V1.7/1.8 - 19 - Costly Revenge

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V1.7/1.8 - 19 - Costly Revenge

Post by Content Feedback » October 8th, 2008, 12:49 pm

The Legend of Wesmere, scenario 19 - Costly Revenge:

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

fabi
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 19 - Costly Revenge

Post by fabi » January 26th, 2009, 12:06 pm

taemyr wrote: (7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Have the sylphs and shydes refuse to participate.
That is a good idea. It would fit story wise.

iserp
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 19 - Costly Revenge

Post by iserp » June 24th, 2009, 4:02 pm

The Legend of Wesmere, scenario 19 - Costly Revenge:

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

Medium v 1.7.0

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

10, although i have just played it once (and lost)

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

I don't feel like this is a campaign to exterminate saurians. Maybe some dialog on behalf the saurians would help.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

I started with just 100 gold. And i've been careless with my loyal units, so i only kept one elvish champion.

No sylphs and shydes means that i can't hardly outmaneuver the saurians and stop the blue leader from recruiting. Besides, in the snow i take all the hits from them, and i cannot heal my units whatsoever. I didn't manage to beat the blue leader, maybe -with a better strategy and all the loyal units- it is possible, but i don't think that the rest of the units can do something about the green leader.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

4 Snow makes for some interesting gameplay, but i felt totally slowed down because of it.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

More money perhaps? Maybe some druids (a couple of them) could join you, so you can heal your units, but still keep the feeling of a snow battle.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Yes, i was totally outnumbered

EDIT: I managed to beat the scenario; but i had to beat "Breaking The siege" again, so i could keep 215 gold, so i could recall 5 units more, still i found it really difficult (And i was lucky to recall an elvish shaman that only needed 4 xp to level up, druids are really needed in this scenario to keep your units alive)

BigCheese
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 19 - Costly Revenge

Post by BigCheese » October 9th, 2009, 5:55 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
medium 1.7.6

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
9 - it's overkill; I was lucky to start with 250+ gold

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
very good

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
healing my units by level up

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
2 - no healing (from units or from villages), no income (villages are destroyed), swarm of lvl3 skirmishers (against injured units), swarm of lvl2 magic attackers, no time to camp/sit it out (must move in open terrain with injured units against high evasion enemies)

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
a location to heal, perhaps a magic fountain in the woods

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
a huge army of saurians killing my precious units
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alterego
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 19 - Costly Revenge

Post by alterego » February 10th, 2010, 4:44 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
v1.7.12-1.8beta5
default difficulty (iirc it is medium)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
10 (or more like 20/10 :-))
Absolutely impossible scenario with 100 gold, and no healer (and 3rd level characters)
I was fed up and cheated (give 900 hitpoints to my heroes) to pass the scenario
(I tried be in the trees, on top left, with all these saurians on snow, just could survive up to round 12, then die)

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
clear objective, but i dont like it.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
good dialog, but horrible content, really disgusting guys.(elves are not orcs doing pogrom)

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
I did not noticed the snow diference, found it here in wiki, then tried again, then cheated.
It seems totally impossible.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
0/10. Not fun at all, ugly mission and impossible with 100 gold.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
played only with 'evil' Landar, but not with Kalenz

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Landar or Kalenz died before round 12 (as did all the 3rd level heroes)
Last edited by alterego on February 10th, 2010, 11:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 19 - Costly Revenge

Post by fabi » February 10th, 2010, 5:58 pm

alterego wrote:(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
v1.7.12-1.8beta5
You played on what difficult level?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
10 (or more like 20/10 :-))
Absolutely impossible scenario with 100 gold, and no healer (and 3rd level characters)
I was fed up and cheated (give 900 hitpoints to my heroes) to pass the scenario
(I tried be in the trees, on top left, with all these saurians on snow, just could survive up to round 12, then die)
You should have plenty of 3rd level characters around at that time in the campaign.
I just fixed scenario 16 not letting you keep your money. That means it should be much likelier for the player to have more money left in 19.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
clear objective, but i dont like it.
It's not meant to be liked. Good if it gave you some disgust to deal with.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
good dialog, but horrible content, really disgusting guys.(elves are not orcs doing pogrom)
Elves doing pogroms against lesser races (in their opinion) is part of fantasy literature quite often.

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alterego
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 19 - Costly Revenge

Post by alterego » February 10th, 2010, 11:51 pm

fabi wrote: You played on what difficult level?
Default difficulty, iirc it was medium
fabi wrote: You should have plenty of 3rd level characters around at that time in the campaign.

I had something like 7 or 8 third level followers(plus the 2 heroes), but with 100 gold can only recall 5, and die soon after them.

