V1.5/1.6 SP - Scenario Review: LoW 7 - Elves' Last Stand

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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 7 - Elves' Last Stand

Post by Content Feedback » December 9th, 2008, 5:33 am

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Medium and Hard 1.5.6
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Interesing
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Blue leader didn't recruit. However, this helped a lot since I was able to amass serious experience. Best to leave him unable to recruit.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
9, 4 if blue recruits and gets in my way.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Clearly separate the Enemy and Ally Objective locations since the map cannot be browsed when the cmd message dialogue is being shown. I found it very hard the first time to give the leader's the orders that I wanted, since the location names were all unknown. Maybe add a 'defend your own keep' option to help get first-timers better aquainted.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
None. I got the green leader to move to the south tower on turn 4 (hard) and was easily able to save everyone and wipe the ai enemies.
(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
There are not nearly enough comments.
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taemyr
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 7 - Elves' Last Stand

Post by taemyr » January 21st, 2009, 4:27 am

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.5.8 Medium
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
6, I didn't split my forces so I got a bit short on time.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Interesting. I assumed when facing the choice of hardened fighters vs rawer recruits that the choice was between higher level units, but more time availiable.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Time.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Nothing in particular. As before, it's too easy to insure that all fighting is in forest, so that detracts a bit.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No


Was there an option tp tell my allies what to do in this scenario?

generalvalter
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 7 - Elves' Last Stand

Post by generalvalter » January 21st, 2009, 10:28 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.5.8 Medium
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
6, The gold totals for the enemies made my eyes pop out of my head, but the massive forests make it easier.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Interesting. I assumed when facing the choice of hardened fighters vs rawer recruits that the choice was between higher level units, but more time availiable.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Blue and green both acted like total idiots. Green split its forces so that every single shaman was in one group, and all the other units were in the other group. Both got annihilated quickly. And just like the previous scenario at the Kalian, blue made sure to get in my way as much as possible.

Also, there was quite a bit of lag on my computer. With each commander summoning upwards of thirty troops, it was hitting my framerate pretty hard.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8

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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 7 - Elves' Last Stand

Post by beetlenaut » January 24th, 2009, 8:21 am

version: 1.5.8
diffuculty: Hard

There are several bugs on this level. One is Olurf--he never appears. On turn 14, there was some dialog directed at him from my elves, but the dwarf's side of the conversation was missing, because so was he. Fortunately, I won without him. There is a steelclad named Olurf in the next level, but a message says he is missing, so I must be in debug mode. I don't know if I can continue without errors building up.

The ally command system is much tighter than it used to be, and works much better. However, there is never a mention of it, so a new player won't even know it exists. Also, it works on your saurian enemies in the next scenario!

Another problem is that once again, this scenario requires your allies to be lucky. It is a long way to green from the player's keep. By the time my first units reached the south end of blue's keep, he was poisoned and down to 20 HP. Those were my first, loyal, units! No recruits or recalls had time to reach him at all unless they were scouts. (Pretty useless against slurbows.) I told blue to defend him, and green to defend his own keep, but of course that doesn't actually do anything until it's too late. They recruit level one units who rush off to get killed. By the time enemies are near enough for the "defend" command to kick in, there aren't many ally units left. (None at all for green.) I did get lucky in that blue managed to level a rider who was able to draw the fire of the assassins and slurbows attacking the green leader for two whole turns (also lucky), and give me time to get there and kill them. It would be nice to raise the gold of green enough to get another castle of cannon fodder. You could also raise the gold of the enemies to compensate, but just give me time to get there!

