V1.7/1.8 - 22 - Northern Battle

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V1.7/1.8 - 22 - Northern Battle

Post by Content Feedback » October 8th, 2008, 12:51 pm

The Legend of Wesmere, scenario 22 - Northern Battle:

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

generalvalter
Posts: 6
Joined: January 21st, 2009, 9:58 pm

Re: Scenario Review: LoW 22 - Northern Battle

Post by generalvalter » January 31st, 2009, 3:41 am

I played this level on Medium, but I can't give any other feedback because I just couldn't finish this level. The campaign flow is really broken at level 21, in my opinion. The combination of snow levels and the stripping of all your troops makes it more effective, in retrospect, to only level your shaman units. But people going into the campaign blind won't know that, and it makes it more annoying at the last few levels. The problem is that you have to compensate for the possibility that the player won't have made any/enough shaman units, and you have to scale back the difficulty for it. This makes the final levels either super-easy, because you have several Elvish Sylphs to work with, or super-boring, because you have to build back up your army that you already made back in level 1.

I would prefer if the last 3 levels were either removed entirely or drastically changed. It just felt like I was going straight back to the first level again.

taemyr
Posts: 65
Joined: September 1st, 2007, 12:33 pm

Re: Scenario Review: LoW 22 - Northern Battle

Post by taemyr » January 31st, 2009, 11:00 pm

generalvalter wrote:I played this level on Medium, but I can't give any other feedback because I just couldn't finish this level. The campaign flow is really broken at level 21, in my opinion. The combination of snow levels and the stripping of all your troops makes it more effective, in retrospect, to only level your shaman units. But people going into the campaign blind won't know that, and it makes it more annoying at the last few levels. The problem is that you have to compensate for the possibility that the player won't have made any/enough shaman units, and you have to scale back the difficulty for it. This makes the final levels either super-easy, because you have several Elvish Sylphs to work with, or super-boring, because you have to build back up your army that you already made back in level 1.

I would prefer if the last 3 levels were either removed entirely or drastically changed. It just felt like I was going straight back to the first level again.
The snow hurts your opponents just as much as it hurts you. In fact it hurts your opponent more, since he has further to move before reaching the forest. So you can wait for him on the forest line. When I played this scenario on medium I don't think I recalled any sylphs or shydes.

Also note that the victory condition in this scenario is to get a unit within 5 or so hexes of Landar's keep. It's winnable without recruiting. You get no hint of this though, but if you are stuck it's a way forward, at least if Huraldur is still alive.

Edit: Wait, snow? There's no snow in this scenario. What version of the game are you on?

generalvalter
Posts: 6
Joined: January 21st, 2009, 9:58 pm

Re: Scenario Review: LoW 22 - Northern Battle

Post by generalvalter » February 4th, 2009, 12:22 am

Sorry, I'm talking about the way that two snow battles (breaking the siege and costly revenge) are followed by you losing all of your warriors. It just wasn't fun to keep playing by this point.

I'm not a fan of snow battles, because they "move" (if it can even be called that) at a very slow pace. And even then, the units that can get around the limited movement (like gryphons and faeries) break the pace of said battles. I have similar feelings about cave battles, unless you have access to dwarven units.

BigCheese
Posts: 27
Joined: August 20th, 2009, 7:05 pm

Re: Scenario Review: LoW 22 - Northern Battle

Post by BigCheese » October 9th, 2009, 7:04 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
medium 1.7.6

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
1 - there are some strange bugs:
a) Lander (the archer) recruits Lander (the sharpshooter)
b) Kalenz and Lander (and I think Uradredia too) have some identical units to recall (same type, name and xp)
c) the scenario ended in turn 5 with a win; Nán (Marshal recalled by Uradredia) moved next to Lander (sharpshooter recalled by Lander the archer) and Lander decided to retreat his army; Landers and Uradredias troops had not even hit each other once;

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
didn't make much sense, see (2) c)

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
none

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
4 - at the current state; with the bugs fixed it should be much higher

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
fix the bugs, the rest seems fine

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
none
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woodman663
Posts: 3
Joined: January 15th, 2010, 9:24 pm

Re: Scenario Review: LoW 22 - Northern Battle

Post by woodman663 » January 19th, 2010, 12:19 am

I lost my shyde/sylph army plus an enchantress to that greedy Landar. (This should not happen, right?)

