14 - Human Alliance

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chak_abhi
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14 - Human Alliance

Post by chak_abhi » January 21st, 2012, 3:07 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Medium, 1.9.10
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
Would have been 10+, if not I had brought some changes.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Quite clear,hold your ground against enemies some 10 times stronger & protect a stupid ally :evil: .
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Clear, with some changes from what I had noticed in BfW 1.8x.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Everything in this scenario seems to be challenging. I don't need to repeat the things posted in every other post of this forum.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
In unedited form 1 or 2. But with my changes it goes up to 7-8.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I have made quite a few changes. Please see below.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
If I was to play this scenario in unedited form there would have been a lot of such events. However after my changes there aren't such things.

This scenario is always my bane when I play LoW, and is the only factor for which I'm afraid of playing this campaign. In BfW 1.8.4 some changes were made to suit the player better, but I was shocked to find them removed in BfW 1.9.10. So I made some changes. I gave the human ally 100 more gold & a large base income. I also reduced the starting gold and income of the enemies. And with each enemy wave the humans receive some additional gold. I also changed the recruitment pattern of the humans and made them recruit L1s & L2s but no L3s. This gives them a great strength of numbers. What more, I started the battle at first watch, so that the first encounter between the humans and orcs occur at daytime. This gives the humans the upper hand in dealing with the first wave.
If anyone finds this scenario hard, he/she can download the scenario file given below which includes my changes. The original file needs to be replaced with this.
Attachments
14_Human_Alliance.cfg
(31.83 KiB) Downloaded 359 times

icerom
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Re: V1.7/1.8 - Scenario Review: LoW 14 - Human Alliance

Post by icerom » January 26th, 2012, 8:07 pm

Content Feedback wrote:The Legend of Wesmere, scenario 14 - Human Alliance:

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
1. medium, 1.9.9

The rest is like everyone has said. I can't imagine how hard this scenario was before you made it easier. However, on my second try the human ally didn't get killed until the 19th turn without any help from me, so I figure all I need is to get a little help over to win. I'll also need to work on lowering my losses.

glandis
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Re: V1.7/1.8 - Scenario Review: LoW 14 - Human Alliance

Post by glandis » January 28th, 2012, 3:20 am

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.9.14, hard
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
10
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
very
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
OK
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Couldn't protect human
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
1
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Needs to be a bit easier
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Yup - trying to defend the human castle/leader.

I played this on 1.8.x, and found it quite difficult but enjoyable and - ultimately - winnable. For some reason in 1.9, it's become unbeatable for me. I thought I remembered being able to recruit in the human fortress (once I got a leader there), and that plus capturing a bunch of villages from my ally got me enough income to spam protection while holding out in the north. Couldn't do that in 1.9.14 (only one keep hex the human leader never leaves), and 4 or 5 attempts at other strategies all failed.

The chak_abhi version made things too easy - I sent some forces west in the starting forest, and that pulls enough western orc attention away from the humans that they walked all over the orcs. The forces I sent to reinforce the keep were never even needed. I like the time of day change and the change in the composition of the human forces - that may be enough right there, maybe with a SLIGHT change in gold (less for orcs more and/or more for human). I may try and figure out WML and try that, but after all the failed tries, I'm moving on in the campaign for now.

cephalo
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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 14 - Human Alliance

Post by cephalo » March 24th, 2012, 12:06 am

I really dislike the tomato surprise in this one. I had stretched out hoping to kill the northern leaders and was not expecting how the additional waves arrived. Their needs to be more info at the beginning so that I don't get caught by several new keeps being thrown down in the middle of my loose formation.

SilverHx
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Re: V1.7/1.8 - Scenario Review: LoW 14 - Human Alliance

Post by SilverHx » March 24th, 2012, 5:43 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.10.0, both medium and hard.
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
It is so inconsistent with the rest of the campaign difficulty that is probably out of ranking.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
OK.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
OK.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario
Keep the ally alive.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
1, protecting suicidal allies is not exactly fun.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
See below.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Most of my restarts were due to my ally not being able to protect himself long enough.

This scenario needs to be balanced. I first attempted it in hard, and couldn't beat it no matter how hard I tried, so I just lowered the campaign difficulty, thinking the hard setting was too much for me, but it turned out I couldn't beat it in normal either!

