Scenario Review: (UTBS) 2. Across the Harsh Sands

Feedback for the mainline campaign Under the Burning Suns.

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IB
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Re: Across the Harsh Sands Bandit Leader

Post by IB » June 21st, 2007, 4:09 am

Detritus2099 wrote:The Bandit Leader in Across the Harsh Sands is currently coming up as an ally, but the scenario will not finish unless he is dead...

Not particularly easy!

This is using 1.3.3
Yeah, seems his team number is set wrong. Also when I load a save game I'm told they are all corrupt.

Kani
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Joined: August 18th, 2007, 10:26 pm

Post by Kani » August 18th, 2007, 10:31 pm

Version 1.3.6: It doesn't seem that my units are able to heal their heat-drain however long they spend in the water. Furthermore the ring gained from the scorpions doesn't seem to do any good. There was a hell of a lot of error messages when loading a game. Due to these errors I didn't complete the scenario and thus cannot rate it.

dthurston
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Post by dthurston » August 18th, 2007, 11:48 pm

Kani wrote:Version 1.3.6: It doesn't seem that my units are able to heal their heat-drain however long they spend in the water. Furthermore the ring gained from the scorpions doesn't seem to do any good. There was a hell of a lot of error messages when loading a game. Due to these errors I didn't complete the scenario and thus cannot rate it.
These errors are all fixed in SVN. They are also discussed at http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic. ... &start=675.

dthurston
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Across the Harsh Sands feedback

Post by dthurston » August 19th, 2007, 4:10 am

Now that the gameplay bugs are fixed, it's time for a review! I was playing on the hardest level.
  • The effect of reducing melee damage is interesting. Of course it makes units with ranged attacks relatively much more useful, but that's clear from the beginning. It has the desired effect of making you stop at the oases. The current mechanics, where the attacks get restored as soon as you move to an oasis, make it much easier to heal everyone up quickly.

    The hunting ogres and the bandits ended up bashing each other to death. I think this could be fixed by spawning the bandits a little later (so you encounter them closer to the oasis) and making both of them target the player more. (I first started fighting both on turn 10, well after they are spawned on turn 5.)

    Similarly Elyssa's undead and the castle ogres ended up killing each other: the undead were created right on top of the castle. The current range where their creation is triggered looks very strange; is it a typo? I would prefer to have them spawned like the scorpions, rather than so deterministically.

    Perhaps as a result of the third point, the bandit leader ended up having very negative gold by the time I got in range of him. Perhaps the patrol should be made loyal?
I stopped playing when I saw the negative gold, as it was going to be too easy. I'm happy to work on any of the problematic points above.

Folket
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Joined: October 26th, 2007, 3:47 pm

Post by Folket » October 31st, 2007, 12:13 pm

I had a very strange bug at the end of this scenario. When I defeated the bandit he left a bottle of holy water on the ground. Any unit I wanted the holy water on had allready moved so I decieded not to pick it up. Instead I sent a unit to capture a village and for some reason he got the bottle.

This is when playing the campaign on challenging under 1.3.9

Rhuvaen
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Post by Rhuvaen » October 31st, 2007, 1:01 pm

Folket wrote:This is when playing the campaign on challenging under 1.3.9
Good catch! :)

I've updated the scenario and will commit a fix for the upcoming release.

Jozrael
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Post by Jozrael » November 9th, 2007, 7:29 am

Ditto on that holy water.

Btw, THE DUST DEVIL IS SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO CUTEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

I actually save/loaded once cuz I forgot he was weak to fire and sent him up against an orcish archer right before he was about to heal :x. I don't like saveloading, but totally worth it.

SO ADORABLE

Plz tell me I can keep him for the whole campaign?