See my bug report: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=28536

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alterego
Posts: 4
Joined: February 10th, 2010, 3:24 pm

Re: Scenario Review: LoW 22 - Northern Battle

Post by alterego » February 10th, 2010, 3:39 pm

fabi wrote:The Legend of Wesmere, scenario 22 - Northern Battle:

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
v1.7.12-1.8beta5
default difficulty (iirc it was medium ?)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
rather easy (just runaway until you reach friends) and frustating as it stopped at turn 12 (i supposed 36) just when the running strategy was starting to pay (ennemy were isolated and can be killed one by one).

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
clear = try to survive

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
clear
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7
very fun to be confronted to all the 3rd leverl heros we carefully build before.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
not stop at turn 12, let the player revenge against sparsed (dumb) enemy units (they are strong because they are coherent in the beginning, but quickly it s a mess)

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
In previous scenario (a costly revenge = massacre all saurians) i just cheated awfully to be abble to pass to next turn (i strongly boosted all characters, and was confronted to them in the current scenario = this is justice :-) )

Dieguitoarg
Posts: 9
Joined: April 3rd, 2010, 5:57 am

Re: Scenario Review: LoW 22 - Northern Battle

Post by Dieguitoarg » April 4th, 2010, 9:08 am

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Medium - 1.8

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
1 - The first leader commits suicide and the trick with the Landar is easily exploited.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear, but not true.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
More dialog between Landar and Kalenz would have been nice.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Keeping some units alive after the assasination of the first leader.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
1 - For various reasons...

Seeing Landar with my level 4 and other wizards units was just WRONG... I cared about them, watched them grow, made a lot of tough choices in order to keep them alive and now I have to kill them...
Likewise, seeing my ally get my two loyal units killed so recklessly (sends a marksman all by herself to take a town right in the middle of the enemy) is very dissapointing.

IMO the AI should never get my units, a very big part of the campaign (at least for me) is to slowly build my army of veterans and having them handled to an AI that doesn't know how to protect them is not right.

Most important though, don't give the Landar my mages, they weren't happy with him burning the villages anyway, so it doesn't fit the story either. Just given him a lot of units, but let me keep mine!

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Remove the first enemy altogether or have him be more careful (or move him or Kalenz to another location)

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No

As I said before the campaign is just wrong now, it could have ended in human alliance and it would have been the best campaign ever (loved all the previous scenarios!)

Zanzahar
Posts: 1
Joined: May 6th, 2010, 6:23 am

Re: Scenario Review: LoW 22 - Northern Battle

Post by Zanzahar » May 6th, 2010, 6:27 am

woodman663 wrote:I lost my shyde/sylph army plus an enchantress to that greedy Landar. (This should not happen, right?)

See my bug report: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=28536
I'm having the same problem. Although the scenario message states that I could recall units from my shaman line only, my recall list is totally empty.

Wesnoth 1.8.0

fob-nation
Posts: 3
Joined: June 13th, 2010, 2:46 am

Re: Scenario Review: LoW 22 - Northern Battle

Post by fob-nation » June 23rd, 2010, 3:24 am

Zanzahar wrote:
woodman663 wrote:I lost my shyde/sylph army plus an enchantress to that greedy Landar. (This should not happen, right?)

See my bug report: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=28536
I'm having the same problem. Although the scenario message states that I could recall units from my shaman line only, my recall list is totally empty.

