10 - Cliffs of Thoria

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rmj
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10 - Cliffs of Thoria

Post by rmj » February 4th, 2011, 8:23 am

1. 1.9.3 Normal
2. 7. But if I played it again it would be 5.
3. The objective is misleading. It says kill the enemy leaders, but when I killed the orcish leader that was a victory. I never attacked the gryphon's nest (since a Yeti was there). So the objective should simple state "kill the orc leader." Which is very easy to accomplish once the two Yeti are gone.
4. A unit remarks how big the Yeti is, but I could not see it.
5. The Yetis, of course are the challenge. But that's the pleaure of this scenario. The first gryphon attack could be a problem, but I was expecting them.
6. 7
7.Once the two Yetis are eliminated, moving to the signpost is a long but uneventful process. Perhaps, removing the Yeti at the gryphons nest and instead having several gryphon guardians; and requiring the killing of the head gryphon as well as the orc leader for victory.
8. The Yetis kindly killed only one level one units

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taptap
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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 10 - Cliffs of Thoria

Post by taptap » March 20th, 2012, 12:15 am

The Legend of Wesmere, scenario 10 - Cliffs of Thoria:

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

1.10.1, High Lord (Difficult), 330 gold

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

4 (with that much gold it isn't so difficult to finish), 6 (for optimized play without overrecruits and no stupidities)

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

It isn't absolutely clear whether the objectives are consecutive or alternative + it isn't clear when the Gryphon leader dies that you need only kill one leader.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

If the Yeti dialog isn't triggered by a scout, the Yeti might well be out of sight when it is triggered.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Not taking silly risks when slow fails. No overrecruiting. Levelling a wide variety of units.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

A little too much an AI movement manipulation puzzle for my liking. Otherwise nice.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Maybe it is simply too much Yetis doing too much work for you.

Add dialog when Gryphon leader dies (to Yeti) and change objectives.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Feeling bad about no carryover to next scenario (restart with less recruits), "taking silly risks when slow fails" = bad play (even if such a mass fail was an unlikely event).
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DanChem
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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 10 - Cliffs of Thoria

Post by DanChem » March 22nd, 2013, 2:12 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Easy (1.10.4).
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
1 (As difficult as a walk in the park.)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Ok, but a bit silent. Could have been more dialog. (Why are there yetis? Why are there gryphoons? Why are they aggressive?)
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
None. I challenged myself in finishing all enemies in a fast and stylish way. Fighting the yeti in a fair and direct fight without retreating or healing. And attacking last yeti, gryphoon leader and troll warrior at the same time.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
Well I am not that much fan of the hard levels. (That's why I play on easy.) But after the first few scenarios the difficulty seems so low, that I have to give myself extra work. Thank god, there were at least three yetis. :-). 7.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
More enemies, one more leader or more yeti.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No.
(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
I didn't check.

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Maiklas3000
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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 10 - Cliffs of Thoria

Post by Maiklas3000 » June 26th, 2014, 3:48 pm

(1) Level, version, and gold? Hard, 1.11.15, 220 starting gold.
(2) Difficult? (1-10) 7, maybe more nerve-racking than hard.
(3) Objectives? Still need an "or" in the objectives.
(4) Dialog? Good. I see you fixed the Yeti sighting. That works well.
(5) Challenges? Like other reviewers, I was pretty horrified to be still fighting Yetis as Gryphons and L3 Trolls engaged my troops as well. Soon after, I had a sticky situation with 3 L3 trolls, 3 L2 trolls, 1 Whelp, and a Gryphon. That caused me to lose a ready-to-level Shaman, but it could have been worse.
(6) Fun? (1-10) 7, the Yetis were interesting, but otherwise it's a bland, short scenario.
(7) Changes? If you put a vast swamp around the Gryphon leader (farther than his movement), then it would be marginally harder.
(8) Restarts? No, I won the first time. No save-reloads here or at any time previous in the campaign.
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Turuk
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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 10 - Cliffs of Thoria

Post by Turuk » June 26th, 2014, 4:59 pm

Maiklas3000 wrote: (3) Objectives? Still need an "or" in the objectives.
So the objectives are correct, both enemy leaders need to be defeated. The reason that victory was triggered for you when the troll leader was killed starts on turn 7, as there was a third yeti that headed north to attack the gryphons. By turn 12, he has killed the enemy leader, and two gryphons kill him a couple turns later. These are the same two gryphons you encounter and kill heading north, where your units are not far enough to see that the Gryphon Leader is already dead.
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Maiklas3000
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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 10 - Cliffs of Thoria

Post by Maiklas3000 » June 26th, 2014, 7:53 pm

What I meant was that it wasn't clear to me that defeating both enemy leaders was sufficient, without also running Kalenz to the signpost. I had also said that in the older thread. It would be clear to me if the conditions were:

* Reach the signpost with Kalenz OR
* Defeat all enemy leaders

No "OR" appears in the actual text. No big deal, though.

