V1.9/1.10 - 05 - The Saurian Treasury

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V1.9/1.10 - 05 - The Saurian Treasury

Postby Content Feedback » October 8th, 2008, 12:22 pm

The Legend of Wesmere, scenario 5 - The Saurian Treasury:

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 5 - The Saurian Treasury

Postby fabi » December 3rd, 2008, 9:08 pm

A player suggested to mark the units that need to be killed after the treasury has been reached by the player.
He mentioned that the scenario objectives don't match the coded gameplay while reading that you need to "Enter the Saurian Treasury and leave with the gold".
Loonycyborg's idea was that the player has to reach a location or even escort a treasury wagon to it.
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 5 - The Saurian Treasury

Postby Wintermute » December 4th, 2008, 2:45 am

...and that player is me! :wink:
I agree that an escort mission would be fun. I think there is a lack of them in campaigns in general.
"I just started playing this game a few days ago, and I already see some balance issues."
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 5 - The Saurian Treasury

Postby fabi » December 4th, 2008, 11:54 am

There is no image for a treasury wagon that is steered by an elf.
And I can't imagine where Kalenz could organize one from.
So it's maybe a better solution to code that an elvish scout must transport the gold.
When carrying the gold that scout would be slower than normal.
If killed the treasury is dropped and another scout can fetch it again.
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 5 - The Saurian Treasury

Postby csarmi » December 8th, 2008, 1:05 pm

The problem is that it's quite trivial to kill everything on the map (as of now), especially with you swimming in gold already (actually, I don't understand why I would want to sack a treasury for 400g when I have more at hand already...)
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 5 - The Saurian Treasury

Postby fabi » December 8th, 2008, 1:21 pm

csarmi wrote:The problem is that it's quite trivial to kill everything on the map (as of now), especially with you swimming in gold already (actually, I don't understand why I would want to sack a treasury for 400g when I have more at hand already...)


At what difficult level did you play at?
1.5.6 or svn?
The gold you get for stealing the treasury back should be 1800. Did you only get 400?
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 5 - The Saurian Treasury

Postby santi » December 12th, 2008, 9:26 am

The challenge of the scenario is to win quickly before the rest of the Saurians catch up with you and you face loses, particularly to important(must not die or loyal) units. So the point is to blitz instead of following standard anti-saurian tactics (holding the line and protecting the wounded).
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 5 - The Saurian Treasury

Postby governor » December 12th, 2008, 4:14 pm

Fair enough, however, since the ai is so scared of my units, it is very easy to force all the saurians to the western hills, effectively negating any 'challenge'. When I played this on medium, I did not lose a single unit and did not bother taking the treasury until I dispatched all but green leader. When I played on hard, I forgot about the spawns that come out of the treasury, so I was forced to dispatch them quickly in order to save some units. I finished the scenario on turn 8 with only a few enemy kills, plenty of turns remaining and nearly every enemy on the western hills/mountains.

As was discussed earlier, the saurian that ends the scenario when killed is not marked and therefore, even though I wanted to pursue more experience for the army I recruited, I was unable to.
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 5 - The Saurian Treasury

Postby santi » January 25th, 2009, 5:33 pm

Thanks for the input; I think both strategies are ok. If you are willing to sacrifice a couple of units to draw the saurians out(especially their leader so he can no longerr recruit), maybe you can make it to the treasury before their reinforcements arrive
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 5 - The Saurian Treasury

Postby taemyr » January 26th, 2009, 6:22 am

santi wrote:Thanks for the input; I think both strategies are ok. If you are willing to sacrifice a couple of units to draw the saurians out(especially their leader so he can no longerr recruit), maybe you can make it to the treasury before their reinforcements arrive


Maybe autorecruit a scout and a fighter to make this a more attractive strategy, I am reluctant to sacrifice loyal units.
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 5 - The Saurian Treasury

Postby santi » January 26th, 2009, 7:02 am

Correct; loyal units should be preserved
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 5 - The Saurian Treasury

Postby Majki-Fajki » April 19th, 2010, 7:45 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Hard. 1.8
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
10.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Nice. Liked the idea of going after saurian thiefs.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Everything. Scenario (on hard level) is completely fun-less. It has frakked up units and it's totally unbalanced. I'm surprised, that after SO MUCH BETA-TESTING it's still so anti-player.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
0. Remove it or rewrite it.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Remove it from campaign.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Playing "Legend of Wesmere" on hard level is nothing more than save/load routine.
(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
N/A
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 5 - The Saurian Treasury