Also, btw, I'm on easy (Have beaten on hard in 1.2) just for a lark...do we get the devil no matter the difficulty? He makes the campaign very very easy for me (if enjoyable ^^)

Jozrael
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Post by Jozrael » November 25th, 2007, 2:07 am

1: 1.3.11 - Nightmare :twisted:
2: 5. It's a very nice 'goodies' scenario. The dust devil is adorable as always, and much more balanced. I miss its uber pwnage, but that's a good sign - its not overpowered anymore. Also: I had a normal AMLA after about 4 levelups for this in later levels: should the RPG style advancement tree stop? I noticed it continued the melee advancement, which was what I had been giving it, so maybe it assumed this.
3: Clear.
4: Excellent.
5: Finding the right balance of absolutely owning each compartment of the campaign vs. speed.
6: 9. The mirage was irritating, my warriors fighting very ineffectively at the end. Hurrah for the no-desert-effect-item on Kaleh.
7: Perhaps shorten the turns further but give a couple villages (to slightly reduce upkeep effects) in the beginning to give more of a sense of urgency.

miekka
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Post by miekka » December 30th, 2007, 3:04 pm

1. 1.27, easiest
2. 4, I guess I got lucky since I lost no units at all
3. Very.
4. Good, but nothing special
5. Not getting my elves killed by the strong robbers (don't remember their names)
6. 7.
7. nothing
8. 133.

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Mist
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 2. Across the Harsh Sands

Post by Mist » March 16th, 2008, 2:46 am

Please note new set of questions in the first post and use these for feedback from now on.
Somewhere, between the sacred silence and sleep.
Disorder.

Jozrael
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 2. Across the Harsh Sands

Post by Jozrael » February 13th, 2009, 2:58 pm

Odd bug in this scenario: when I encountered the Black Hand bandits around turn 14, the first (thug) had 38/32 hp...

Also, the bandits were not being healed properly of their dehydration by sitting in the oasis. Not that they or the ogres were properly taking dehydration damage in the first place, either (it seems they only took 1 point of damage-dealing damage, and no hitpoint damage).

I also liked it when the undead that talks about being scorched was prevoiusly injured. Perhaps make it a critically injured (i.e. at 1/3 hp) draug instead of a revenant again?

ariondys
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 2. Across the Harsh Sands

Post by ariondys » April 1st, 2009, 11:59 pm

I've been playtesting this campaign a good deal. I recently uninstalled 1.4 and compiled & installed 1.6.

Hydration:
...changes to the dehydration/healing. They no longer heal during the day, instead the healers prevent dehydration and restore attack-damage if dehydrated. Given that I'm taking along 3 healers, I'm now greatly looking forward to night when I can heal. Therefore, moving into the water is almost meaningless regarding hydration now. Basically an issue of Water vs. Night, which is best in the desert.

Before, during the 1.4 version, the max hitpoints would be capped until the unit would refreshed in the water. This seemed desirable. The damage would lower also until getting into the water. And you could heal a bit during the day if you took damage.

I think it's "hard" as intended now that the daytime damage is 4 instead of 2, that's a desirable feature that stressed my units out. If it was 2 on easy, 3 on medium, and 4 on hard, and the dehydration otherwise worked as before that would be good.

The Mirage:
this triggers in a narrow rectangle south of the oasis. One can refresh in it fighting bandits when you approach it from the north and then still trigger the mirage event after using the oasis if you step into the area just south of it. Perhaps the mirage trigger should cover the oasis too, radiating for a couple hexes outwards.

Note: the old version in 1.4 gave upkeep=free (lowered income temporarily for 1 turn though)
Much appreciated, seemed appropriate since then you bring along the tribe, and level up units, and are sad if they die. I was painstakingly avoiding having my non-loyal level 1 units not level to save money here. And stacking xp into my loyal heroes. Could be strategically wrong... by the 5th scenario I had 4 heroes, one about to level(that's good for a whole turn) instead of 3 champions.

perhaps there are many reconstructions? Must be hard on the balancing... on my friend's Windows version, 1.4.1, the incomes are different. I thought maybe I had gotten 1.5, but I struggled with making or compiling it, then it was still labeled 1.4, and I was just confused about what files were actually the ones installed.

FaiKHR
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 2. Across the Harsh Sands

Post by FaiKHR » March 2nd, 2010, 7:34 pm

1) What version and difficulty level did you play the scenario on? Please do not submit feedback from pre 1.4.

Easy, 1.7.8

2) Do you think the difficulty is adequate to the level? If not describe the issue that made the scenario to easy/hard.

Very easy

3) Was there any event that caused you to almost instantly loose, or made the scenario unplayable without reload?

No


4) Do you like the storyline and the dialogues? If not what part/character lags behind or what would you like changed?

