Scenario Review: (UTBS) 5. A Subterranean Struggle

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shadowblack
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 5. A Subterranean Struggle

Post by shadowblack » August 26th, 2010, 10:29 pm

In this attempt I chose to side with the dwarves:
1) What version and difficulty level did you play the scenario on? Please do not submit feedback from pre 1.4.
1.8.4, Desert Sentinel (Challenging)

2) Do you think the difficulty is adequate to the level? If not describe the issue that made the scenario to easy/hard.
If you’re very careful with where you put your units – or VERY lucky – it’s not very hard.

3) Was there any event that caused you to almost instantly loose, or made the scenario unplayable without reload?
Nothing, although losing almost all my dwarven allies came pretty close.

4) Do you like the storyline and the dialogues? If not what part/character lags behind or what would you like changed?
Very good.

5) Do you think the scenario was fun? Please write down some thoughts about gameplay, mood etc.
The spider and the ants are a very nasty surprise. If Zhul is a Shyde and you make the mistake to use her for scouting you can trigger the encounter on turn 2. Once you know about it, however, it is easy to go back to the start of turn and prepare for it.

Most dwarves vanishing and leaving me on my own due to plot was VERY annoying because they left some open spots in my defenses. Apart from that everything was fine.


6) Do you think the scenario's WML is clear and commented well enough? If not which part would you like to see improved?
Quite well documented, but some parts left me confused, as you have the same thing repeated for each difficulty. For example:

Code: Select all

#ifdef EASY
        recruit=Troll Whelp, Troll, Troll Rocklobber
#endif

#ifdef NORMAL
        recruit=Troll Whelp, Troll, Troll Rocklobber
#endif

#ifdef HARD
        recruit=Troll Whelp, Troll, Troll Rocklobber
#endif
If he can recruit the exact same units on all difficulties what’s the point of having a list for each difficulty? Why not just leave it as “recruit=Troll Whelp, Troll, Troll Rocklobber”?

Apart from that everything is fine.
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shadowblack
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 5. A Subterranean Struggle

Post by shadowblack » August 27th, 2010, 5:30 pm

In this attempt I chose to side with the trolls:
1) What version and difficulty level did you play the scenario on? Please do not submit feedback from pre 1.4.
1.8.4, Desert Sentinel (Challenging)

2) Do you think the difficulty is adequate to the level? If not describe the issue that made the scenario to easy/hard.
It’s fine, as long as you remember to Slow the enemies.

3) Was there any event that caused you to almost instantly loose, or made the scenario unplayable without reload?
No, nothing

4) Do you like the storyline and the dialogues? If not what part/character lags behind or what would you like changed?
Very good.

5) Do you think the scenario was fun? Please write down some thoughts about gameplay, mood etc.
Yes, it was. I enjoyed having trolls for allies for a change – usually they are enemies.

Losing most of my allies was just as annoying as when I sided with the dwarves, but holding off the dwarves on my own was much easier since the two shortest routes to my keep are 1 hex wide, providing me with a couple of choke points with most of enemy forces gathered there while the rest of my forces had far fewer enemies to deal with.

I seem to have taken a bit too long this time, as I start the next mission with a little over 400 gold while I started “In the tunnels of the trolls” with over 600, but I don’t mind.


6) Do you think the scenario's WML is clear and commented well enough? If not which part would you like to see improved?
Nothing to add to my previous post.
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Desert_Shyde
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 5. A Subterranean Struggle

Post by Desert_Shyde » January 22nd, 2011, 7:55 pm

I played the "Desert Sentinel" level on version 1.9.3.
I allied with the dwarves, and when the help showed up one of them was on impassable (36,20).
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Adamant14
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 5. A Subterranean Struggle

Post by Adamant14 » February 12th, 2011, 7:40 pm

I found the same bug.

I play 1.9.3.