It *is* probably beatable in 1.10 somehow, but it takes way more skill than the other missions in the same campaign, that's why it definitely should be made easier. The only way I could beat it is by using droid 2 and directly controlling my ally's armies, and it actually turned out into a fun defensive scenario. I think that if the ally is given a little less gold, and if it's made controllable by the player, that's enough balancing for the most part.

If you don't want the player to control the ally, please give less gold to the reinforcements, or at least make it that only 2 leaders spawn instead of three each time reinforcements approach. Also, adding another keep in the human castle can be incredibly useful so you can send Olruf and summon dwarves, which are excellent defenders.

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taptap
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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 14 - Human Alliance

Post by taptap » March 27th, 2012, 12:48 am

So... the orc army of over 150 L2 units encircling >30 elvish and dwarvish veterans split into two groups and preparing itself for killing them all suddenly retreats when some odd horsemen and knights appear that wouldn't last a single night. Make the spawn dependent on the situation on the map so that it is believable. At least 20+ very experienced (mix of L2 and L3) units would look better (and still would have no chance if you let the AI play it out).

I like it after winning :) but I would seriously consider giving the AI ally a considerable base income (at least you see some blue units doing some work in the second half of the scenario), you can reduce the amount of villages somewhat in exchange.

The second reinforcement of the orcs is too late to intervene on hard other than by wolves (that is what basically saved me)
I am a Saurian Skirmisher: I'm a real pest, especially at night.

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Ninjuri
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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 14 - Human Alliance

Post by Ninjuri » May 4th, 2012, 7:01 am

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
easy 1.10.2
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
10
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
very
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
The shock and awe factor of a massive orcish siege was pretty mesmerizing, if i didn't have to actually be the one to take it on.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Trying to contend with the sheer volume of troops and buying power of the enemy. I actually had to leave my base behind and run to hide in my ally's, the same way a kid that has a nightmare in the middle of the night runs to his parents. Even after doing this, i got stuck on the very last turn, always when i load it, either one of my heros dies, or the allied hero. I don't want to start over from the beginning because of how long it took me to get to this point.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Make it beatable for someone like me, i put every strategy that i know to use and still ended up in disaster. Dwarvish guardsmen in the hills with their steadfast ability, elvish units stationed in the villages, with wose backup nearby hiding. Occupying forested choke-points surrounded by water to give me the edge. Letting my leaders take a few hits when i'm not using them to recruit. Turning tail when i couldn't hold out any longer- All of these combined could not save me.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Yes, as mentioned above, i am stuck on the very last turn and keep dying.

To illustrate just how carefully i planned my defensive positions and employed the best tactics, i am attaching a copy of my autosave. Take a look at it, there is no way you can tell me this is my fault.
Attachments
LoW-Human_Alliance-Auto-Save17.gz
(196.46 KiB) Downloaded 276 times
Fate is against me.

chak_abhi
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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 14 - Human Alliance

Post by chak_abhi » May 5th, 2012, 10:56 am

Ninjuri wrote:(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
easy 1.10.2
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
10
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
very
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
The shock and awe factor of a massive orcish siege was pretty mesmerizing, if i didn't have to actually be the one to take it on.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Trying to contend with the sheer volume of troops and buying power of the enemy. I actually had to leave my base behind and run to hide in my ally's, the same way a kid that has a nightmare in the middle of the night runs to his parents. Even after doing this, i got stuck on the very last turn, always when i load it, either one of my heros dies, or the allied hero. I don't want to start over from the beginning because of how long it took me to get to this point.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Make it beatable for someone like me, i put every strategy that i know to use and still ended up in disaster. Dwarvish guardsmen in the hills with their steadfast ability, elvish units stationed in the villages, with wose backup nearby hiding. Occupying forested choke-points surrounded by water to give me the edge. Letting my leaders take a few hits when i'm not using them to recruit. Turning tail when i couldn't hold out any longer- All of these combined could not save me.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Yes, as mentioned above, i am stuck on the very last turn and keep dying.

To illustrate just how carefully i planned my defensive positions and employed the best tactics, i am attaching a copy of my autosave. Take a look at it, there is no way you can tell me this is my fault.