The dialogue was very good.

5) Do you think the scenario was fun? Please write down some thoughts about gameplay, mood etc.

Yes, this scenario along with the first has been one of my all time favorites. I really liked the new idea of dehydration with a dot. I felt however the map is maybe smaller than it used to be? Therefore i went along the right hand side but still managed to see half of the map.

Optional
5) Do you think the scenario's WML is clear and commented well enough? If not which part would you like to see improved?

Molean
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Joined: July 25th, 2009, 7:11 pm

Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 2. Across the Harsh Sands

Post by Molean » April 19th, 2010, 8:33 pm

1) What version and difficulty level did you play the scenario on?

1.8 the middle difficulty level setting.

2) Do you think the difficulty is adequate to the level? If not describe the issue that made the scenario to easy/hard.

The scenario was way too easy because of enemy units being effected by the sun, if you do it right, you can end up facing enemies that have 1 hp, in which case the challenge is chasing them down to ping them. The undead and scorpions weren't too hard either, as long as you didn't take more then one group on at the same time trapped between them or something (which I didn't)

Oasis's were irrelevant too with your healers acting like walking oasis's. I don't recall a proper explanation that units wouldn't heal with the suns effect next to a druid.

The idea of sun stroke was really great, but I think it could use some improvement. I have the following suggestions regarding the suns effect.

That druids healing only prevent part of the suns damage, and doesn't prevent the sunstroke itself. That shamans prevent even less of the less of the damage.

That stepping on a oasis tile confers complete protection from the sun for a day or two. But druids still unable to heal during the day (everyones too tired from the sun) but the evening and morning could be different. The idea is that your refilling your water bottles at the oasis. That way, getting to oasis's is actually important.

With said change to the sun system, if the enemy AI is smart enough to keep on going back to the oasis to recharge when it needs it, then we won't be facing sun-stroked 1 hp bandits. If the AI can't manage that, then just make all its units immune.

Further suggestions:

Maybe use special enemy humans, ogres, and only ghosts for undead (or special undead units that aren't ghosts) that can travel fast with reasonable defense on sand. The enemies limited movement also contributed with the sun thing to make the map way too easy. Hey, they are native to these sands, you would think they would able to travel well through them.

fabi
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 2. Across the Harsh Sands

Post by fabi » April 28th, 2010, 10:16 am

Molean wrote:1) What version and difficulty level did you play the scenario on?

1.8 the middle difficulty level setting.

2) Do you think the difficulty is adequate to the level? If not describe the issue that made the scenario to easy/hard.

The scenario was way too easy because of enemy units being effected by the sun, if you do it right, you can end up facing enemies that have 1 hp, in which case the challenge is chasing them down to ping them. The undead and scorpions weren't too hard either, as long as you didn't take more then one group on at the same time trapped between them or something (which I didn't)

Oasis's were irrelevant too with your healers acting like walking oasis's. I don't recall a proper explanation that units wouldn't heal with the suns effect next to a druid.

The idea of sun stroke was really great, but I think it could use some improvement. I have the following suggestions regarding the suns effect.

That druids healing only prevent part of the suns damage, and doesn't prevent the sunstroke itself. That shamans prevent even less of the less of the damage.

That stepping on a oasis tile confers complete protection from the sun for a day or two. But druids still unable to heal during the day (everyones too tired from the sun) but the evening and morning could be different. The idea is that your refilling your water bottles at the oasis. That way, getting to oasis's is actually important.

With said change to the sun system, if the enemy AI is smart enough to keep on going back to the oasis to recharge when it needs it, then we won't be facing sun-stroked 1 hp bandits. If the AI can't manage that, then just make all its units immune.

Further suggestions:

Maybe use special enemy humans, ogres, and only ghosts for undead (or special undead units that aren't ghosts) that can travel fast with reasonable defense on sand. The enemies limited movement also contributed with the sun thing to make the map way too easy. Hey, they are native to these sands, you would think they would able to travel well through them.
I plan to redo how the world in UtBS works completely.
It was my plan to do fire damage during the middays, cold damage at night.
The night might slow, the midday hasn't decided how to work yet.
Together with the desert elves no longer being lawful but liminal (meaning they are specialized at the twilight times of day)
that will change UtBS to some degree.

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