A dwarv appear in a cave-wall

Line: 2676

Code: Select all

            [unit]
                type=Dwarvish Fighter
                id=Runin
                name= _ "Runin"
                x=36
                y=20
                side=1
                [modifications]
                    {TRAIT_LOYAL}
                    {TRAIT_QUICK}
                [/modifications]
                {IS_LOYAL}
            [/unit]
x,y=35,20 e.g. is free cave-floor near the other dwarves
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Pewskeepski
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 5. A Subterranean Struggle

Post by Pewskeepski » March 30th, 2011, 4:53 pm

(1) Difficulty, version? Challenging, 1.9.4 (788 gold)
(2) How difficult? (1-10) 7: I allied with trolls because dwarves are to commonly played as in other campaigns :)
(3) How clear? Very
(4) Dialog? Great
(5) Challenges? The first wave was rough. I was couped up in my keep while surrounded by dwarves and most of the trolls had gotten killed quickly. I pretty much went completely cannon fodder on them and recruited level ones on the vulnerable hexes while recalling advanced units in the safe places.
(6) How fun? (1-10) 7: My recall list consisted of:
  • 3 Archers (One became a ranger but died :()
    1 Avenger
    1 Captain
    1 Champion
    2 Fighters (One became a Captain, and the other died)
    1 Hero (Who became a Champion)
    1 Hunter
    1 Marshal
    4 Sentinels
    1 Shaman (Who became a Druid)
    1 Dust Devil
And I now have 4 Trolls :D
(7) Changes? I didn't like the trolls (Who were on side 1) just appearing out of nowhere. They should be placed on a keep, and moved to their spots.
(8) Reloads or restarts? A couple due to the death of Zhul. And I saved the game on turn thirty because it was time for school.
(9) WML? Well commented
(10) Replay? Attached
(11) Map? It seems bigger than it has to be :|

P.S I also had a thunderer appear in the wall.
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Maiklas3000
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 5. A Subterranean Struggle

Post by Maiklas3000 » July 23rd, 2011, 8:18 pm

1) Version and difficulty? 1.9.7, nightmare

2) Appropriately difficult? Yes, quite difficult. I won twice allied with the trolls (and lost a few times too) and lost the one time I allied with the dwarves.

3) Reloads? I lost a couple times to ulfseekers. When I allied with the dwarves, I ran out of time. Restarted from start on every loss.

4) Storyline and the dialogue? When the trolls said they would stay with me until the dwarves were dead, I thought they meant these dwarves. It turns out they will stay longer, I guess until the end of the campaign against the dwarves. So, I lost them all the first time, not understanding they could be recalled in later scenarios, and I went back to play the scenario from start again. Anyway, I suggest clarifying by having the trolls stay with you until no dwarf walks this world (or fife or whatever).

5) Fun, gameplay, mood, etc.? Fun and stressful.

Like someone above, I also don't like the loyal trolls teleporting into the battlefield. Couldn't they be released at the troll's keep earlier, timed to arrive on the turn they do now, and then when they first spot an elf unit they could give their dialog?

6) WML? Excellent, as usual.

Replay attached. It's not one of my best plays, as I made lots of mistakes and suboptimal moves. My plan to save the loyal trolls turned into a fiasco. I had sent several units to the area where they would arrive. However, the Dwarf grenadier squad (3 or 4 level 2 thunderers) was also moving there. When the loyal trolls appeared, I couldn't have them hold a line against the thunderers, because any two blasts would kill a troll. And my regular troops had 30% defense in that area, so fighting level 2 thunderers there was unthinkable. Several elf units died in rear guard action, including a level 3 as I recall, and the loyal Rocklobber also died to save his friends.
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podbelski
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 5. A Subterranean Struggle

Post by podbelski » August 3rd, 2011, 6:45 pm

1) What version and difficulty level did you play the scenario on?
1.9.6, top difficulty, reloaded 3 times

2) Do you think the difficulty is adequate to the level?
9/10 difficulty, the underground disadvantage is almost annoying but probably adequate for expert campaign/top diff level. Completed on my 2nd attempt, "dwarves" choice. Reloaded 3 times due to bad placements/poor attack decisions, and could have been forced to reload more but was lucky. I see it is a very tough situation when any unit can potentially be killed by just 2 enemies, and there are lots of them in a pitched battle.

