07 - Elves' Last Stand

Feedback for the mainline single-player campaign Legend of Wesmere.

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devavrata
Posts: 119
Joined: August 30th, 2012, 8:59 pm

Re: V1.9/1.10 - 07 - Elves' Last Stand

Post by devavrata »

Content Feedback wrote:The Legend of Wesmere, scenario 7 - Elves' Last Stand:

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Battle for Wesnoth 1.8.3, Easy/Medium, Battle for Wesnoth 1.10.7 Hard.
Content Feedback wrote:(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8
Content Feedback wrote:(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear
Content Feedback wrote:(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Clear. The dwarves arrive too late.
Content Feedback wrote:(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The enemies played defensive! The northern orcs just crossed the river, joined the trolls and made an stand there in spite of being stronger than my army. The elves at the fortress are AI-controlled (even though at the earlier scenario they were player-controlled) and they just love getting into the water.
Content Feedback wrote:(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8 - This scenario clearly has the likes of a final battle - maybe the campaign originally ended here, before more scenarios were added.
Content Feedback wrote:(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Earlier arrival for the dwarves.
Content Feedback wrote:(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No
Content Feedback wrote:(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
-
tailings
Posts: 1
Joined: December 7th, 2017, 11:27 pm

Re: V1.9/1.10 - 07 - Elves' Last Stand

Post by tailings »

Content Feedback wrote:The Legend of Wesmere, scenario 7 - Elves' Last Stand:

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

Ver. 1.12.6 difficulty Medium

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

5. I had read the walkthrough beforehand and thus was prepared to recall/recruit a large army. I had 1800g at my disposal, so was able to build an army of 125+ soldiers, which proved more than adequate. Good strategy kept losses to a minimum and only to new recruits. I did loose one lvl 2 that had begun as new recruit.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear enough, no confusion.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

I was puzzled by the Dwarves late arrival at the end of battle. The dialog didn't seem to match the event.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Spending all that gold. I typically like to use as small an army as possible, composed mostly of veterans. I really don't care for attrition spam, which is the general design of this scenario.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

4. I don't generally like big maps. Don't care for attrition spam. Cycling through all those units (n) is a major PITA. The way the enemy recruited in round robin fashion is really annoying.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Slightly smaller map, (with bigger keeps to compensate?). Have the AI recruit from one keep at a time until full, them move to the next keep.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

No.

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
Seto
Posts: 7
Joined: May 15th, 2013, 12:23 pm

Re: V1.9/1.10 - 07 - Elves' Last Stand

Post by Seto »

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Hard, 1.12.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
I came in with a lot of gold and was able to more or less match the AI's numbers (with a lot of lvl 2s as well). I wasn't ever in danger of losing the scenario, but I still couldn't turn my brain off and play mindlessly, I had to be careful of positioning in order to keep good units, so... 5 seems fair, I guess? I imagine it must be quite difficult with minimum gold, though.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
No problem there.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
That's due to the previous scenario, but for a first-time player, it's kind of ambiguous whether or not Olurf will show up in the north during the scenario. Other than that, it felt suitably epic. It's interesting that orcs remark that the elves didn't use the Ruby at the end.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Nothing was too hard. Not losing important units I guess, especially at night. The most challenging front was the Western one (I sent Landar's troops and a good number of Galtrid's troops over to help my western ally, but ended up pretty equally matched with the enemy)

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7 or 8. Nice big battle.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
It's alright as is.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No.
Hestelvar
Posts: 36
Joined: July 29th, 2016, 7:41 pm