Postby Maiklas3000 » June 25th, 2010, 2:36 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
hard; 1.8.1

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
9

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Not clear even after playing the scenario several times (with one win.) The text about the option to win by killing both leaders is removed if you enter the treasury. So, in a later game when I decided to pursue the second leader, I skipped the treasury altogether, afraid to enter it, for fear that I would no longer have the option to win by killing both leaders.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Fine. Short is good.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
This is an extremely difficult scenario, requiring both the right mix of units and the right strategy. Two saurians can kill many kinds of units even when healthy, especially at night. On hard, the limited number of turns prevents you from passively digging in around the starting fortress and also makes it a race if you want to kill the second leader (or even retrieve the treasure, I think.)

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7; pretty darn fun, but suffers from an anti-climatic finish (like most scenarios) and it's a tad too hard early on, plus there is time pressure, but there is no explicit warning that time is precious.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Clarify objectives. Give the "hard" setting one more turn; the problem is that once you finish off the first leader, you may look to see how many turns it will take to reach the second leader and find you are about one turn short. (It actually isn't true, though, since he'll come running to you when you get close.)

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Lost due to time twice.

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
N/A

* * *

I won on hard with minimum gold (200) and without using "go back to turn XX" anytime in the campaign up to this point. My losses were a shaman and a ranger. Here are some tips for anyone needing help...

* Recruiting: Saurians are blade vulnerable and magic resistant and dish out a lot of damage, so I chose to bring mostly fighters/captains/marshalls and healers, supplemented by ranger types, while I benched my enchantress and sorceresses. Including the starting shyde, I had four healers plus a shaman. They were all kept quite busy. I suggest buying only 4-6 level 1 units on the first turn, then spending the rest on the second turn, to try to squeeze out another unit.

* Ripe units: Units that are about to level up are quite useful in this scenario for a couple of reasons. First, you can use them to attack, and then follow up to kill with another unit. Second, you can use them to hold key spots, like your flanks or points. Marshalls can be used in both these ways too. Avengers will do in a pinch. The saurians are so afraid of marshalls that when I sent one alone to sit on the enemy's keep, they didn't attack him or swarm him.

* Strategy: The general idea is to swing south through the forest and take out the southern leader swiftly, so that he stops recruiting. More passive approaches will run out of time on the hard setting. Form a line. If your line is not straight, that's okay because holding good terrain is more important, but avoid gaps, or the skirmishers will tear up your lines. ("Control-v" is a necessity, not a luxury.) My line was like an upside down "w" across the southern forest. If you make good progress, then on turn 4 the southern leader will be induced to dash out of his lair and into your forces. Kill him at almost any cost. By now, the northern leader's forces will be smashing into yours, and you will be hard pressed, but defend passively, only attacking to take out the augers and any easy pickings. Suddenly, the enemy forces will be few, and at the right time you should carefully break your lines and go on the offensive. On hard, you need to head north at good speed if you want to take out the northern leader, so let your slower forces pick off the stragglers. Or if you have a scout, you can go to the treasury.

* Tactics: Be passive-aggressive, especially at night. That is, often wait for the saurians to make their attacks, then single out their weakened units with your full strength ones. Don't break your line to do it, unless there are few saurians left. Send your marshalls running up and down the line to support attacks before they return to the front (if at reasonable strength.) A raw recruit fighter supported by a marshall is deadly to saurians.

Replay attached.
LOW-The_Saurian_Treasury_replay.gz
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 5 - The Saurian Treasury

Postby Thrash » July 2nd, 2010, 2:59 am

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

1.8.2, medium

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

3

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

OK

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Trying to form a line long enough not to lose any major units. I ended up losing one Avenger when he got unlucky during his attack, taking a lot of damage and then got attacked from 3 sides on defense.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

8, good experience in keeping line together.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

It was the usual mop-up at the end, but don't know anything can be done about that.


(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

First time I played it I tried to hold the area around the garrison, it was doable but I lost too many key units trying to protect myself from the East and North (and somewhat the South). Second time I ran everyone South and held the Southern forest, which worked well (modulo my unlucky Avenger).

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?

Don't know WML.
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 5 - The Saurian Treasury

Postby Zenogias » July 11th, 2010, 8:51 am

After you steal the gold, the unit carrying the gold still has the gold coins item image on top of him if he is recalled in future scenarios.
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