V 1.7/1.8 - 17 - Breaking the Siege

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V 1.7/1.8 - 17 - Breaking the Siege

Post by Content Feedback » October 8th, 2008, 12:47 pm

The Legend of Wesmere, scenario 17 - Breaking the Siege:

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Thrash
Posts: 208
Joined: June 25th, 2010, 1:54 pm

Re: Scenario Review: LoW 17 - Breaking the Siege

Post by Thrash » June 28th, 2010, 10:06 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

1.8.2, medium

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

9. I started with minimum gold and only two Shyde and one Slyphs to recall.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Standard keep ally alive while killing enemy.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
  • Time - it took me 35/36 turns.
  • Keeping Urad alive as he tended to get poisoned or do dumb things.
  • Figuring out how to beat the scenario with minimum gold and a less than ideal recall list
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

It's fun in that it took me lots (8?) of tries to get the right strategy (see my posts in this thread if you are interested in details)


(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Trying to think what would have made it possible for me to have a chance to beat it on my first try... some clue to use the flying elves, an extra druid, a little more defense for Urad.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Many. See my list of challenges above.

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Maiklas3000
Posts: 532
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 17 - Breaking the Siege

Post by Maiklas3000 » July 5th, 2010, 3:25 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
hard; 1.8.2

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4, but I had read the strategies of others.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Kalenz is sadistic, like movie villians that make a speech just before they will kill someone they have captured... It must be from the potion... nice touch.

The southern orc leader called for reserves, but I didn't see anything appear and so I didn't know what to expect. Was it the level 3 dire wolves that appeared later?

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The main challenge was recruiting with just 100 gold and no sylphs or outrider in reserves, but I had lots of shydes and a rider. I finished Human Alliance with negative 970 gold, and I really doubt it's possible to end with positive gold on hard/1.8.2. In that scenario, on turn 9 you get about 14 elf reinforcements, including lots of level 3's, which drain what little gold you might have had.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7. I liked it for being a bit different and there are no mopping up operations.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
It's fine as is, but for players who have lost multiple loyal units and/or don't have many flying/riding units, it would be really hard. For their sake you might want to increase gold by 20 or loan the player a flying unit of some sort. Griffon?

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No, won on first attempt.

ahmul
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Joined: January 28th, 2009, 2:39 pm
Location: Czech Republic

Re: Scenario Review: LoW 17 - Breaking the Siege

Post by ahmul » July 10th, 2010, 2:44 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
hard, 1.8.3
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear, except you don't have an idea in first try that Uradredia will die, if you don't send the fly units there. Would be more helpfull if there was a dialog hint.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
clear
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Thankfully, I have four shydes and outrider, without them it would be pretty impossible.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8 Actually, around turn 10 i was suprised that I could defend the north forest. Almost all of the enemies seem to move for Kalenz. The rest were killed by shydes and lv.1 units of Uradredia.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
The fog is the main problem I think, you don't know what and when will hit you, especially in this bad terrain. I switch that off, when I was playing. Thanks to this I noticed that AI sent two units consequently out of the forest just to be slaughter by orcs. So i tweaked it a little:

Code: Select all

[ai]
   caution=0.5
[/ai] 
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
I didn't know that Uradredia starts with zero gold, so she died before I could get there with units.

Thrash
Posts: 208
Joined: June 25th, 2010, 1:54 pm

Re: Scenario Review: LoW 17 - Breaking the Siege

Post by Thrash » July 10th, 2010, 9:24 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

1.8.3, Medium starting with 100 gold.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

6, as long as you are a little careful, the NE and NW orcs aren't a real problem. The SW orc is the real problem.

That is with a recallable Slyph (don't bother with anything lower level, they are too slow) and a bunch of Shydes. Having played it before I can say if you don't have all your loyal units or a bunch of Slyphs and Shydes, it's much harder.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

As others have commented, until you play it a time or two, you don't realize Ally needs help and fast.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Clear. Like the reinforcements for the SW orce, makes things interesting.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

First you have to figure out you have to help Ally, but that's not too bad as he doesn't need that much help (I send a Outrider and Shyde to help him and actually that was enough not only to save him but beat the NW orc).

The SW orc is a challenge, per the wiki, I sent Kalenz and loyals that way. The two issues are you have to maintain a tight formation, which the fact your units want to move different speed means you just have to be patient, especially at night. But that helps with the second issue in that even if you kill the chief, you're likely to get overrun by the dire wolves unless he's the last kill, so you have to be careful with your timing and not get there too fast. (In my case, since the NW fight was so easy, I redirected my Slyph & Shyde contingent SW after finishing off NE orc when it became clear NW orc was in hand, and they arrived to make SW orc a mop-up.)

