V1.7/1.8 - 02 - Hostile Mountains

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V1.7/1.8 - 02 - Hostile Mountains

Post by Content Feedback » October 8th, 2008, 12:08 pm

Hostile Mountains is the second scenario of The Legend of Wesmere. Feel free to reply to this thread and answer the following questions about it so that we know the opinion of the user base about the scenario.

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?

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The1exile
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 2 - Hostile Mountains

Post by The1exile » December 6th, 2008, 12:24 pm

(1) version 1.5.6 for windows, medium difficulty
(2) 7
(3) Not lacking in clarity at all.
(4) It was good.
(5) For challenges, I only really have one major one: that stupid dwarf! I'm pushing south as fast as I can, on my side of the river, but the trolls are attacking the dwarves too, and while they fight quite well he has no idea how to defend himself. Turns 12 and 12 I was forced to resort to saveloading to get the odds and prevent him being killed by an odd troll who'd make his way into the castle. The most annoying thing was that he'd build steadfasts who could easily have held them back longer if he'd built them to the hex south rather than north (all the trolls are south, after all) and used ZoC to keep the trolls out.
(6) 6
(7) Tweak the dwarf AI, perhaps. Or maybe make trolls more likely to go north than east?
(8) As with 5, only Olurf.
(9) Not got a clue about WML, sorry. :)
Rubies for passion, rubies for revenge.

taemyr
Posts: 65
Joined: September 1st, 2007, 12:33 pm

Re: Scenario Review: LoW 2 - Hostile Mountains

Post by taemyr » January 20th, 2009, 3:01 am

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.5.8 medium
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2. There is not really room for maneuver here. So not really room for much mistakes either. Keeping losses at a reasonable level would be a 9 or 10, since I lack units even close to leveled.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
The must in "Kalenz must reach the signpost" makes it seem that the scenario will not end when Grugl dies. So it's somewhat unclear if this is an and or an or. I can't see that it's reasonable to bypass Grugl without killing him though. Seems very painful to try.(*) So you find out that it's an Or when he dies.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Clear, gets the point across without slowing the gameplay down.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
None, but I made no real attempt at keeping causalities down. Trying to do so would be very hard.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
3, it's to much of a pure slugging match.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
A bit more room to maneuver on the west side of the river.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Nope.

(*) Actually, I see one way for this that might be viable. Hang back in the castle until the dwarf is reduced, then march through his mountains rather than fighting the troll. Does the campaign handle the death of Olurf? (**)
(**) Edit: ah, just noticed. Death of Olurf is a loss, so this options gets very tricky.

taemyr
Posts: 65
Joined: September 1st, 2007, 12:33 pm

Re: Scenario Review: LoW 2 - Hostile Mountains

Post by taemyr » January 24th, 2009, 1:10 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.5.8 Hard
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
9, I needed a fair bit of save-loading to get through here. I still see little to play on, but on hard a straight up slugging match is a loss since the level 3 trolls kills too quickly.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
The must in "Kalenz must reach the signpost" makes it seem that the scenario will not end when Grugl dies. Which is the case on hard, but not on medium. Since there is no difference in wording it's fairly clear that this is ambiguous.(*)
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Clear, gets the point across without slowing the gameplay down.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Level 3 trolls kills level 1 archers instantly. In addition you are very short on time.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
4, it's to much of a pure slugging match.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
A bit more room to maneuver on the west side of the river.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
I played this scenario in save-loading mode:) Other than that, I lost on time since it's not sufficient to kill Grugl. I had assumed it was since it was enough when I played through on medium.

(*) It's possible that this was not due to difficulty setting, but rather due to the fact that the trolls didn't cross over to the east side of the river. So Olurf was still "hostile" when Grugl died. If this is the case it really needs to be fixed.

Bircoph
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Joined: October 5th, 2007, 8:23 pm

Re: Scenario Review: LoW 2 - Hostile Mountains

Post by Bircoph » February 12th, 2009, 4:36 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

1.5.8+svn (r32232), hard.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

10. Indeed the only way to win was to force trolls to tresspass dwarfs terriotory. I footholded on the isle and eventually trolls step unto the land of dwarfs. Really, without this trick I see no way to win against 3rd level units with a small group of 1st/2nd level units.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Not clear enough. Maybe this is a bug, but scenario ended as soon as I killed troll leader, there was no need to reach the exit point, but scenario objectives states both of them.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Normal.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

To make trolls trespass dwarf's realm and to stand against them long enough only with 100 starting gold.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

8

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

No idea. Some mermen or monsters in the water?

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Yeah, there were plenty of them, usually when my critical units were killed by the troll's group attack. Really, I reloaded often on this scenario.

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?

Dunno.
Per aspera ad astra!

Grothendieck
Posts: 6
Joined: March 10th, 2009, 8:27 pm

Re: Scenario Review: LoW 2 - Hostile Mountains

Post by Grothendieck » March 21st, 2009, 6:59 pm

In the dialogue preceding this scenario, Kalenz says "stay off the east banD of the river" when he should say "east banK."

PhilipN
Posts: 29
Joined: October 27th, 2008, 4:49 am

Re: Scenario Review: LoW 2 - Hostile Mountains

Post by PhilipN » May 15th, 2009, 2:05 am

I figured that the "east band" thing was some expression of either old English or a foreign dialect; I didn't realize that it was a typo!

I needed to do a fair bit of saveloading as I had to figure out a good strategy for this map (it turns out that instead of rushing the troll and trying to hold the forests, you need to keep your forces near your keep so that when the trolls send attackers, they trespass on Dwarvish lands; only then can you try to make progress; in hindsight I suspect that the wesnoth tactical guide's admonition for elves to set up their battle line on the edge of the forest doesn't apply here as trolls get less defense in forest than on mountains, so you want to line up your elves one tile behind the front of the forest).