The fact that "defend" in the command system doesn't seem to do anything is also a problem. I've read the wiki explanation of the [ai] tag, but I'm the minority I'll bet. Perhaps just a wording change would fix this: "Watch for enemies nearing..."? (Better yet would be more control of the AI from WML.)
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taemyr
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 7 - Elves' Last Stand

Post by taemyr » January 25th, 2009, 8:12 am

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.5.8 Hard
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
6, Having played the scenario on medium I am aware that the time constraints can be problematic
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Interesting. I assumed when facing the choice of hardened fighters vs rawer recruits that the choice was between higher level units, but more time availiable. There is no mention of control over allies in the dialog.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Time.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Nothing in particular. As before, it's too easy to insure that all fighting is in forest, so that detracts a bit, although on hard you really need this.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No

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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 7 - Elves' Last Stand

Post by fabi » January 25th, 2009, 2:11 pm

beetlenaut wrote:version: 1.5.8
diffuculty: Hard

There are several bugs on this level. One is Olurf--he never appears. On turn 14, there was some dialog directed at him from my elves, but the dwarf's side of the conversation was missing, because so was he. Fortunately, I won without him. There is a steelclad named Olurf in the next level, but a message says he is missing, so I must be in debug mode. I don't know if I can continue without errors building up.
I believe you can. All you lost is the experience that Olurf collected in Scenario 2 and 6.

Did you load a savegame from a previous version or did you start the campaign with Version 1.5.8?
Another problem is that once again, this scenario requires your allies to be lucky. It is a long way to green from the player's keep. By the time my first units reached the south end of blue's keep, he was poisoned and down to 20 HP. Those were my first, loyal, units! No recruits or recalls had time to reach him at all unless they were scouts. (Pretty useless against slurbows.) I told blue to defend him, and green to defend his own keep, but of course that doesn't actually do anything until it's too late. They recruit level one units who rush off to get killed. By the time enemies are near enough for the "defend" command to kick in, there aren't many ally units left. (None at all for green.) I did get lucky in that blue managed to level a rider who was able to draw the fire of the assassins and slurbows attacking the green leader for two whole turns (also lucky), and give me time to get there and kill them. It would be nice to raise the gold of green enough to get another castle of cannon fodder. You could also raise the gold of the enemies to compensate, but just give me time to get there!
You don't need to save Green, he is not part of a victory condition. It's nice to save him, maybe I could implement some sort of reward for it. But It's okay that this is a hard task on hard.

Thanks, Fabi

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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 7 - Elves' Last Stand

Post by beetlenaut » January 26th, 2009, 4:54 am

fabi wrote:Did you load a savegame from a previous version or did you start the campaign with Version 1.5.8?
Oh. I started from an old savegame that started on scenario 5. It didn't occur to me that it might make a difference.
fabi wrote:You don't need to save Green, he is not part of a victory condition.
I didn't notice that either! (It seems strange that blue can't die while green can, but OK.)
Maybe that will teach me to post at one in the morning.
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Bircoph
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 7 - Elves' Last Stand

Post by Bircoph » February 16th, 2009, 10:46 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.5.8+svn (r32800), hard.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Troll's leader die message doesn't appear, dunno why, maybe this is a bug.
Storyline is ok.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
I made additional condition for myself: to save Green leader, this is really challenging and interesting. I think this condition should be added to the win conditions on hard level (at least).

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
1) Save Green on hard.
2) Some story related to Green (returned troops or so on) and why they should be saved (on hard only).
3) Olurf appers too old: I won at turn 14.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
To save Green: I splitted army in 2 parts thus dealed with trolls longer...

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
I can't understand wtf the only choise I met in this campaign is commented out:
### disabled till after the stringfreeze, don't remove ####
makes a little explanation for me.
Per aspera ad astra!

