07 - Elves' Last Stand

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07 - Elves' Last Stand

Post by Content Feedback » September 8th, 2010, 4:45 pm

The Legend of Wesmere, scenario 7 - Elves' Last Stand:

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?

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Re: V1.9/1.10 SP - Scenario Review: LoW 7 - Elves' Last Stan

Post by rmj » February 4th, 2011, 7:57 am

1. 1.9.3, normal.
2. 6 out of 10
3. Very clear.
4. It's a good dialog. It blends very well with the whole campaign.
5. Not recruiting cannon fodder on my first attempt.
6. I'll give it a 7, but that's because I hate losing level three units. The pleasure of leveling up units does not compensate for that.
7. When the dwarves show up, the tide of the battle has turned; there is merely the process of eliminating the leaders left.
8. The final enemy leader was under attack but still standing when the elf leader declared victory.

Note: in the next scenario (conversational) the first image of the elf leader speaking was a double image. After that it was fine.

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Re: V1.9/1.10 SP - Scenario Review: LoW 7 - Elves' Last Stan

Post by Mountain_King » March 30th, 2011, 11:06 pm

The Legend of Wesmere, scenario 7 - Elves' Last Stand:

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on? I've played it in 1.6, 1.7, 1.8, and now, 1.9.5. Difficulty was medium this time around.
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
6 or thereabouts. It's hard not to be attached to your units.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Crystal clear.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
As good as can be.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
A swarm of trolls. The Ka'lian was almost breached several times.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6 (or thereabouts) ;)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I can't think of any. The deploying of Olurf worked out much better than in previous versions.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario? Um...no.
(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better? Didn't read it.

Extra: I think there might be a bug in this scenario. The objectives say to "defeat all enemy leaders" but, I only got to defeat 2/4 and the victory event fired. :(
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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 07 - Elves' Last Stand

Post by taptap » March 13th, 2012, 12:34 am

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

1.10.1 High Lord (hard). 700+ gold.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

7

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

The objectives are sufficiently clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Ok.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Good disposition (you somehow naturally end with at least two independent groups). Controlling the situation in the Kalian (I had 2-3 enemy units in it, without much nearby to stop them) Keeping allied AI alive (you need to keep the leaders busy, otherwise they do something stupid). Keeping losses tolerable (especially you can end up short on one end, overequipped on another). I finished with 10 losses (5 of them L2) vs. 9 advancements. A number of close calls - wose could level up just in time. When two troll warrior strikes connect, pretty much any non L3 / non-wose unit is dead.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

7 (I note with pleasure that the troll recruits in this scenario are varied from L1 to L3 and use all trollish units available.)

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

This scenario suffers from the fact that the whole enemy army - as tough as it initially is - is only a single wave and then it is over. The dwarves didn't saw a single action. 400 gold would have been way more useful (though not necessary).

I would consider giving the orcs a little less initial gold (-50 each?) but a significant boost in their income (+20 per turn each?). Makes it a bit more interesting and appropriate for the turn limit.

At times the AI behaviour seems not to concur with the instructions I gave.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Not keeping the ally busy results in him doing something stupid (swimming in front of enemies). A badly played turn (resulting in my single enchantress being in reach of a single unslowed (try failed) troll warrior with the obvious result (two hits, dead).

----

P.S. It is good that all these too numerous loyals and high level units are removed for the next scenario. However it feels wrong that you keep all L2, knowledge makes this exploitable (keeping more L2 units maybe with some experience in your recall list). Another oddity is that Cleodils troops are kept completely. (With the late shamans this is less bad because of too much shydes and sylphs, i don't have even one of those, but why you keep 2 ancient wose in the recall list, when those other high level units are removed?) I would be happy to play this with only L1 - after a decision that all elven veterans are required for the defense of the wesmere forest.
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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 07 - Elves' Last Stand

Post by santi » January 16th, 2013, 8:31 pm

Although in some cases the dwarves do play a role, (if the northern front is still a tossup), in the vast majority of cases the fight is decided by then. This is intentional and designed to further fuell Landar's fury.