Also, in the same play where Kalenz was killed, I lost a Shyde going NE since I went straight up instead of sticking to the forest.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

7

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Give the player some clue that speed is of the essence to save Ally.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Kalenz got killed once in my charge to the SW orc when I got my formation out of true.
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DeusIX
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Joined: September 3rd, 2010, 3:41 pm

Re: Scenario Review: LoW 17 - Breaking the Siege

Post by DeusIX » September 4th, 2010, 10:57 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Easy - 1.8.0

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

10 - Impossible to pass

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

No complaining.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Time runs out or ally dies

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

0 This is no fun at all. The most frustrating level thusfar.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Well. Make easy level easy. add +20 to the turn limit. and make the ally stronger.
Those who know this campaign know to train those sylphs, but for newcomers to play all the way here only to find out that "LOL! you played wrong" is no good. Nowhere did it state that i need to train specific units to complete the campaign. My troops are quite solid and all, but this kind of snow-mobility was a total surprise.
Perhaps a new mission where sylph-training is a priority, before this mission?
and make hard harder. there are people who say that this is easy mission with 5 sylphs/hard. add few more orc bases, so that they feel the pain too. :twisted:

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

This scenario is a gamebreaker. I can't complete it and i'm quite frustrated. Ally dies between turns 7-21.
This level expects that you have flying units. I had one. and 4 others with the quick attribute.
The sylp can reach the ally and with relentless save/reload i'm able to save him. however my main troops are too slow to complete the mission. I can vanquish 2 bases but that's it, before timeout.
technically, it may be possible to complete this scenario if i save/load perfectly, but i don't like that kind of gameplay.

About the campaign in general: Do I actually lose units from my recruit list between missions? I'm pretty sure that I've hired more elfs than the recruit list have. If so, these should be marked with a ! or * or something.

EZE
Posts: 17
Joined: March 21st, 2009, 4:10 am

Re: Version 1.7/1.8 Scenario Review: LoW 17 - Breaking the S

Post by EZE » November 25th, 2010, 12:52 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.8 Hard. 100 start gold.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
3 (low)

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Quite Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Storyline was good, not much dialog though.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Knowing that Uradredia was in over his head

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
9 (high)

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Adding dialog for someone to suggest linking up with Uradredia ASAP.
Adding dialog for Uradredia when you see him, or he you. "Well met" kind of stuff.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
One restart. I recalled mostly slow units and took too much time going north.
Second time was no problem with 1 Sylph, 2 Shyde, 2 Outrider blitzing north and killing everything.
My other slow loyal units and recalls took west orc, 100 gold is enough with loyal units along.

EZE
Posts: 17
Joined: March 21st, 2009, 4:10 am

Re: Scenario Review: LoW 17 - Breaking the Siege

Post by EZE » November 25th, 2010, 12:59 pm

DeusIX wrote:
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

This scenario is a gamebreaker. I can't complete it and i'm quite frustrated. Ally dies between turns 7-21.
This level expects that you have flying units. I had one. and 4 others with the quick attribute.
The sylp can reach the ally and with relentless save/reload i'm able to save him. however my main troops are too slow to complete the mission. I can vanquish 2 bases but that's it, before timeout.
technically, it may be possible to complete this scenario if i save/load perfectly, but i don't like that kind of gameplay.
Scouts, Riders, and Outriders are a little slower than flying but can get there in time.
It is true that just Scouts won't kill much, but they can delay until your slower troops arrive.
Also, try to avoid taking white's houses so he can keep recruiting.

0mark
Posts: 3
Joined: January 6th, 2011, 9:02 pm

Re: Version 1.7/1.8 Scenario Review: LoW 17 - Breaking the S

Post by 0mark » January 6th, 2011, 10:42 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Easy, 1.8.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
Automatic fail without further information: The ally just dies.
6, since i had read in the walkthrought that i will need flying units later, so i had four of them. I also read in this thread that attacking sw is a good idea, which helped a lot. So, would be 9 or 10 without all the help i think.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Would helpful to know that the ally will die in a few turns...

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Slow units, and the fog.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
4, with all the slow units its like playing chess in pool of honey :)

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Hint that the ally may die soon. Some more hexes without snow, or some faster units.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Jabie
Posts: 107
Joined: December 2nd, 2010, 12:50 pm

Re: Version 1.7/1.8 Scenario Review: LoW 17 - Breaking the S

Post by Jabie » January 9th, 2011, 4:34 pm

1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

Easy 1.8.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

9. I beat it in the end, but it was pretty nasty.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Don't let your ally die. Kill all three leaders.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

On my first occasion, my ally died before I even got to him. This gave me a Huh? moment. See the Section 7 for how to deal with this.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Slow speed of most units.

