14 - Human Alliance

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Velensk
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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 14 - Human Alliance

Post by Velensk » January 3rd, 2014, 4:01 pm

I decided that it would be a good idea to provide a replay to help those who find themselves struggling to this scenario and lacking a fleet of Faerie.

1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
medium, 1.10.7

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
10. It's been a long time since a scenario has taken me more than 4 tries. Also, as I only reload from start and there is a lot of intense combat all throughout you have to be pretty careful with taking risks.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
My German isn't great but I got the idea.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialogue and storyline of the scenario?
Again, my German isn't great.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
You have to get pretty lucky with how your ally acts. I was able to support him but I find that if his units get taken out too quick you quickly find yourself in an untenable situation.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
10. I love large field battles like this one where the player gets to exercise strategy as well as tactics. It made me wish I had lancers.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Give your ally a better AI, one that is ToD dependent. EDIT: Also, would be nice if when the reinforcements show up it would look like enough to actually matter in an engagement of this size.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Only the difficulty.
Attachments
DLVW-Allianz_mit_den_Me..._Wiederholung_anzeigen.gz
(138.15 KiB) Downloaded 227 times
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."

Kingslayer
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Joined: October 5th, 2010, 9:42 am

Re: V1.9/1.10 - 14 - Human Alliance

Post by Kingslayer » March 13th, 2014, 11:07 pm

1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
hard, 1.10.0

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
11

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Pretty basic

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialogue and storyline of the scenario?
Clear, but just filler.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Ally is an idiot, castle is horrible for defending, overall unbeatable

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
1. Absolutely shambolic scenario that ruins the campaign.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Scrap the whole map/setting. If there must be a big "defend a siege" scenario, make it actually playable by having good terrain, and an ally that doesn't understand strategy.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
The fact that the gold ration is 5-1 in favor of your enemies

dabber
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Joined: April 2nd, 2014, 6:41 pm

Re: V1.9/1.10 - 14 - Human Alliance

Post by dabber » April 2nd, 2014, 6:56 pm

1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.10.7 Hard. Earlier versions both medium and hard.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
9. On hard, I had to start over a few times. After winning once, I eventually discovered I had lost too many troops (most of them) and couldn't win a later scenario, so had to come back and redo this one.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Perfect.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialogue and storyline of the scenario?
Dialog is fine, storyline is good.
The one big flaw is the return of the other elven troops. Sticking them in the middle is dumb. The map keeps expanding for the orcs to get reinforcements, why not do the same for the elven reinforcements? (to the north or east)

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Sending enough troops south early, even though they do nothing for a bit. I have to defend the ally keep in numbers before he gets killed.
The big challenge is the disconnect between the two goals - keeping your troops alive (stay in woods) vs defending the ally (stuck in open).

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
9. I love the map and the scale, but dang it is hard.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Bring the elven reinforcements in a different location.
A better designed allied keep, and/or more money for the ally would be good too.
I'd actually like to see the second to last wave or orcs have a bit more money, or a bit more income.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Lots of them.

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Maiklas3000
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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 14 - Human Alliance