200g
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 7 - Elves' Last Stand

Post by 200g » March 30th, 2009, 6:52 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
normal, 1.6 (german)
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
As clear as the blue sky.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Pretty clear, but more dialog would be appreciated. The German translation has some minor mistakes.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Blue leader desperately wanted to die. Apart from that it was almost too easy.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
- The AI behaves quite stupid. Blue leader almost got himself killed (if I hadn't intervened). Green leader hid in the southern woods after wasting his units. Although I gave them order to defend themselves and protect the city I could not make out any difference in their behaviour. It seems like the outcome of the scenario is much more dependent on how stupid your allies are this time, although I won on my first attempt. I'd make the AI stay in the city instead of running useless kamikaze attacks to recude the amount of luck the player needs to win.
- Once you kill the first wave there's nothing left to fight because the enemies have no gold due to their high upkeep. I'd balance out the villages to make sure the enemy has enough gold to keep this scenario interesting.
- When the dwarves arrived (round 14) the battle was pretty much over. They could have been of some use if they spawned in the northwest of the map or three, four rounds earlier.
- There should be some kind of reward for saving the green leader and/or finishing early, like a strong loyal unit for instance.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No, but it was close (blue leader got himself poisoned and down to one hp until he finally realized that he should go home).
(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
Didn't read.

I started the scenario with ~1000 gold, a handful of level three and around ten level two units. The troll leader died in round nine and the last two (pink and black) in round sixteen. At the end I had 295 gold and about ten level three and level two units each (which doesn't matter anyway :)).

I sent three waves of rookies and more experienced units to intercept the approaching trolls and sent my leader into the city, where I recruited two more waves of rookies to protect green leader and to secure the southern and western area beyond the river. When my reinforcements arrived, orange was quickly beaten up and I sent all my units (around 50) to approach black and pink (via the northern ford, the southern ford and thecountry way at orange's keep).

All together this was a pretty good scenario.
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santi
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 7 - Elves' Last Stand

Post by santi » June 5th, 2009, 5:52 am

Only question: How do we justify Galtrid recruiting Elvish Lords????

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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 7 - Elves' Last Stand

Post by fabi » June 5th, 2009, 2:59 pm

santi wrote:Only question: How do we justify Galtrid recruiting Elvish Lords????
I thought there could be some of them around at the Kalian.
Galtrid is the experienced warrior among them so he stays in command.

Or what exactly is there to justify about the recruitment?

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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 7 - Elves' Last Stand

Post by santi » June 5th, 2009, 6:10 pm

Mostly how come they have magical attacks....

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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 7 - Elves' Last Stand

Post by axelotl » June 13th, 2009, 12:58 am

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

1.6 easy; 1.6.2 hard

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

8

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Perhaps Cleodil should have a line or two?

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Keeping Galtrid alive. Meeting the turn limit.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

8

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

I started with 524 gold and a decent recall list and finished only on the last turn. I don't
think this is winnable on hard with only 100 minimum gold.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

No.
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santi
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 7 - Elves' Last Stand

Post by santi » December 9th, 2009, 10:43 am

You should have gotten 1800 gold in scenario 5. How did you end up wasting it all?
The key to the previous scenario is DON't OVERRECRUIT.

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V1.5/1.6 SP - Scenario Review: LoW 7 - Elves' Last Stand

Post by mod-zero » March 12th, 2010, 1:24 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

hard, 1.6.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

- (didnt finish yet)

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

not entirely clear:
Im supposed to protect the dwarf from the last scenario. He's a noshow.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

unclear (since dwarfs dont show up) and green is standing in the midst of enemies waiting to die.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Time. First of all, there are only 25 terms to finish the scenario which is not that much since there are 4 enemies. But even more annoying is that I have 1000 gold in the beginning (leftovers from the treasure 2 scenarios back), loads of lvl 3 units (leveled in the scenario before) and now I am supposed to send a huge army to war? The place is packed with units if i keep on recruiting..

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

1 (see (5), (6) for more information).

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Less units on the battlefield would be nice. Unlike starcraft, wesnoth units take up time and thus big wars are not that fun to play. In addition, add a comment that the player is in command of the elvish forces - I read here that I can set out orders for green/blue. On default, blue is doing nothing but swimming in the river around his fortress. Furthermore I have to watch orange and purple fight green without me intervening. AI-wars are no fun to watch and since they have about 15 fighting troops each I did something else while they were fighting their battle (I turned AI-moves off and it still took forever).

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Blue leader died once because i was not paying attention to orange move. Good addition for commands would be "send your leader/troops to .." so i can get him out of the way.

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?

-
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