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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 19 - Costly Revenge

Post by fabi » February 11th, 2010, 10:58 am

alterego wrote:
fabi wrote: You played on what difficult level?
Default difficulty, iirc it was medium
fabi wrote: You should have plenty of 3rd level characters around at that time in the campaign.

I had something like 7 or 8 third level followers(plus the 2 heroes), but with 100 gold can only recall 5, and die soon after them.
On medium I had about 450 gold when reaching scenario 19 during my last test playing.
But there have been changes to both the campaign and to the wesnoth engine since than.

Can you please have a look for me at your previous savegames if you did spent all the money you should have saved or if it did vanish because of broken
gold carryover from the last scenario?

Dieguitoarg
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 19 - Costly Revenge

Post by Dieguitoarg » April 4th, 2010, 8:42 am

1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Medium - 1.8

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
10 - The one where I finally drew the line and started reloading like 10 times to get better results in the attack rolls... The loss of my mages and healers was a huge blow...

I had only 5 level 3 units, the rest were mages and healers, so I had to hole up in the staring location with a swarm of lvl 1 units with some leaders in the back, kill the two armies then do the village wiping and leader killing...


(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear... There's a village in the swamp that I coudnt see well after the enemy's flag was gone.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Seems a bit forced... maybe keep the healers and start the fight with Landar right there or something...

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Surviving

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
3-Losing the mage line is not fun at all, since it was the one I had developed the most.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Keep the mages and start the break up right there...

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No

Note:
The campaign goes downhill from here on... also, why does the traitor gets my mages in the later scenarios(not the healers), they weren't supposed to be happy with his actions anyway...

vivisector
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 19 - Costly Revenge

Post by vivisector » April 13th, 2010, 1:41 am

1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Medium - 1.8b5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
10 - but should be a bit easier if you plan your army with the foresight of this battle

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear... but see #7

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Ok

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Holding out without losing too many units

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
4 - It was supposed to be a massacre of saurians, not a survival battle for elves

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Saurian army was mostly wiped already, so they should get lots of low level units (new recruits)
and not a tight pack of grizzled veterans as they do now. Then, it would be more like what
it says on the tin - Elven veterans hardened and embittered by many battles wade knee-deep in
blood while saurian recruits try to save their villages even at the cost of their lives.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Loss of leaders due to really bad rolls

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Maiklas3000
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 19 - Costly Revenge

Post by Maiklas3000 » July 6th, 2010, 5:05 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
hard; 1.8.2

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8. It's hard for me to assign a number here, since I got crushed the first time, then I did the crushing the second time. With adequate gold, it's certainly easier than many of the scenarios in this campaign. In the first 18 turns, I lost only a captain and a ranger, I think. (Replay is in the thread "need help with LOW Costly Revenge".) The scenario objectives are deceptively difficult, because it's a big "AND"... destroy this village AND this village... AND every last other village... AND kill this enemy unit AND this enemy unit AND... every last other enemy unit. Miss just one and you lose. This makes the scenario difficult in itself, plus many are finding it difficult just to survive. And there is a fair amount of time pressure (on hard) to finish the job, while, uh, grooming your forces for future scenarios.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear, though I needed to recheck the objectives to recall that I had to kill every enemy unit. Also, it's difficult to see one of the enemy villages even when it has its flag.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Excellent.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The main challenge was coming up with a strategy to survive the assault, though my standard Saurian solution, "trapezoid in the woods," worked. Also, a challenge was balancing my conflicting goals at the end. I needed to kill every last enemy unit, while simultaneously, uh, grooming my forces for future scenarios.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
10. This campaign is turning Wesnoth on its head, which I find thought-provoking. You get into situations you've never seen before and need to use strategies that you've never used before - and if you don't, you lose. This scenario is an extreme case of this. I'm sure some hate it.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
More time. It's hard enough without time pressure. Also, I had 510 gold coming into the scenario, which is enough on hard with the correct strategy, but it would certainly get exponentially more difficult the less gold the player had, plus some would have trouble with even 700 gold. I would consider increasing the turns on the previous scenario, in order to increase the gold for early finish. Also, why not toss the player a gift non-loyal champion or two, call them "bodyguards" for Landar, as a bit of foreshadowing... "Hello, I'm Hanzar." "And I'm Franzar." "We're Landar's personal bodyguards." They would help a lot in this battle, while being a bit of a potential Trojan horse for the future, but again they would help in providing foreshadowing. Plus, maybe make the minimum gold 200, which is probably still too little, but I'm not sure.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
I got crushed on my first attempt.

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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 19 - Costly Revenge

Post by Thrash » July 12th, 2010, 12:41 am

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

1.8.3, Medium, 416 starting gold

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

5 - 7 trying to keep all your loyal units alive.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Different, but clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

It seems a little odd that Kalenz is allowing Landar to run the show.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

(1) Keeping all loyal units alive, as I needed almost all hands at the front line at one point or another.