Post by Maiklas3000 » June 29th, 2014, 12:12 pm

(1) Level, version, and gold? Hard, 1.11.15, 732 starting gold, lost one loyal in a previous scenario.
(2) Difficult? (1-10) 9.5. I was barely able to beat it with 732 gold. 523 gold was insufficient.
(3) Objectives? Clear.
(4) Dialog? I like the dialog.
(5) Challenges? With three main areas of battle, deciding on a strategy is daunting. I had played this scenario before under 1.8.2, but it has changed a bit since then. What finally worked for me was to fight in the northwest woods until my reinforcements arrive (turn 9), and then run like hell the next night (turns 11 and 12). I only ran to the area of the keeps, but that was enough to reduce the impact of troops coming in from the south and prevent me from getting flanked. It helped to use Rangers and Woses to trick the enemy into crossing the water at blocked points. Meanwhile, of course I sent troops to kill the trolls and a few to reinforce my ally at the castle. I had intended to send two healers to the northwest woods force, but I forgot and only sent one (plus two Shamans.) By the time the trolls were defeated, the castle was in such bad shape that I flew both my Shydes there from the troll area, so I was still hurting for healing in the northwest. I should have sent more forces to the castle or else not sent Olurf and Cleodil there - the enemy moves towards leaders. As it was, the castle was surrounded, preventing me from shifting units in most cases, a very dangerous situation. After I hit "end turn" on the last turn, that was the most tense enemy turn I've ever experienced, because several of my castle troops were seriously injured, which could have led to the loss of a loyal or defeat. I ended with 6 HP for Cleodil, 21 HP for Olurf, 11 HP for Laril (loyal Shyde, who missed a 97% attack the previous round that would have AMLA'ed her), and 15 HP for Arkildur (loyal Marshal.)
Wesnoth - LoW - Human Alliance - after final turn.jpg
Wesnoth - LoW - Human Alliance - after final turn.jpg (125.93 KiB) Viewed 3757 times
Obviously, I would have lost if there had been one more turn.

I lost a Druid, two Heroes, a Dwarf Lord and probably others I am not remembering, but I lost no loyals, and my roster improved considerably, so overall it was a huge victory. The statistics say 22 advancements, 13 losses, 140 kills.

(6) Fun? (1-10) 8, it's the scenario I most love to hate. You feel great when you finally beat it.
(7) Changes? I agree with the above reviewer that the reinforcements come at an illogical location. I suggest bringing them in at "the troll spit", i.e., the hills at the edge of the board northwest of the troll keep, north of the 6 hex swamp. No need to expand the map, I think. I got only 3 units for reinforcements. If that's the norm, then I suggest increasing it.

Everybody complains about the ally, so let me not be an exception. The AI is atrocious. I'll be in a situation where there will be an allied Swordsman holding a critical hex in the castle, and I leave him a nice juicy target right there, so I'm thinking everything will be okay. But no. The Swordsman promptly jumps out of the castle and into the moat, to his instant doom. This also breaks my line, causing me to lose a unit or two. The castle is so small that I have no margin for such errors. A general complaint I have about Wesnoth is that there should be a "favor terrain" setting for the AI, which would cause it to keep units in good terrain in most cases. It would be ideal for siege situations like this one. Could you at least set the AI to maximum defensiveness?

One thing I don't like is the minimum gold, 150 on hard. It's nice if scenarios are beatable with minimum gold, though not easily and probably with high losses and/or ending negative on gold. It would have to be maybe 400 or 500 gold to give the player some dim chance. Part of the problem here is the 80% gold carryover for this campaign. Because of that, you're setting the minimum gold extremely low. You could consider rebalancing the campaign for 40% carryover. Or just increase that minimum. The player is going to end negative on gold anyway. And fewer players would get stuck and submit hostile reviews.

I would suggest decreasing the enemy gold too, if for no other reason than to reduce the time it takes for each turn. (It's painful with an acceleration of 8.)

(8) Restarts? Two losses, then I replayed three scenarios (back to Bounty Hunters) for more gold, and then Human Alliance was still a nightmare, but I won. No save-reloads here or at any time previous in the campaign.
Attachments
LoW-Human_Alliance_replay.gz
Use very high acceleration or skip animation.
(251.34 KiB) Downloaded 197 times

Cloverr92
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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 14 - Human Alliance