I spent almost all my money on recruiting Hunters, and all of them were killed.

13 losses, 49 kills
finished in turn 41/41

5) Do you think the scenario was fun?
7/10, very good, but don't have a desire to replay it.

At this point, I have to abaddon my initial "no reloads" challenge, it's too tough for my skill and time I have, can't replay every scenario again and again till I happen to make no mistakes or am lucky to not be punished for a one.

PS
There is a troll appearing in a wall at <43;19>
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Jabie
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 5. A Subterranean Struggle

Post by Jabie » April 1st, 2012, 10:51 am

1) Version and difficulty?

Easiest. Sided with the Trolls.

2) Appropriately difficult?

Far too hard! 10.

You're going for an RPG here and the important thing about any RPG is the story, not the challenge. This is the level that almost caused me to give up. That's not a good sign. I got through this scenario and the next one by save-scumming. Players with less patience than myself will give up at this point.

My ally was annoying and had a habit of not doing what I wanted him to do, but I finally got through this scenario by letting *him* hold the choke hold over the chasm whilst I snuck an expeditionary force around the edge.

The Thunderguards were deadly and it seemed like every time I killed one my opponent summoned another. I'm at 30% defence on large portions of this map, so my enemy was consistently doing high amounts of damage to my largely immobile forces. Obviously Dwarves are going to be strong underground anyway, so the best approach is probably to grant less income to my opponents after their initial "kill all trolls" boost.

3) Reloads?

Far too often.

5) Fun, gameplay, mood, etc.? The ants and spider were kind of cute, but the main battle was no fun at all.

Once the Trolls join my side I should automatically be able to see their side of the map.

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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 5. A Subterranean Struggle

Post by WanderingHero » January 17th, 2013, 9:10 pm

(1) Challenging)
(2) How difficult? (1-10) 9, at least for me allying wit the trolls. A suddeny and rather unpleasent bump in the campaigns diffaculty. I found this a lot harder than the scenarios that came afterwards.
(3) How clear? Clear, though all the trolls leaving with little warning was annoying
(4) Dialog? Good
(5) Challenges? The first wave was rough. Once you get through that its pretty easy, though the amount of grunt fighters I threw probably ended up increasing the cost of my units later... having that sprung on me in a later scenario with no warning was annoying
(6) How fun? (1-10) 4 Annoying dificiulty spike, repetive to play through and then once you get through the painful flood and avoid having too many of your vets die to cheap shots, you have a slow crawl up the map to beat the leaders up. Definetly the least fun scenario in the campaign. Did feel kind of good when I finally beat it
(7) Shorten the map, make the difficulty spike less nasty.
(8) Many
(11) Map? It seems bigger than it has to be

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naomi
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 5. A Subterranean Struggle

Post by naomi » March 8th, 2013, 7:44 pm

1) What version and difficulty level?
1.10, Medium.

2) Do you think the difficulty is adequate to the level? If not describe the issue that made the scenario too easy/hard.
The difficulty's fine, in all but one aspect, which I will explain in detail for #3.

3) Was there any event that caused you to almost instantly loose, or made the scenario unplayable without reload?
There were so many freaking Thunderguards, and all of them were ridiculously lucky on the terrain. I had to recruit at least three fodder fighters every turn, and I lost so many that by the end I had two left, and one that had somehow managed to level to Desert Captain without dying painfully. I could slow the Steelclads and even the Explorers (with a bit of luck), but the Thunderguards were impossible to slow without significant losses to my Shamans, Druids, and Shydes; the TG were really only killable if I chucked all my fodder fighters at them for turn after turn. At one point, my stupid troll allies kept having their guys murdered by the Thunderguards, and several of them managed to level up, at which point I punched my monitor and went back about ten turns.