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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 07 - Elves' Last Stand

Post by oea » February 15th, 2013, 4:42 pm

well congratulations the control allies mechanism worked great!
at start i put eradion on defensive/attack orange and galtrid on aggressive/attck orange then sent 3 riders a fast druid and a fast marksman south.
this worked great for the south as both allies started a major skirmish with orange at the crossroads right outside his base.
galtrid also sent a few units south then west who tied up the few purple and grey forces who went straight toward ka'lian.
eradion had a few units who were keeping grey somewhat off his back.
after a few turns (when eradion himself was getting attacked too much) i started asking eradion to move only giving him one turns movement at a time; which he promptly did as asked.
my forces reached this front in time to help protect this movement, this want neccasary so they helped mop up orange and kill him.
the reason i didnt need to help protect eradion at all has a name, the deft ninja sorceross, elrariwedia (may her name enter the hall of legends for her sacrifice); who though almost entirely surronded held of greys forces alone for 2 turns (and part of a 3rd) finally being dispatched when a 5th enemy attacked her on the same turn (one of purples goblin knights).
the only somewhat glitch was when i ordered eradion to a spot that galtrid then moved a unit to (would be nice if that wouldnt happen).
was also nice to see that once i got eradion to the west tower of ka'lian, he did exactly what i wanted him to do, that being to recruit.
anyway i really enjoyed being able to control allies in this way it helped alot.
the north front was a really ticky but very satisfying battle that almost took some disastorous turns (not being all that familiar with the creatures of wesnoth i didnt realize just how vulnerable woses are to fire. and almost a full half of what the troll recruited were troll shamens!) but i eventually prevailed after solid fighting for at least 7 to 9 turns. freaking purple showing up as soon as i had cleared most of the trolls so no let up.
my only possible complaint would be that i really wanted to do the mop-up for xp (lol was funny to have the dwarves show up during the end of map cutscenes).
and a good time was had by all!
(playing 1.10.5 on middle difficulty)
{by the way for those who follow after i did change allied objs to defend each other once eradion was near ka'lain and orange was gone, also put giltrad on defensive then also. this really didnt make much difference as ka'lian itself was only attacked by 2 units which i handily dispatched. the few unit giltrad had sent west had delayed all approach to the city. and at this point the enemy had too few forces so map over.}

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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 07 - Elves' Last Stand

Post by DanChem » March 22nd, 2013, 10:14 am

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Easy (1.10.4), 1975 Gold, more than enough units of each kind for recall.
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2 or 3.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Not very clear. I thought my enemy could also win, by overwhelming me. (Yes I misunderstood that). So after calling my strong units I called in more to have 25 units. Well I saw that was a mistake after I won much to fast by overwhelming them instead.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Well I read that there were dwarves supposed to come. Well they did appear in the finishing dialogue. I asked myself what are they doing here? Why should I see units in a scenario, they didn't fight in? Why not show them in the next?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
To not lose any unit and not be overwhelmed at the start. (Well I misinterpreted that part).
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
It's fun to see how these stupid trolls fall like flea's against some elder and ancient wose.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Remove the dwarves and bring them in the dialogue of the next scenario, they are unnecessary.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No.
(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
Didn't check that.

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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 07 - Elves' Last Stand

Post by Konrad2 » October 5th, 2013, 8:10 am

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Hard, 1.11.6
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
very clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
it was certainly interesting, but because i won at turn 10, the dialog with olurf was crippled, because kalenz didnt greet Olurf, or speak with him
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
to survive the all out attack of the orcs at the beginning
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
dont let the orcs escape
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
---
(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
Last edited by Konrad2 on June 29th, 2015, 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 07 - Elves' Last Stand

Post by Maiklas3000 » June 25th, 2014, 11:48 pm

(1) Level, version, and gold? Hard, 1.11.15, 702 starting gold.
(2) Difficult? (1-10) 9.5 due to no help from Olurf - I thought it would be impossible, but it's not quite.
(3) Objectives? Different. These are "anti-assassination" objectives, but clear enough.
(4) Dialog? Messed up. Olurf the dwarf shows up only after the scenario is over (turn 24 for me), and then his dialog fires and it doesn't really make sense. (This dialog doesn't show in the attached replay, because dialog after the end of a scenario does not show in a replay.)