Post by Cloverr92 » September 6th, 2014, 1:20 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Medium difficulty ,version was 1.11.15
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear,surive the hoards of orcs somehow.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
I like the way how humans asked us to hold on to north side while they deal with rest,gave a
feeling of a very epic massive war, and those sounds also of a brazen horn was a nice addition.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Survive the nightime is hard specially the last two night was very hard.To counter this i pushed
hard at daytime so that orcs are streched thin and retreated back at night time.i started with 500 plus gold and
had two enchantress also,the army returning back from kalian was very strong so once they came i didnt faced
much problems
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7, It was quite fun only downside being the amount of time ai takes to comlpete its turn.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
At dusk time like turn 15-16 maybe a small vanguard of army of human army could arrive say like 5 cavalary men,
that i think would help a lot in surviving the following night.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
At turn 5th i lost some of my men where trolls got too lucky hitting them all times on a good 60-70% defence and my
ally was having a very bad luck also so had to reload at that point,rest all went very smoothly.
Rest apart this scenario is not impossible as some ppl mention,its doable with average luck.
Attached below is a replay of the scenario.
Attachments
LoW-Human_Alliance_replay.gz
LOW Human Allliance replay version 1.11.15
(168.92 KiB) Downloaded 162 times

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Inky
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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 14 - Human Alliance

Post by Inky » September 25th, 2014, 4:41 am

Original Post (version 1.10.4)
Spoiler:
(1) Level and version? Hard, 1.12.4, 538 starting gold
(2) Difficult? (1-10). 2 to survive; 9 to kill all leaders (which you clearly aren't supposed to do).
(3) Objectives? Clear. [As it is now, an alternate objective to kill all leaders should be added, but even better would be to rebalance the scenario.]
(4) Dialog?
-Orcs mention reinforcements in the starting dialogue, but they do not get any reinforcements.
-I had wiped every single enemy off the map before the human reinforcements arrived on turn 22, so the dialogue did not exactly fit.
(5) Challenges? Killing the troll leader, and trolls in general.
(6) Fun? (1-10) 4 - At least it is playable now, but it still could use some rebalancing.
(7) Changes?
-Making the leaders passive will make it much more difficult to kill them.
-Just in case, add an objective to defeat all enemy leaders / alternate ending dialogue.
-Maybe remove the empty keeps as they are confusing.
-Some of the veterans appearing on turn 9 appear in the water instead of the forest, which looks a little weird.
-Controlling three sides is a bit tedious, especially the human side which is just spamming spearmen and some other units and attacking whatever is in sight. I think the AI can do this job just fine, as long as it doesn't recruit too many high level units.
-Needs to made more difficult now. In particular the southwestern orc is very, very weak.

(8) Restarts? I restarted from the beginning once, not because I was losing but because I wanted to try killing all enemy leaders.

Strategy for killing all leaders: The most difficult part is killing the troll leader. Therefore even though the other two leaders are an easier kill (in particular the southwest
orc can be rushed extremely early with spearman spam) it is better to leave them alone until the troll leader is dead so the troll leader doesn't get massive income.

Sent mass woses and all my sorceresses / enchantresses / shydes / Kalenz / dwarves to go kill the trolls while the elves easily held the line in the western forest and the humans held off the southwest orcs. Put the elves and some dwarves in the eastern forest and waited for a chance to get at the troll leader. Then I killed the southwest orc with my massive spearman / cavalry army, and finally on turn 21 I lure out and kill the northern orc leader with marksmen. On the enemy's turn 21 the last remaining orc suicides against a (very lucky) marksman, and so turn 22 is spent repeatedly pressing end turn.
Attachments
LoW-Human_Alliance_replay.gz
Wesnoth 1.12.4 / hard
(193.69 KiB) Downloaded 131 times
Last edited by Inky on September 19th, 2015, 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

stargazer
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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 14 - Human Alliance

Post by stargazer » October 27th, 2014, 7:29 pm

1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario?
1.10.7, hard
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8/10, formerly I would write 10/10 but now I found the strategy of surviving and this already does not seem to be too hard.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear enough
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialogue and storyline of the scenario?
Quite interesting
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
I had two major challenges: first and the hardest one is to save my human ally, another is to save elf forces for future missions especially the elves appearing at turn 9 amid the sea of enemies.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6/10, not very amusing since I was able to kill only one enemy leader
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Enable some control over ally's tactics, e.g make him to choose defensive mode rather then rushing on the enemy and make reinforcement to arrive at a bit quieter place.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Wrong tactics when a human ally was left without a good defense and died shortly after his forces had been exhausted.

vicente
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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 14 - Human Alliance

Post by vicente » December 12th, 2014, 2:06 am

I just found two minor bugs in this scenario in version 1.12.0.
1. There is no gold carry over for Galtrid from the scenario "Elves' Last Stand".
2. Eradinol was killed in the scenario "Elves' Last Stand", but still showed up in this scenario. It is better to imply that there is a bonus to keep the other two elf leaders alive in the scenario "Elve's Last Stand".