Wesnoth 1.8.0
I too have this problem (BfW 1.8.2 English, Windows), where my flying army is given to Landar, along with a couple of sorceresses and all my shamans. What's odd is that Landar didn't take all my Sylphs/Shydes, but he left me with two (one of each). It turns out that the Sylphs that he took were the ones I used in Breaking the Siege, while the Shydes he took were the ones I didn't use in the same level. Not sure if there's any connection there, but so far that's all I've been able to find. Don't know how to explain the stolen sorceresses though.
Not sure if I'm actually going to play through this scenario, since I'm a little steamed that all my troops got stolen for no reason.

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Maiklas3000
Posts: 532
Joined: June 23rd, 2010, 10:43 am

Re: Scenario Review: LoW 22 - Northern Battle

Post by Maiklas3000 » July 6th, 2010, 8:43 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
hard; 1.8.2

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7, but it may vary a lot depending on your strategy.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
I wasn't sure whether the victory conditions were an "AND" or "OR".

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Okay, but I was confused when my air force defected to Landar - four shydes - while the Outrider I had at the end of the last battle went to the allies. Landar also got two of my three enchantresses. Landar kicked major butt. My recall list was left with an enchantress and a sorcerer (and two low XP shamen not worth recalling.)

The ending is lame. Landar gets to quit the game. You should have him disappear, literally. Have him drink more of the potion. The end of the game can work the same, but just change the dialog and maybe make him fade to ranger-ghost and then to nothing.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
I blitzed the southeast leader, catching him out of his lair, but unlike in the Wiki, this is no cakewalk now and was quite difficult to pull off when you have been stripped of your air force. After mopping up the southeast, I marched my forces towards Landar, which was mostly uneventful. I wasn't sure if the Wiki was still accurate about just needing to move next to Landar, so I did not try to fly Cleodil to Landar. (All my scouts were wiped out in the blitz of the southeast leader, so using scouts was not an option.)

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I was horrified to see my loyal troops under the control of the suicidal allied leader. My loyal sharpshooter jumped like a lemming into the river and was swarmed by three of my shydes that defected to Landar. This was frustrating, not fun. I assume my loyal champion died too, but I don't remember a notification about it. It hardly seems fair. Why can't I control my loyal troops?

It hardly seems fun to have my recall list consist of basically two units (plus two useless units.) Hey, what about that scout that was with me in Elvish Assassins? He survived. Why isn't he in the recall list? Is he too with Landar? Or was he in the allied leader's forces? And why did Landar get 6 out of my 8 shydes/enchantresses?

Now I have to go into the next battle with no healers except Cleodil?! Why can't I recruit druids? I'm confused... which side are the shamen types on?

For much of this campaign, I got the impression that things were rather buggy and not well tested, and this impression is reinforced by all my shydes defecting to Landar.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
I failed in my first few attempts to blitz the southeast leader and restarted from turn 1. I didn't ultimately get lucky; I just got better at it.
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Thrash
Posts: 190
Joined: June 25th, 2010, 1:54 pm

Re: Scenario Review: LoW 22 - Northern Battle

Post by Thrash » July 14th, 2010, 2:59 am

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

1.8.3, Medium, 315 starting gold

Also, I fixed my version so that all my shaman line was available to me instead of being given to Landar. I believe this is what is intended based on the story line. Pretty clearly made a big difference.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

5

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear, survive or kill all leaders.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Clear enough, Landar has come to kill me and most of my veterans are with Urad.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Watching my loyals die off as the AI sent them into untenable situations.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

7, elf-on-elf stage cage blood match.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Probably over the top, but the dwarves could be involved. Kalenze learns Landar is heading to kill them and gets there to warn them.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

No.
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Thrash
Posts: 190
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 22 - Northern Battle

Post by Thrash » July 14th, 2010, 3:08 am

Thrash wrote:(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

No.
Actually, I forgot, I tried to catch the SE leader out of his fort on the first turn as the wiki suggests, which works in that you can do so with Kalenz and Cleo, and kill him fairly easily. But then you are out in the open and get slaughtered by the band of heros he recalled before venturing out. So you win the battle and lose the war...