Also, the main enemy leader wants to turn on his own orc allies after they kill an important elf:
Wesnoth - LoW - Elves Last Stand - Mordrum the Naga mourns elf's death.jpg
Mordrum the Naga mourns an elf's death
At the end of the scenario, there is more confusing dialog:

"Perhaps the gold will our word weight with the council."
I am a native English speaker, and I don't undertstand that. Incorrect, perhaps the grammar is.

"Kalenz has left the recovered gold into the elvish treasury."
Improper English. You could say, "Kalenz has returned the gold to the elvish treasury." However, in my case Kalenz spent all the gold on hookers (or Elder Woses... or Elder Wose hookers?) and has -686 gold at the end. I think you should trap the negative gold condition and not use this dialog in that case.

(5) Challenges? I believe Olurf is supposed to show up on turn 12. See this thread:
Olurf no-show at Elves' Last Stand
I got no assistance from him, despite being robbed of 400 gold the previous scenario. So, I wondered whether it would even be possible to win.

I've never liked the Ka'lian island fortress as a defensive position for elves, and here it is going to be spammed by Water Serpents and the occasional level 2 (and 3!) Naga. The Serpents have 60% (sometimes 70%) defense in water, so your defensive moat serves as a fortress for the enemy. After a couple of losses where I reluctantly held the Ka'lian, I shifted to abandoning it. I tried a variety of lines, and most had military success but lost due to time. Finally, I decided to split my forces, and that produced victory. Here were the lines:
Wesnoth - LoW - Elves Last Stand - winning battle lines - 1920x1080.jpg
I sent my allied elves (under my direct control) to the west, to the blue line (north of the western keep, angling down to the southeast), while my main army went northeast of Ka'lian to the red line. Of course, I sent some healer types from my army to support my allies, who have no Shaman. I tried not to extend my lines to the coastlines, since I wanted the Water Serpents to become Land Serpents, which are much easier to kill.

My recruitment strategy in the northeast was basically spam plus Elder Woses. I learned the hard way that even Elder Woses cannot hold the line at night against trolls, so started pulling them out at night and letting Elvish Fighters and Archers take the beating. I lost a lot of Woses, but I wound up with an Ancient Wose and a ready-to-level Elder Wose. In the west, I just spammed for the ally. Recalls are available for the ally, by the way, from their own list of veterans, but I forgot.

For maximum recruitment efficiency (with respect to upkeep), I used the Ka'lian for most of the initial recruits for both my ally and my main army. In the replay, it's funny to watch successive waves of recruits running for their lives from that death trap, the Ka'lian.

Loyals and criticals really cannot be on the front line against trolls, doubly so at night. I lost one loyal to the trolls, my Sharpshooter, who was behind the front line but in bad terrain, and the trolls broke through. I'm happy with the result, given how tough the scenario was (without Olurf.)

In most scenarios where you have an ally, you want to stab him in the back and steal all his villages. However, that is not the case here. You want your ally to have all the villages.

(6) Fun? (1-10) 6. I do not enjoy buggy scenarios, and I do not enjoy huge scenarios, and I most definately do not enjoy buggy, huge scenarios. That said, it was kind of a thrill to beat the unbeatable.