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santi
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 2 - Hostile Mountains

Post by santi » May 15th, 2009, 5:24 am

My strategy is: send two scouts to grab the villages, then keep replenishing the troops; the fight takes place on the island or the forest next to it. Keep your troops in good terrain and keep them coming.
Overall I think this scenario can be brutal depending on whether the dwarves enter the fight or not, but it is not hard. Rigt now the next one is very hard because of the new gold reduction formula and the fact that your ally basically does nothing

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santi
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 2 - Hostile Mountains

Post by santi » June 1st, 2009, 9:09 pm

A replay on hard with the dwarves hardly helping(I should note though that as it is gold makes a difference for the next scenario, so winning a round earlier or later could be quite important in how much you sweat on the next):
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Last edited by santi on June 10th, 2009, 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

miekka
Posts: 62
Joined: December 30th, 2007, 2:48 pm

Re: Scenario Review: LoW 2 - Hostile Mountains

Post by miekka » June 10th, 2009, 11:20 am

1. easy 1.6.2
2. 2, the dwarves helped a lot
3. I got somewhat confused there... I thought I had to defeat Gurgl AND go to the signpost, but the scenario ended right away when he died.
4. Very clear and, good
5. none
6. 7
7. none
8. Yeah, after getting frustrated on medium difficulty, I restarted the campaign on easy.
9. -

axelotl
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Joined: June 12th, 2009, 7:25 pm

Re: Scenario Review: LoW 2 - Hostile Mountains

Post by axelotl » June 12th, 2009, 10:23 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

easy 1.6(?); hard 1.6.2

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

9

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

The "Get Kalenz to the signpost" objective seems irrelevant. Does anyone ever win that way?

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Clear.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Persuading the orcs to invade the dwarvish land.
Keeping the main characters (especially Landar) alive.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

6

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

I played this scenario on "hard" several times, with widely different results (2 wins, multiple losses). The main factor in the result seems to be how soon (and at a what time of day) the dwarves get involved. This feels too much like "luck" rather than "strategy".

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Death of Landar or Kalenz. Against 3 Troll Warriors, and on only the second scenario, I don't have enough hitting power to keep them out of the front line. A couple of (un)lucky hits later, and it's time to restart ...

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?

It's not clear to me why the (fiercely independent) Dwarves are initially shown as allied with the Trolls on normal/hard but not on easy. How does this affect the gameplay?
Don't axe a little. Axe a lottle.

silent
Posts: 244
Joined: February 20th, 2009, 5:53 am

Re: Scenario Review: LoW 2 - Hostile Mountains

Post by silent » June 20th, 2009, 1:46 am

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Medium 1.6 (the middle difficulty)
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
9. Level 2 trolls vs level 1 elves, and it'd be a 10 if I hadn't leveled some shamans very quickly into sorceress'
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear enough, the troll is in the way so I decided a leader kill was the way to go.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Clear enough.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Turn limit and keeping required/loyal characters out of harm's way
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
2. Not really fun at all
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Could some of the trolls be replaced with whelps, or the turn limit extended slightly?
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
I had to save load when a troll landed both hits on a druid, and on the very last turn when I needed both sorceress' and a ranger to land the majority of their hits on grugl
(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
N/A

One question. Is it necessary to trigger Olurf at all? I didn't but most people seemed to trigger him into attacking to help out

Schierke
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Location: Colombia.

Re: Scenario Review: LoW 2 - Hostile Mountains

Post by Schierke » April 5th, 2010, 5:20 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

Medium 1.8.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

5.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Completely clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

There wasn't much, but i like the attitude of the dwarf leader.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

-Level 2 trolls against level 1 elves.

-Rocklobbers, they do nasty damage both in melee and ranged.

-Bad terrain and large number of trolls means you can't sorround and kill them quickly.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

5, to be honest i really like it, but the fact that you can't really do much than face the troll head on and hope the dwarves are effective in combat makes it a little boring.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

I think is fine, not every scenario should be crazy fun.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Trolls getting lucky and opening a can of whup ass on me :(.

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Majki-Fajki
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 2 - Hostile Mountains

Post by Majki-Fajki » April 18th, 2010, 3:00 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Hard. 1.8
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8. Some luck is needed. Trolls need to attack dwarfs, and dwarfs need to hit them, when they stand in water. Other way trolls massacre dwarfs. If Trolls act that way, game begins.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
I was confused, when I killed troll leader, mission was completed. The objective of the scenario should state that clearly "Reach the sign or kill enemy leader".
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Sweet. Dwarfs are aggressive, if you screw with them:)
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Get elvish captain ASAP. Then hunt for single trolls and level up elves, which is easy if you kill lvl.2 and lvl.3 trolls. After getting some veterans, fight goes smooth.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8. Like fighting with much stronger opponents.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Script better dwarfs.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Stupid charge of Dwarfs - straight into water tiles. After that - two turns and Olurf has lvl.3 guests in his house. And game ends. Their tactic could be scripted better - "Stick to the mountains boys!".
(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
N/A

Thrash
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Re: Scenario Review: LoW 2 - Hostile Mountains

Post by Thrash » June 26th, 2010, 4:29 pm

fabi wrote:(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.8.1, medium.
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2 if the dwarves get engaged, 7 otherwise.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
OK.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Once the dwarves get going, it becomes a race for XP to kill the trolls and troll leader before they have all the fun.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8. I found it a good tactical learning experience in learning when to attack and when not to.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Distract the dwarves somehow towards the end (turn ~20-22). I spent the last few turns just trying to figure out how to get past them to do anything.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
First time, attacking too much against the trolls with ranged attack and leaving myself vulnerable to their attack.
(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
Am not familar with WML.

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