I was also confused about the Gryphon leader and missing third Yeti, but I assumed I had killed the Gryphon leader without noticing his crown (I looked for it in the replay too, but still thought I failed to notice it), and I figured the third Yeti was waiting close to the signpost. I even searched the WML code for the missing Yeti. It's interesting to learn their true fates from you. Maybe the scenario could be tweaked to avoid death-of-enemy-leader by Yeti and death-of-third-Yeti by Gryphons.

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Turuk
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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 10 - Cliffs of Thoria

Post by Turuk » June 26th, 2014, 8:13 pm

Maiklas3000 wrote: What I meant was that it wasn't clear to me that defeating both enemy leaders was sufficient, without also running Kalenz to the signpost. I had also said that in the older thread. It would be clear to me if the conditions were:

* Reach the signpost with Kalenz OR
* Defeat all enemy leaders

No "OR" appears in the actual text. No big deal, though.
I'm following now, and that's a fair point, it was changed to utilize {ALTERNATIVE_OBJECTIVE_CAPTION} at Wesbane's suggestion.
Maiklas3000 wrote:I was also confused about the Gryphon leader and missing third Yeti, but I assumed I had killed the Gryphon leader without noticing his crown (I looked for it in the replay too, but still thought I failed to notice it), and I figured the third Yeti was waiting close to the signpost. I even searched the WML code for the missing Yeti. It's interesting to learn their true fates from you. Maybe the scenario could be tweaked to avoid death-of-enemy-leader by Yeti and death-of-third-Yeti by Gryphons.
I actually didn't catch it until turn 4, and then I flipped point of view to full map to see what the AI was up to with the third Yeti. Lo and behold, it had decided to head north to kill a side for you. I'll let the maintainer know that this scenario might need a bit of reworking in order to ensure that the gryphon side gets to be a bit more involved with the player.
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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 10 - Cliffs of Thoria

Post by Inky » September 24th, 2014, 10:19 pm

Original Post (version 1.10.4)
Spoiler:
(1) Level and version? Hard, 1.12.4, 318 starting gold
(2) Difficult? (1-10) 5; I let the trolls and yetis fight which made things much easier.
(3) Objectives? Again, an "or" for the two alternate objectives would be clearer.
(4) Dialog? Fine.
(5) Challenges? Getting to the troll keep in the mountains.
(6) Fun? (1-10) 5
(7) Changes? Make it so the yeti doesn't always kill the gryphon leader - kind of anticlimatic for that to happen.
(8) Restarts? None.

I send the dwarves north to deal with the yeti there but I really should have sent them east to the troll keep because the other units move way too slow over mountains.
Finished turn 16/24
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thebends43201
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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 10 - Cliffs of Thoria

Post by thebends43201 » April 25th, 2015, 6:03 pm

Maiklas3000 wrote:What I meant was that it wasn't clear to me that defeating both enemy leaders was sufficient, without also running Kalenz to the signpost. I had also said that in the older thread. It would be clear to me if the conditions were:

* Reach the signpost with Kalenz OR
* Defeat all enemy leaders

No "OR" appears in the actual text. No big deal, though.

I was also confused about the Gryphon leader and missing third Yeti, but I assumed I had killed the Gryphon leader without noticing his crown (I looked for it in the replay too, but still thought I failed to notice it), and I figured the third Yeti was waiting close to the signpost. I even searched the WML code for the missing Yeti. It's interesting to learn their true fates from you. Maybe the scenario could be tweaked to avoid death-of-enemy-leader by Yeti and death-of-third-Yeti by Gryphons.
This still hasn't been changed, as of 1.12.2, and it actually is a big deal. I spent a bunch of turns running Kalenz to the signpost when I didn't need to. As a result, I let the enemies hang around and recruiting for the experience, rather than killing them quickly. So i'm probably now going to be short gold for the next scenario, so I will replay this one. If I had known killing the leaders was sufficient, I would've ended a lot quicker.


For anyone reading this looking for help, ignore what I said about needing to redo this scenario for the gold. The next one is a breeze.
Last edited by Ravana on April 25th, 2015, 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Merged double post. In the future please use edit button.