(7) Changes? Lots of bugs above need to be fixed.
(8) Restarts? Many losses, restarted from start each time. No save-reloads.
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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 07 - Elves' Last Stand

Post by Turuk » June 26th, 2014, 2:38 pm

Maiklas3000 wrote:Olurf the dwarf shows up only after the scenario is over (turn 24 for me), and then his dialog fires and it doesn't really make sense. (This dialog doesn't show in the attached replay, because dialog after the end of a scenario does not show in a replay.)
Based on what's in the scenario file, it seems that is the intended behavior, for him to only show up after the player is victorious, though it is contradictory. The comment in Olurf's speaking macro (#TODO the next message doesn't fit if turns are over) seems to imply that work needs to be done so the dialogue fits in the scenario no matter when he shows up, but the code only has him showing up once the scenario is over

Code: Select all

    [event]
        name=victory
        {VARIABLE olurf_entry.x 40}
        {VARIABLE olurf_entry.y 5}
        [fire_event]
            name=olurf
        [/fire_event]
    [/event]
Maiklas3000 wrote:Also, the main enemy leader wants to turn on his own orc allies after they kill an important elf:
This is now fixed, side 3 was included in the filter instead of just side 2.
Maiklas3000 wrote:At the end of the scenario, there is more confusing dialog:

"Perhaps the gold will our word weight with the council."
I am a native English speaker, and I don't undertstand that. Incorrect, perhaps the grammar is.

"Kalenz has left the recovered gold into the elvish treasury."
Improper English.
Fixed.
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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 07 - Elves' Last Stand

Post by Inky » September 24th, 2014, 3:28 am

Original Post (version 1.10.4)
Spoiler:
(1) Level and version? Hard, 1.12.4, 902 starting gold
(2) Difficult? (1-10) 8
(3) Objectives? There should be an "or" in between the two possible objectives or it seems like you have to do both.
(4) Dialog?
The dialogue at the end when the dwarves show up does not fit - e.g. "we still have a battle to fight" when the battle has already been won.

Note: the dialogue in Council of Hard Choices, where Kalenz describes how the dwarves fought by their side, may also need to be modified.
(5) Challenges? Turn limit, sea serpents.
(6) Fun? (1-10) 4, didn't like the massive amount of units you have to manage.
(7) Changes? less enemy gold and less player gold so the battle isn't so massive.
(8) Restarts? 2 (from beginning)- First time ran out of time, second time Kalenz got killed by the trolls in the north.

Strategy: I learned the hard way that keeping your troops in the Kalian and defending there will make you run out of time. It will also make you deal with the annoyance of sea serpents on 60% defense. Leaving the Kalian and fighting in the forest is the way to go. Mass woses led by elvish Marshals in the north, and several of Kalenz's veterans (including a +8 healer, which is a must) go to the southwest forest to support Galtrid's troops.

Finished turn 14/20
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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 07 - Elves' Last Stand

Post by mpp » April 8th, 2015, 2:47 am

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.10.7, medium difficulty.
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Not very clear. I thought that to win I needed to kill all enemy leaders AND dominate them 25/15 and was surprised to win by satisfying the domination condition only.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
OK
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
No significant challenges.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Improve objectives description (see (3)).
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
--
(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
--


Also, here and in the walkthrough in the wiki people tell about nagas and water serpents but in my case they never showed up :(

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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 07 - Elves' Last Stand

Post by JMichael » June 1st, 2015, 5:32 am

Galtrid:
...preparations for when more of them arrive return must be made.
It shouldn't be "arrive return". I don't care for "more...return", I feel that would require that a horde was here and left, then some returned, and now we await the return of more of the original horde.

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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 07 - Elves' Last Stand

Post by Violet-n-red » June 27th, 2015, 3:00 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
normal, 1.12.2
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
not clear:
i thought i had to compelte all objectives
i thought i had to have more than 25 units in each my army
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
it was good enough, although there was unclear part, but it was pointed out before.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
none
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
1 (the reason why i registered here)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
bring back AI for blue side maybe?

the thing i want to say: too many troops to manage. even worse, we have two armies with too many troops. on a huge map. on which i've ben playing before. with similarly overwhelming amount of troops.

blue player had ~800 gold and red had more than a thousand. the thing i was doing is recruiting a lot of fighters and archers and sending them forward while removing wounded ones from the battlefield. there was nothing hard or interesting. just a lot of pretty much mindless clicking.

first time i've seen the extended version of the map for this mission i just looked at it for a minute, then closed the game. after than, i was reopening the game few times, looked over different places on the map and was closing the map again. finally, i just hired a wave of fighters and then started hiring waves of archers. there were some woses, scouts and druids in the mix, but they were absolutely useless. few troops were lost, but that was nothing compared to how many there were still standing or arriving.