Re: 07 - Elves' Last Stand

Post by Hestelvar »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.14.5
Solider (Easy)
Starting Gold (Kalenz 2050) + (Galtrid 598)
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5. Lots of units to fight and manage.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Perfectly clear and an interesting change from the usual “Defeat all enemy leaders”. That later victory condition seems unlikely to be achieved without triggering the first.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialogue and storyline of the scenario?
Olurf dialogue doesn’t fit. I suspect it may have been written for an earlier version of the is scenario when the dwarves arrive in time to participate in the battle. The combat being over renders pointless such lines as:
“Did ye think we’d let you have all the fun wi’ the orcs by yerselves?”
“... Enough, gentlemen, we have a battle to fight!”
etc.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
None. Picking the right location to set my defensive line was a minor challenge.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7
(7) What, if any, are the changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Give the player a reason to defend the Ka’lain. Perhaps the council elders must be protected there.
When the orcs flee, let them say their piece and then remove them from the map before the dwarves arrive. Their continued presence amplifies confusion inherent in the dialogue. Trim the map, no units go near the southern and eastern edges.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
None.
(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
N/a
Attachments
LoW - Elves’ Last Stand replay.gz
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Konrad2
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2760
Joined: November 24th, 2010, 6:30 pm

Re: 07 - Elves' Last Stand

Post by Konrad2 »

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

1.15.3, High Lord (Challenging)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

9

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Clear.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Not getting drowned by the horde of trolls while managing to counterattack before the time runs out.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

7

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Let the dwarves join before the battle ends.
And don't wipe out Olurfs recalls and don't create a new Olurf. Just use the one from the previous scenario.

Scenario stats:
Spoiler:
Attachments
LoW-Elves’ Last Stand replay.gz
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JoelPera
Posts: 15
Joined: June 9th, 2015, 7:29 am

Re: 07 - Elves' Last Stand

Post by JoelPera »

Hestelvar wrote: August 4th, 2019, 12:19 pm
Olurf dialogue doesn’t fit. I suspect it may have been written for an earlier version of the is scenario when the dwarves arrive in time to participate in the battle. The combat being over renders pointless such lines as:
“Did ye think we’d let you have all the fun wi’ the orcs by yerselves?”
“... Enough, gentlemen, we have a battle to fight!”
etc.
You might be interested to know this has been raised, see https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/5229
JoelPera
Posts: 15
Joined: June 9th, 2015, 7:29 am

Re: 07 - Elves' Last Stand

Post by JoelPera »

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

1.14.14, High Lord (Challenging)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

7

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Good enough.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Quite good.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Not getting overwhelmed by the troll side while my Kalian flank more or less pushed repelled the enemies, eventually killing both their leaders (Naga and Orc). By that time, we cleared the requirement of keeping them below 15..I doubt I had enough turns to kill the troll leader too.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

8 - I, too, liked the unconventional objective of keeping them under 15.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

The dialogue was broken but now someone raised it for me https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/5229
Zrevnur
Posts: 111
Joined: January 11th, 2020, 12:04 pm

Re: 07 - Elves' Last Stand

Post by Zrevnur »

Content Feedback wrote: September 8th, 2010, 4:45 pm The Legend of Wesmere, scenario 7 - Elves' Last Stand:

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Wesnoth 1.14.11, High Lord (Challenging), no reloading during campaign, played the scenario at least twice
Content Feedback wrote: September 8th, 2010, 4:45 pm (2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5 or 6, hard to say, the main challenge is that there are too many units so it takes a lot of time
Content Feedback wrote: September 8th, 2010, 4:45 pm (3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
I think the description is wrong - it says "below 15" but triggers at 15 or sth. Far as I remember I lost good XP due to that.
Content Feedback wrote: September 8th, 2010, 4:45 pm (4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Ok.
Content Feedback wrote: September 8th, 2010, 4:45 pm (5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
None.
Content Feedback wrote: September 8th, 2010, 4:45 pm (6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
3
Content Feedback wrote: September 8th, 2010, 4:45 pm (7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Not sure - too many units for a scenario in the middle. It makes the gameplay more about effort than about skill or strategy.
--
I dont like the gold mechanics. They dont make proper sense and knowledge of the future happenings in the campaign is too much of an advantage. It would be better to have a pool for the gold of all human allies played by the same single human player and then share that pool after the end for carry-over. Or at least pool together and share after end for carry-over without having a pool inside the scenario - thats probably easier to implement.
(If this point isnt clear - look at the replay - I didnt take any villages with red so red did go deeply into the red but that gold loss doesnt matter due to the questionable mechanics and I still get all the income from the villages for purple.)
Content Feedback wrote: September 8th, 2010, 4:45 pm (8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No.
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