Sadly, 4. "Sadly" because I think this scenario really has a lot of potential and could easily be an 8. However, if you can finish it even if you ignore 3/4 of the map, then something is wrong. The setting is really interesting but it isn't brought to the fore (more variety in monsters would be good for example). It's also too easy in that you can ignore the trolls and finish really quickly (I needed 8/34 turns) which breaks any sense of suspense.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Ahem. Firstly, switch the positions of trolls and drakes. That way, drakes are closer to Crelanu (flying ones can quickly reach him- more pressure) and further away from the player (harder to intervene). Trolls are closer to the player and can slow his advancement (so you'll have to engage them). Of course, terrains would also have to be slightly adjusted so that the new troll position is more secluded by mountains and the new drake position more accesible to the player (less mountains).

Secondly, add some variety to Crelanu's recruits. Currently, he only recruits mages and gryphons. He's supposed to be some legendary mage but the most he can do is coerce a few large birds to help him? Give him some other monsters... yetis, ogres, wolves. Maybe even a few tentacles in the lake and some woses. Heck, I wouldn't mind a Cockatrice if you limit stone to only a few turns. My point is, this scenario is perfect for showing off the exotic stuff. Maybe remove the mages. If he was banished, I doubt younger mages would follow him into the middle of nowhere.

Thirdly, give Crelanu a bit more money... on his own, he's practically helpless. Also give both enemies A LOT more money. They start by recruiting only half a castle. They should at least have 2 castles full of units for this to be challenging.

(8) Restarts?
No, but I played it twice. The first time I sent a part of my army to the east to help Crelanu but it turned out it was unnecessary. As a result, I had several units that didn't even get to fight but drained my money on upkeep. The 2nd time I brought out less units and sent them all east. I finished sooner and wasted less gold so my carryover was almost 100 gold more. Both replays are provided but commentary will be for the 2nd run.

Strategy: recall 3/4 castles worth of units and send them north; one berserker and pathfinder will gather villages east. Turn 3, Kalenz is slightly exposed but he'd have to be extremely unlucky to die in the forest. Turn 4, dusk, drakes are weaker. Exposed units are on high def and most of them either accessible from only 1 hex or have slow. Turn 5, night, drakes are weak, only 4 remain (2 weakened). They can't reach my low-hp units. Turn 6, drakes killed. 7, surrounding Aquagar; trolls are within Crelanu's sight. 8, final village-grabbing. I tried to give the kill to Olurf but he failed so my sorceress got it.

Stats: 418 start gold, 8/34 turns (!), 244 end gold, 14/20 villages, 22 units, 12 income, 0 recruits, 9 recalls (could've done it with even less!), 0 advancements, 0 losses, 8 kills, -8% dmg dealt, -2% dmg taken. Slightly unlucky.

As seen from the stats, the issues I mentioned are not negligible. This scenario needs a serious overhaul IMO. As said, here are both replays. The 1st one is really sloppy (but I still needed only 9 turns to finish), the 2nd one is better and has about 100 more gold carryover (651 vs 560 on the 1st).
Attachments
LoW-Battle_of_the_Book_replay2.gz
2nd, good
(91.42 KiB) Downloaded 119 times
LoW-Battle_of_the_Book_replay.gz
1st, sloppy
(93.19 KiB) Downloaded 125 times

devavrata
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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 11 - The Battle of the Book

Post by devavrata » December 23rd, 2016, 11:32 pm

No form for this scenario, so I copied the one for scenario 9 and changed the name and number:
Content Feedback wrote:The Legend of Wesmere, scenario 11 - The Battle of the Book:

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Battle for Wesnoth 1.8.3, Easy/Medium, Battle for Wesnoth 1.10.7 Hard.
Content Feedback wrote:(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4
Content Feedback wrote:(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear
Content Feedback wrote:(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Unclear. There's some speak form Landar about destiny that isn't justified.
Content Feedback wrote:(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Too many mountains, and elves are incredibly slow on mountains. Fun isn't over until all villages are taken! But in this scenario it takes forever to reach the villages in the mountains.
Content Feedback wrote:(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
5
Content Feedback wrote:(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Less mountains. Having to kill the eastern troll leader in addition to the western mage.
Content Feedback wrote:(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No
Content Feedback wrote:(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
-

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