In my opinion you have got nearly everything wrong (sorry to say)!
1. You have failed to level up all hero characters--they are at L1, how can you expect them to hold out against so many orc & troll veterans?
2. You must have scattered your units at the beginning with the disastrous consequence of having no veterans at the end. You have to divide your forces into 2 groups--one should have a healer, 2 sorceresses & 4 units of fighter line at least. This should move east to eliminate the trolls. The other group should hold position in the west against the 1st wave and the retreat to the human keep. The reinforcements arriving at turn 9 should also be moved south.
3. Your starting gold was only 256. You need at least 400 to have any chance of victory.
4. Judging from your replay I can guess that you do not have any spare flying units. So even if you can scrape a lucky win here you cannot conquer the next scenarios.
5. You may be a newbie to Wesnoth. No wonder this scenario appears unbeatable to you; even experienced players have difficulty in tackling this. My suggestion is you download the file I had posted in the beginning of the forum, replace the corresponding scenario file with this (located in "Battle for Wesnoth/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios" in the dictionary of installation). Trust me, it is much easier and much time sparing & (in my opinion) much more enjoyable (if you are not an expert of course).

Enjoy playing Wesnoth.

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Ninjuri
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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 14 - Human Alliance

Post by Ninjuri » May 5th, 2012, 5:56 pm

1. You have failed to level up all hero characters--they are at L1, how can you expect them to hold out against so many orc & troll veterans?
I didn't expect them to be the ones taking on veterans in the first place, i expected them to lend a hand on the battlefield but ultimately keep themselves in the safest positions so the units could do the work, that's what they're there for.
You have to divide your forces into 2 groups--one should have a healer, 2 sorceresses & 4 units of fighter line at least.
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by sorceresses, and which one of my heros was able to recruit them?
Your starting gold was only 256. You need at least 400 to have any chance of victory.
This should be self explanatory. If it is impossible to win without 400 gold, then why is the starting gold under 400? Since i have only 256, why would they even let me waste my time trying the scenario in the first place?
Judging from your replay I can guess that you do not have any spare flying units. So even if you can scrape a lucky win here you cannot conquer the next scenarios.
Wait what? This one really confused me. Where in the world was i supposed to get flying units in the first place? In what scenario could i possibly have acquired them? I've never even seen any.
Fate is against me.

chak_abhi
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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 14 - Human Alliance

Post by chak_abhi » May 5th, 2012, 7:03 pm

Ninjuri wrote:
1. You have failed to level up all hero characters--they are at L1, how can you expect them to hold out against so many orc & troll veterans?
I didn't expect them to be the ones taking on veterans in the first place, i expected them to lend a hand on the battlefield but ultimately keep themselves in the safest positions so the units could do the work, that's what they're there for.
You have to divide your forces into 2 groups--one should have a healer, 2 sorceresses & 4 units of fighter line at least.
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by sorceresses, and which one of my heros was able to recruit them?
Your starting gold was only 256. You need at least 400 to have any chance of victory.
This should be self explanatory. If it is impossible to win without 400 gold, then why is the starting gold under 400? Since i have only 256, why would they even let me waste my time trying the scenario in the first place?
Judging from your replay I can guess that you do not have any spare flying units. So even if you can scrape a lucky win here you cannot conquer the next scenarios.
Wait what? This one really confused me. Where in the world was i supposed to get flying units in the first place? In what scenario could i possibly have acquired them? I've never even seen any.
The campaign LoW has a very important part--using the Elvish Shaman line properly. Elvish Shamans advance either to Elvish Druid (can heal & cure), and Elvish Sorceress (cannot heal, but has magical arcane attacks). The Druids advance to Elvish Shydes (L3) and the Sorceresses advance to Elvish Enchantresses and then to Elvish Sylphs (L4). The Shydes & Sylphs can fly, and have a major role to play in at least one of the later scenarios (where foot units cannot move properly due to frozen ground). If you face difficulty in levelling the Shamans then you must play the novice level campaigns like "Heir to the Throne" or "An Orcish Incursion" to learn their proper use before playing LoW.
The starting gold in any case is just a baseline. Sometimes it is deliberately set at a low level so that you rely more on the gold earned from the previous scenarios. In this case you must replay at least the previous scenario and try to finish quick enough.
In any campaign you must level the leader(s) quickly. Levelled up leaders provide many advantages--they deal great damage to enemy units, they can act as damage sinkers, and they sometimes have additional qualities like leadership which increases the strength of the adjacent lower level units of the same side.