I have not test this scenario yet, but it would be better to put Galtrid as side 2 instead of side 4. It would be troublesome at the moment if one wants to replace a unit from Kalenz's side with one from Galtrid's side, as the orcs will sneak in.

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kxepal
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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 14 - Human Alliance

Post by kxepal » January 11th, 2015, 9:21 pm

1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario?
1.10.7: hard
1.12.0: hard
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
1.10.7: 9/10
1.12.0: 1/10
This scenario seems broken in 1.12: there are only 3 enemy leaders from the start, leaving a lot of camps empty. No reinforcements arrives for them at all. So at turn 9 field orc get crushed by human army all alone. North-east orc is no longer alive at this moment and only troll resists because of good terrain and taught units. When elvish support army arrives I was laugh since really there was no need in them. All this turns into easy walk with no challenge.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear enough
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialogue and storyline of the scenario?
1.10.7: Clear and interesting
1.12.0: Dialog about splitting forces between Ka'lian defence and help for humans appears twice: at the scenario beginning and when reinforcements arrives at turn 9.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
1.10.7: main challenges is to let human leader survive
1.12.0: no challenges at all
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
1.10.7: 10/10
1.12.0: 1/10
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
1.10.7: control ally army, give enemy more income
1.12.0: turn back more enemy leaders, give enemy more income
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
1.10.7: ensurance that human army will stand a little bit longer against orcish hordes while I'm handling north flank.
1.12.0: it's impossible to loose
,,,^..^,,,

Kente
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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 14 - Human Alliance

Post by Kente » January 18th, 2015, 4:50 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Hard 1.12
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4, it's more easy than in 1.10.7.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
clear, but i think someone should warning that you need to fight the Trolls aswell (maybe it could be not that clear for new players)
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Clear, nothing needs to change for me
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
in 1.12 i didn't find any big challenge, anyway if had levelled some more Woses in the previous scenarios, it would be even more easy
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
the first half of the game (i said until turn 12-14) it's fun, then it's just an orcs/trolls massacre
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
well, this will be long. I like i can controll the Human factions (in the previous version, this was one of the most annoying thing). I like you can control now 2 elves side and i like i have some more gold t recruit a decent army. The AI has a really good upkeep that allows to spam units, which is good.
But (and this is a big but) the south-western leader dies too much faster. If you recruit (as Human faction) 2 keep of level 1 + a couple of white mage + 5/6 level 2 and 3 units you can go kill the southeastern leader very fast, in this way you can switch your attention only to North. The Northeastern leader it's not a treat (because forest+river combo further you have the an entire side which can control big part of the terrain). Only the Troll leader is a treat (which is good) but it's easily controlled with spamming Wose+some dwarves+ druids/shamans. Some trolls will be able to go to Human faction, but he has so good upkeep he can recruit some units to protect him even if the main army is going to east. After the south-eastern orc is killed, you can move your army and kill the troll leader (which i did in turn 22).
I could probably defeat the Northeastern leader too, if i wanted, but i didn't care.

My suggestion is to add 1 or 2 more Orcs Leaders in the camps in Southeastern, in this way they could recruit more orcs and it will be harder remove all the Southeastern leader before the ending of turns (maybe it could be rise the enemy upkeep as well to balance, i think but not sure, it depends how harder should be this scenario)
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
no

JMichael
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Joined: February 19th, 2013, 4:25 am

1.12.2 News from the Front

Post by JMichael » June 18th, 2015, 5:20 am

Wesnoth 1.12.2

During the interlude "News from the Front", the regular characters (Kalenz, Landar, Olurf) appear to have "reverted": Landar in a level 1 Archer, Kalenz is a level 1 Fighter, Olurf is level 2 but has no experience...