Fog of war for me but not my enemies. (The Orcs could have FoW too - See Changes about this)

No gold. The scenario "Human Alliance" will pretty much destroy a player's gold reserves. After this you have "The Chief must die" where you can (and should level) Kalenz but no opportunity to gain any gold. As a consequence you will come into this scenario with next to no cash.

Ally AI. Not too bad, but there were times when I wanted him to stay put in the forest and leave the leader assassinations to me.

Kior-Pur's reserves. Level 3 Direwolf Riders! As if this scenario wasn't hard enough as it is!

Time. Fog of War breeds caution. Three camps of units spread far apart, and an ally to babysit. It wasn't too bad on Easy, but I suspect it'll be very tight on Medium / Hard.

For the record, this was my strategy: Cleodil + Loyal Outrider + 2 Sydhes head North to my ally. 1 Scout grabs nearby villages. Rest of army +2 summoned Druids heads West. Team Babysitter rescue my ally. Army slowly ploughs through opposition. Druids heal anyone who needs to be healed. Scout joins them later on.

Having stabilised my Ally, Team Babysitter heads West and takes out the Leader. Meanwhile the army reaches Kior-Pur who calls for reserves. Kior goes down but four or five Direwolf Riders turn up. The Outrider tangles up a Direwolf Rider whilst the remainder of Team Babysitter heads East to take out the remaining Leader. The Army finishes off the remaining Direwolf riders, but is too far from the action to get to Enemy Leader 3. The three Sydhe take out the final Leader.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

3. It's too challenging. I really didn't need the Dire Wolves. Babysitting an ally can be tricky at the best of times, but babysitting you can't see is no fun whatsoever.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

I should be able to see everything that Uradrelia and his units can see. (You can justify this by saying we are communicating through "The Voice of the Forest")

The orcs could have Fog of War. If you add a Goblin for each team and a couple of Loyal Elven Fighters for my ally to care of them, they'll know where the Elvish ally is, but they'll have the same disadvantage as I have.

Remove the Direwolf reinforcements (or reduce them to Level 1). My army wasn't going to get to the third enemy leader anyway.

tom030890
Posts: 30
Joined: January 16th, 2011, 4:30 pm

Re: Version 1.7/1.8 Scenario Review: LoW 17 - Breaking the S

Post by tom030890 » January 16th, 2011, 9:58 pm

The Legend of Wesmere, scenario 17 - Breaking the Siege:

(1) Hard 1.8
(2) 10 in the early attempts due to northern leader dying
(3) Clear Kill the leaders
(4) reasonable relieving the beleaguered general scenario
(5) Northern leader not dying
(6) 4
(7) Less snow patches to give more speed.
(8) Initially northern leader dying.

Strategy: Send Shyde Cleodil to the northern leaders castle to recruit a horde of lvl 3 nasties and protect the northern leader. Grab a few villages on the way.
Kalenz recruits a couple of riders then trudges west to fight the southwest boss. Maximise village grabbing to keep enemies reinforcements down.

croonx
Posts: 1
Joined: July 29th, 2011, 9:02 pm

Re: Version 1.7/1.8 Scenario Review: LoW 17 - Breaking the S

Post by croonx » July 29th, 2011, 9:10 pm

Impossible to pass.
I have no idea what the author had in mind creating this map?
This game does not make any joy.
Something should be changed.

Skippy
Posts: 85
Joined: February 10th, 2006, 2:09 am
Location: Sydney

Re: Version 1.7/1.8 Scenario Review: LoW 17 - Breaking the S

Post by Skippy » January 22nd, 2012, 12:01 am

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.8.6 - Medium.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
10 - it's broken.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
You mean the actual objective or the real one that is revealed only if you read these boards? Completely opaque.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Unclear - where exactly is my ally? What team colour is my ally? Oh, he's dead already?

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Moving fast enough over the frozen wastes. Working out what is going on through the fog of war. Realizing that this is a complete gotcha.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
1 - it's broken. For those that say something like "when you know what's going on it is clear" are missing the point. It is not possible to work out what is going on internal to the game. Having to come here for information and realizing how much of a gotcha this episode is signposts how broken this scenario is. This is really much more than working out the right tactics. I really hope it has been fixed for 1.10.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Provide explicit instructions such as are provided in the discussion here internal to the scenario. And then change it such that it isn't a gotcha where someone possibly has to go back a long way to recruit the right units.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?[/quote]
The mysterious message that arrives on turn 7 or so - you loose. Lather, rinse, repeat.

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