Hope I am clear enough this time :) .

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Ninjuri
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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 14 - Human Alliance

Post by Ninjuri » May 6th, 2012, 12:39 am

I already beat those campaigns, (and all the other novice-level ones), because i am playing them in order. I know full-well the proper use of shamans. :annoyed:

At the very least, leveling up a bunch of shamans seems like a way too specific requirement to be able to advance in a campaign, especially since that would mean sacrificing experience from a bunch of other units that i want to level up.
Fate is against me.

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The_J
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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 14 - Human Alliance

Post by The_J » May 27th, 2012, 12:17 am

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

v1.10.2, Medium

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

10+

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Not great, but okay.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Standing against the awful amount of orcs and defending the ally.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

2 or 3. Besides the difficulty, the number of units and different players make the turns too long, which is problematic when you have to reload...and you have to.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Less units *cry*.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Yeah, the tons of units.
chak_abhi wrote: 3. Your starting gold was only 256. You need at least 400 to have any chance of victory.
4. Judging from your replay I can guess that you do not have any spare flying units. So even if you can scrape a lucky win here you cannot conquer the next scenarios.
...really? I guess I'm screwed then.
I only start with 330 gold, no druids/shydes (besides Cleodil) and no loyal units.
My heroes are all L3, and my reinforements are quite okay (9 L3s and 1 L2; no druid/shyde), but are not fast enough.

In my first attempt, my main forces were pushing into the northwest (worked okay), the second troop killed the trolls, but did not reach the castle in time.
In the second attempt now, the main troop headed to the castle, but I have barely enough units to fill all the squares, and certainly not enough units for shuffling. Not that this would help, the castle is totally surrounded, and the troll troop is still at least 2 turns away (but got a druid in the meantime). Thanks to the AI there's also a L3 orc warlord and an orc fighter with only 3XP missing from upleveling in the horde. And it's just turn 12.

I wonder if it's worth trying again, or if I should forget it. Redoing the last scenario for more money will not help, because the lack of gold is probably due to the scenario before, which I finished relatively late (turn 26 of 28). I don't think I want to start over there.

alluton
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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 14 - Human Alliance

Post by alluton » May 27th, 2012, 6:58 pm

The Legend of Wesmere, scenario 14 - Human Alliance:

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Medium 1.10.2
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
10
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Dialog could be better. Example: More of them arrive could have some kind of an emotion on it. Perhaps some cavalryman could come to help human leader during the map?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Major challanges were: Orcs from south attacking. I found it very hard to form a line there whit out taking heavy losses.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
It is fun scenario but watching 5mins of enemy turns to find out that you leade got attacked by 3 sharpshooter orcish warriors and made him 70 dmg. Lets say: 2-3.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Something to make southern line more defensible.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Had to go back to get more gold.


Edit: I have many times on many games tought that computer cheats. But extending map to create new keeps whit new leaders is something I've never seen before :)
"This game cured me of my real life addiction."
-Flameslash

golemsci
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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 14 - Human Alliance

Post by golemsci » September 18th, 2012, 12:46 pm

1) Medium, 1.10
2)10
3) The objectives are clear, but it might have been nice to know that more keeps were going to sprout.
4) Pretty good.
5) I failed this scenario, I'm giving up. Actually, I didn't even play through that many turns, and only three attempts, but simply the impossibility of stemming the flow of enemy units was too much.
6) 1 - I just don't enjoy spending five minutes watching the enemy have each of their turns, while knowing that the amount of gold I came into the scenario with was probably insufficient anyway.
7) I'm frustrated with this campaign. Especially having so many of my high-level and loyal units left behind after the K'alian, and battles too large for my liking.

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taptap
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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 14 - Human Alliance

Post by taptap » September 22nd, 2012, 10:04 am

golemsci wrote:7) I'm frustrated with this campaign. Especially having so many of my high-level and loyal units left behind after the K'alian, and battles too large for my liking.
Quite a number of your veterans will show up if you stay a little longer - it will be still very hard, but it will look much more possible then.
I am a Saurian Skirmisher: I'm a real pest, especially at night.

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