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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 10 - Cliffs of Thoria

Post by Violet-n-red » June 30th, 2015, 2:52 pm

(1) Level, version, and gold?
EDITED: [normal], 1.12.2
(2) Difficult? (1-10)
8 maybe?
(3) Objectives?
this time i was in doubt if i really have to complete both of them, but i stil ltried to just run for the mountains.
(4) Dialog?
acceptable
(5) Challenges?
barely passable terrain on both sides, hard hitting enemies that benefits from it and fast moving ones that ignores it, yetis that seemingly aggroes on my forces when i can see them.
(6) Fun? (1-10)
3. no idea what is happening, scouts gets devoured almost instantly, strong enemies literally everywhere, feels like everything is bound to attack me if i don't climb western mountains and stay there.
(7) Changes?
do something with yetis? looks like they don't have fog of war and they prefer to chase squishy elven people rather than sturdy trolls or hard-to-catch gryphons.
(8) Restarts?
many many restarts.
1. i had no idea what was coming - i prepared for mobile defence, but was overwhelmed;
2. tried stationary defence - was taking too much time (probably could win);
3. moved throguh valley with different kind of forces, overwhelmed again;
4-6. tried to bait yetis into trolls multiple times while trying to sneak in and assassinate troll leader - never could complete the first part of the plan;

won by sneaking with some lvl1 forces for cover throught western mountains, killed gryphon leader with most of my forces and held defence there while Kalenz and some escort was on a stroll to the signpost.

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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 10 - Cliffs of Thoria

Post by Caladbolg » August 29th, 2016, 4:55 pm

(1) Level and version?
1.12.5, medium.

(2) Difficult? (1-10)
4. Not as difficult as I expected it to be.

(3) Objectives?
Adding "OR" would be good.

(4) Dialog and storyline?
Fine.

(5) Challenges?
None really.

(6) Fun? (1-10)
6. Relatively easy battle and Yetis make for slightly more interesting opponents than trolls and gryphons.

(7) Changes?
-make troll leader slightly more accessible. It's a bit of a hassle as is.
-prevent yetis from killing the gryphon leader
-I wouldn't mind another yeti, near the signpost; he'd be passive, blocking the path
-lack of ranged enemies makes this scenario easy despite having really hard-hitting/fast enemies; however, aside from rocklobbers, I don't know what would fit thematically... maybe a few drakes considering that they're nearby? A scouting party consisting of a few gliders and a burner?

Side note: I noticed that a few of my dwarves are loyal but don't have the ring thingy on their hp bar. It doesn't bother me but I found it a bit strange and I don't know if it's intended.

Strategy: Defensive play. Recalled lvl 2 units and slowly advanced, retreating slightly when enemies appeared so as to keep out of their range. Yetis were isolated one by one, slowed and surrounded. Meanwhile, other enemies fought amongst themselves in the fog. Then I advanced my whole army, picking off the remaining enemies and trying to maximize xp.
Turn by turn::
Stats: 498 start gold, 18/18 villages, 12 income, 342 end gold, 25 units , finished on turn 19/28, 2 recruits, 10 recalls, 6 advancements, 0 losses, 19 kills, +2% dmg dealt, -17(!)% dmg received

Playing defensively allowed me to stay out of the fray until enemies weakened each other so I could pick off the wounded units. Enemies are attacked when they're low on hp so they can be killed without receiving retaliation. Many are also attacked with ranged as they cannot retaliate. The results are seen from stats- compare dmg dealt (1170/1145) to dmg received (333/402). The low dmg received is likely why there is such a big disparity between real and expected received dmg percantage-wise.

The few beginning turns are a good application of defensive strategy I think.
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devavrata
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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 10 - Cliffs of Thoria

Post by devavrata » December 18th, 2016, 3:58 pm

No form for this scenario, so I copied the one for the last one and changed the name and number:
Content Feedback wrote:The Legend of Wesmere, scenario 10 - Cliffs of Thoria:
(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Battle for Wesnoth 1.8.3, Easy/Medium, Battle for Wesnoth 1.10.7 Hard.
Content Feedback wrote:(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8 - Time is tight, there are enemies that deal a lot of damage.
Content Feedback wrote:(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Not clear. There are two objetives, "Take Kalenz to the post" and "Kill all enemy leaders", but victory is achieved as soon as any of them is achieved. As a matter of fact, you cannot achieve both.
Content Feedback wrote:(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Clear. Great music.
Content Feedback wrote:(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Few gold, powerful enemies start to come my way, so I realize I need to play defensive, get back to the forest where I start and wait there for the enemies to come in in small quantities. It played off nicely and I still got enough time for Kalenz to reach the post (though his trip proved unnecessary as I did reach victory by slaying the enemy leaders fist). I arrived just in time to witness a yeti killing the gryphon king.
Content Feedback wrote:(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8 - It is fun to watch the enemies fighting amongst themselves.
Content Feedback wrote:(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
How to make it more interesting... rather than starting at the botton of the map, starting at a point where are enemies in every direction so you have to move.
Content Feedback wrote:(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No
Content Feedback wrote:(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
-

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