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Re: V1.9/1.10 - 07 - Elves' Last Stand

Post by Caladbolg » August 21st, 2016, 5:17 pm

(1) Level and version?
1.12.5, medium.

(2) Difficult? (1-10)
If you focus on keeping high level units and advancing recruits (like I did), it requires more thinking. Managing the whole thing was ~5 as far as difficulty is concerned. However, with the amount of units I could afford, I could win no matter what the enemy does which drops the difficulty a bit so it'd be a 3 then.

(3) Objectives?
For the win conditions I thought I had to achieve both (as did many other people apparently) so maybe adding "OR" would be a good idea.

(4) Dialog and storyline?
Storyline: As I mentioned before, it's strange that Kalenz took a huge detour through the mountains instead of a straight path to Wesmere considering that they're (supposedly) in a hurry.
Dialog: at the end of the scenario Kalenz says "And we have what’s left of the elvish treasury with us!"- no we don't. We just spent all of it.
"Perhaps the gold will our word weight with the council."- doesn't make sense
The part with the dwarves was awesome though.

(5) Challenges?
With so many enemies I could gather a lot of XP so I did that. In turn, my units were more exposed to battle so managing risk was challenging.

(6) Fun? (1-10)
3. You need a lot of units and because there is no gold carryover, you have no reason to hold back on spending- after all, it's better to recruit than not. As a result, you end up with a huge number of units to move, many of which don't even play a role in the battle because the bunch that came before them had already eradicated everything within their range. It gets tedious.

(7) Changes?
The issue is that the enemy had too few units. This meant that it was clear from the beginning that I would win with ease but I still had to go through that massive time waste. Even though the enemy has a lot of gold, the player has more (1720 enemy, 1662 Kalenz + 540 Wesmere = 2202 me). I think it'd be good if the enemy's gold was scaled to roughly match the player's (but it would still have some minimum of course). This way the player and the enemy would be roughly on equal footing.
Cropping the map could also be done (south and far east are useless) but it's a really minor thing.

As the battle is huge, I won't be going into detail, just a general outline.
Strategy:
-Cleodil recalls on 1st turn and then goes straight for the Ka'lian. She'll recall and later recruit from there. Recruits are mostly shamans with some woses in the mix.
-Kalenz and Landar start by recalling a few units before moving out. Kalenz will later go to Ka'lian to spend all of the gold on recruits (a good mix of fighters and archers); most will go north
-Eradion (western guy) recalls and later recruits, spending all of the gold. He will be the one bringing new units onto the battlefield. Galtrid (the guy from Ka'lian) recruits only on the 1st turn, splitting his army N and W. He then goes W to assist Eradion's troops.

-Kalenz's units hold the forest to the north of Ka'lian; Cleodil keeps a small force in Ka'lian for protection (unneeded as the water units are distracted by my units in the N forest); Eradion holds a line north of his keep- as it is close, he can jump in to assist with leadership
-focus is on advancing shamans as I didn't have a good chance to do so on previous scenarios and they're extremely useful on lvl2 and beyond. Units with low xp are occasionally (that is, very often) thrown into water/plains to distract serpents/trolls. Elves sometimes leave the forests to score some good kills but I made sure to limit the number of hexes they can be attacked from or to protect them with units I'd happily lose.

Stats:
Kalenz: start gold 1662, 75 recruits, 14 recalls, 11 advancements, 16 losses, 43 kills, +3% dmg dealt, -3% dmg received, 18/54 villages, ended in the red, 82 units on field at the end
Galtrid: start gold 540, 49 recruits, 6 recalls, 2 advancements, 33 losses, 29 kills, +3% dmg dealt, +9% dmg received, 32/54 villages, +34 income per turn, 26 units on field at the end
-turns taken: 11/25
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