kukn
Posts: 10
Joined: July 9th, 2010, 9:30 am

Re: Scenario Review: LoW 22 - Northern Battle

Post by kukn » July 18th, 2010, 9:48 am

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Hard, version 1.8.2

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5 with the right beginning, harder otherwise

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Good enough.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Making sure I survived.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
3 - the stupid bug that gives Landar basically all your fairies (I kept 1 sylph, lost all 4 shydes and a sylph to Landar, also couldn't recruit druids and sorceresses). This bug really annoyed me, as it goes directly against what you are told and what makes sense in the story. I mean come of it! Shouldn't be hard to fix that bug (there's a fix written out on another forum that just needs to be implemented (into the Costly Revenge map)). Without this messup the mission would play out quite differently, so I can't say how fun it would be, but definitely more.
I do like that the ally is strong and has a big army - in my winning game he actualyl beat Landar's forces on the fields and ended the mission by attacking Landar.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Fix that bug. As this would mean the player is stronger and Landar weaker, give Landar a pair of bodyguards (level 3 champions) to stand close by him to stop units easily getting to Landar and ending the game. Give Landar a bit bigger army. At the same time, change the SE enemy general from starting in a fort - instead just have him appear with a retinue of 6-7 level 2 rangers and heroes. It'll be more interesting and it will also mean the player doesn't have to rush the SE general to kill him off on turn 2-3 to make the map winable (player is in big trouble if he lets SE general live).
ALTERNATIVE: leave SE general his fort, but make sure he doesn't come out and open himself to attack, give player some bonus starting units (maybe a couple of riders - possibly all units left from previous map, if you added riders to Kalenzes side and made Elvish Assassins a bit more difficult).

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
The fact I could only recall 1 sylph and I didn't think to kill off the SE general right at the start. I had a weak army and was overrun.

Seddyrocky
Posts: 22
Joined: August 6th, 2010, 11:55 pm

Re: Scenario Review: LoW 22 - Northern Battle

Post by Seddyrocky » August 7th, 2010, 12:14 am

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Medium, think it is latest version (1.8.3)
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8 - Landar got my sole Sylph and four Shydes... I could only recall two shamans (one with 0 exp and one with 18). And thus, He has a huge army while I have to recruit marksmen and heroes...
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Pretty clear, survive or kill the leaders.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Meh... Landar could have had some more filling stuff. But other than that, average.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Seeing loyal units die at the hands of the AI, Landar controlling my faerie folk, even though it says in the scenario that I should have them (and ONLY them...? But I can still recruit other elves, but not druid/sorc and nor can I recall any of them)
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
Story-wise, not bad. But since it has so far deemed impossible (Landar sends a bunch of lvl 3 Sharpshooters against me right away and after dealing with the local leader and without Shydes or so to slow em, I'm just pretty dead)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
FIX THE BUGS! Sorry, caps. But yeah, gimmie back my shydes and my sylph! I worked hard to get em and it says that I should have them! I wonder if this can be connected to a previous scenario (when none were available) and them being removed from my recall list or something? (The kill Saurians mission)
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
I failed to catch the leader first time, plus he damaged Cleo so much that she died so... Yup. Plus that I lost a second time to em lvl 3 shooters.


Edit: Now finished, on my fourth try. Doing a guerilla tactic (n cheating/reloads/redoing turns... sad to use them but yes, what can be done) I noted that the allied forces pretty much take out enough of their defenses (I only had to kill 3 sharpshooters, 1 druid and 1 fighter this time to get a scout through to Landar! Plus all the second leaders units, but those I had to kill anyway)

And even though I thusly leveled my my 18 exp shaman into a druid, I still missed my faerie folk. Would be nice to have them once again!

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