(2) First time I played it, I waited for saurians to attack and they help back for 6 turns, which, combined with me not having sent outriders up north early, caused me to run out of time.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

8 because it's different. You really can't keep it from being a bloodbath and you're going to lose units. Some strategizing is called for in order to keep time from being an issue.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

It would be a lot harder if NE saurian kept a couple units back to defend him. I took him out with a couple outriders I snuck out. If he held a couple flankers back, it would take a serious assault to get him.

The AI was kinda a wuss. First time I played it took 6 turns shuffling units around before attacking. Even the last time (replay attached) it would hold off units on one flank or another, and get indecisive about whether to attack or defend norther chief. Make AI bold.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

First time I ran out of time. Succeeded second time. I replayed the scenario a third time to try and not lose any loyal units (which I did).
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kukn
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 19 - Costly Revenge

Post by kukn » July 18th, 2010, 9:28 am

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Hard, version 1.8.2

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
10, very difficult

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear, although from the dialog at the start I didn't quite realise that I had to destroy all units and villages (that being such an unusual objective).

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Loved the dialog after destroying the first village, the storyline is very good. However the mission design does not stay to the story logic. As someone mentioned in a previous review, according to the story, the elf army is coming in to slaughter the weakened saurians - they should be recruiting level 1 units only - but lots of them (double what they have in level 3's and 2's). Maybe when the first village is destroyed and the saurians see they're in for a slaughter, have one saurian unit appear with each destroyed village. That would give them a big army, but not all at once. It would also mean the elf player has to push forward and really start the destruction straight away.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Surviving the high-level saurian attack with a strong enough force and with enough time to then quickle dash through and destroy the villages and generals. The hardest part was trying to get to the generals in time with half dead elves rushing into bad terrain against new saurian units.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6 to start with, 2 after stopping the main assault and having to charge with half dead units against fresh high level saurians... Also - another defensive mission, there have been too many defensive missions like that in the campaign.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
If you redesigned the level as I suggest above, you could make it a 10+ fun game, with strong deadly elves wading through a sea of weak saurians, cutting them up and falling at the same time.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
1st go - I took the story and dialogue seriously and thought this was an offensive mission - got slaughtered by the much stronger and more experienced saurians...
2nd go - went into the defensive, but had too little gold (cca 280g), so was overrun
3rd go - redid previous mission to end up with 500+g, managed to destroy the saurian offensive by turn 14-15, losing about 10 units with the other 10-odd in low-/mid-orange; loaded several times in the end game, as it's extremely hard to beat the new saurians on the road and manage to destroy all villages... completed on last turn with last attack on northern general.

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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 19 - Costly Revenge

Post by Grandson_of_Sam » August 5th, 2010, 8:29 pm

The Legend of Wesmere, scenario 19 - Costly Revenge:

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.8.2 Easy
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
10. With no carry-over for me, going on at minimum was a bit too much against that army...
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Confusing... Why did Kalenz go with destruction of a species? From what Kalenz is in all other campaigns, he suddenly turns as a bystander for exterminating the Saurians, and he goes along?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Interesting, but not having Kalenz as a leader, and instead having Landar would make more sense... Kalenz is too pure to have his troops to exterminate another species...
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Time and starting money.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
1. I don't fiond killing children fun, not even in a game...
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Remove the references to crushing the eggs and alll references to children. It's just disgusting.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Needed to replay a few scenario's back, and after finishing this, had to replay another time to get the troops ready...

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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 19 - Costly Revenge

Post by tr0ll » September 5th, 2010, 10:04 pm

  1. What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
    medium, 1.8.4, 307 starting gold
  2. How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
    10. finely balanced, i won on the last turn.
  3. How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
    quite. wasnt sure at first if the villages that Kalenz took over should also be destroyed, but the Scenario Objectives did say "all villages".
  4. How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
    - good dialog, too bad more elves didnt refuse to destroy villages.
    - the 30 turn limit isnt explained.
  5. What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
    - surviving until the onslaught was over
    - mopping up with heavily damaged units
    - timing to get to last leader before end of turns
  6. How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
    it seems hopeless so 6,
    but 9 if you are trying the tactical advice in the forums
  7. What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
    - perhaps units that Landar recruits/recalls should always destroy villages, while Kalenz units should not. might make the scenario more winnable and play into storyline for later.
    - because you go into debt to maintain the units, there could be random desertions over time which would justify the turn limit better, i.e. another loss condition could be "no non-loyal units left"
  8. Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
    no extraordinary events, just some tactical errors i made.

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