Is this deliberate? Doesn't matter because I never get to play?

JMichael
Posts: 22
Joined: February 19th, 2013, 4:25 am

1.12.2 - 14 - Human Alliance - wrong statistics

Post by JMichael » June 19th, 2015, 2:41 am

Wesnoth 1.12.2

During Aldar's turn, Statistics->Recruits shows combined results for Aldar and the Orcs, both in the summary on the Statistics page, and in the Details under Recruits.
Attachments
LoW-Human_Alliance_Turn_3_Aldar.gz
(198.12 KiB) Downloaded 133 times

JMichael
Posts: 22
Joined: February 19th, 2013, 4:25 am

1.12.2 - 14 - Human Alliance - unit profile hidden

Post by JMichael » June 19th, 2015, 2:45 am

Aldar is able to recruit many units I've never seen. When I try to view the Profile of one of these units (e.g., Cavalryman), I'm told I must discover the unit before I can view its description.

These secret units do not appear in the unit tree under Humans in the Help.

Am I supposed to be forced to buy one of these to see its detailed description?

gfgtdf
Developer
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Re: 1.12.2 News from the Front

Post by gfgtdf » June 22nd, 2015, 10:37 pm

If i remember correctly this scenario had to be changed for the mp version of this campaign. The problem was that the mp server in 1.12 (the 1.13 server does not have this limitation) only accepts scenarios with less than 10 sides, so some (orcish) sides were removed, it was intented that those orcish reinforments are then just added to the orcis side instead of having a seperate orcish sides but it seems like something went wrong.

JMichael wrote:Wesnoth 1.12.2

During the interlude "News from the Front", the regular characters (Kalenz, Landar, Olurf) appear to have "reverted": Landar in a level 1 Archer, Kalenz is a level 1 Fighter, Olurf is level 2 but has no experience...

Is this deliberate? Doesn't matter because I never get to play?
This sounds like a bug.
JMichael wrote:Aldar is able to recruit many units I've never seen. When I try to view the Profile of one of these units (e.g., Cavalryman), I'm told I must discover the unit before I can view its description.

These secret units do not appear in the unit tree under Humans in the Help.

Am I supposed to be forced to buy one of these to see its detailed description?
This is also a bug. You can work around this by eigher playing a game wehre you can recruit those units normally (for example a mp game) or by using :discover command.
Scenario with Robots SP scenario (1.11/1.12), allows you to build your units with components, PYR No preperation turn 1.12 mp-mod that allows you to select your units immideately after the game begins.

Violet-n-red
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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 14 - Human Alliance

Post by Violet-n-red » July 1st, 2015, 9:22 am

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
normal, 1.12.2
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
completely clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
good, but a bit broken, will put details in the end
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
trying not to rush the orcs! too tempting.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
2. was not hard defending in the woods. i went on the offencive two times, but started losing red army's 2-3lvl units and decided to abandon that idea, even tho i was winning
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
something about removing control of our allies and splitting one huge enemy faction into 3 smaller ones? there was another campaign, Liberty i think, there player could order ally to defend or attack soembody. would be nice to incorporate that AI and funtionality in this campaign. currently having multiple huge armies is not challenging, but just a bit bothersome - just a lot of moving weaker units back and forth for healing. and there's not mchu strategizing - terrain does that for the player. the only thing required from player is to sit and wait :c
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
i was close to killing all enemy commanders, but lost too many levelled units, so i reloaded and started playing without rushing forward.

dialogue and events are a bit broken: same dialogue repeats on the first and ninth turns. and on the ninth turn our reinforcements consists out of just one single archer =/
//edit:also, orc reinforcements never arrived. this made me bald and foolish and i charged both borcish generals. than means than more than two hundred gold coins per turn were not split between three leaders anymore and troll chief started hiring full keep of trolls. worst mistake of my life!!!

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