4) Do you like the storyline and the dialogues? If not what part/character lags behind or what would you like changed?
The two sides seem kind of unequal morally, as far as I'm concerned. The trolls act really noble in the dialog ("We are defending our women and children from the evil baby-killing invaders!" "We will help you, little ones, because we are a peaceloving people who just want a nice cave we can live in,"), and I think that players like myself who choose sides and units based on their behavior in the dialogs and such would probably go Troll about 90% of the time. The whole "THEM TROLLS'VE MURDERED MAH BOYS" gave the dwarves a vaguely moral reason to be attacking, but I found them waaay too greedy in the starting dialog, and when you put that together with the wanton child-murder the Trolls are accusing them of, you get a wholly unappetizing portrait of a bunch of guys who really have no good reason to be attacking anyone.
Maybe play down the gold aspect of the dwarvish attack, to make sure that both sides start out on more even moral ground? Or make the trolls more grey, ethically?

5) Do you think the scenario was fun? Please write down some thoughts about gameplay, mood etc.
I enjoyed this scenario overall. It was kind of a slog sometimes, and if you don't have the funds to maintain an endless stream of elvish fodder it can get pretty rough, but I felt justified in fighting for the trolls, and I loved having some loyal units who were actually not useless underground. Nothing about the scenario was difficult enough to encourage me to just quit (though the Thunderguards got close), and the map was pretty.

6) Do you think the scenario's WML is clear and commented well enough? If not which part would you like to see improved?
It was fine, from what I saw.

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flammstrudel
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 5. A Subterranean Struggle

Post by flammstrudel » April 13th, 2013, 9:21 pm

1) What version and difficulty level did you play the scenario on? Please do not submit feedback from pre 1.4.
1.10.2 - medium

2) Do you think the difficulty is adequate to the level? If not describe the issue that made the scenario to easy/hard.
6/10 if you opt for supporting the dwarfes. Fighting against them (my initial choice) proved to be way tougher due to their superior unit roster. Trolls have bad resistances and no high defenses - dwarfes feature the exact opposite and in addition to that the map layout makes a defense in the south (i. e. against the trolls) easier. I dont't know if it's intentional to have a hard mode easy mode choice, doesn't necessarily has to be a bad thing.

3) Was there any event that caused you to almost instantly loose, or made the scenario unplayable without reload?
No. Once again you get ambushed by an assassine. If your hero is wandering alone and with low health (maybe because the two other corridors are hopelessly flooded with AI units) this might mean certain doom and a restart. But I was lucky.

4) Do you like the storyline and the dialogues? If not what part/character lags behind or what would you like changed?
The parts of your loyal mage aren't that great. Somewhat artificial. Everything else was okay.

5) Do you think the scenario was fun? Please write down some thoughts about gameplay, mood etc.
4/10 It was okayish, not terribly exciting. Unlike the previous level you didn't have to make real decisions. You advance through your tube, you move in your castle. And that's it. No need to control the map or to try different attack routes. You just stay there. Let the hordes banzai charge until the main force is annihilated in a attrition-like war, move to the two bosses. The end. Unfortunately I can see no way to change that. Underground fights with elves in constricted areas are just somewhat boring. But it's not a bad scenario.
One problem is scouting ahead with a dust devil /desert star right right at the beginning as you might trigger the main event way to soon. Your allies get decimated and the castle occupied by both friendly and enemy AI units before you can get your pitty forces in place. This prevents you from recruiting AT ALL and puts you in a hopeless situation. The small entrance to the fortress, there could be a collapsable wall triggered by your hero, this way the problem wouldn't arise.

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Maiklas3000
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 5. A Subterranean Struggle

Post by Maiklas3000 » May 29th, 2014, 2:34 pm

1) Version, level, gold? 1.11.15, Nightmare, 619 starting gold.
2) Adequately difficult? Yes, perfect. 8 or 9/10. It seems the same as when I reviewed it previously. I don't mind the excessive gold here, because the player really does need to recruit like crazy.
3) Reloads? I lost three times (once due to time) and save-reloaded once.
4) Dialog? Very good.
5) Fun? Yes, this is a kick-ass scenario with high replayability.
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nuorc
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 5. A Subterranean Struggle

Post by nuorc » March 1st, 2015, 8:19 pm

1) What version and difficulty level did you play the scenario on?
1.12.1, Medium

2) Do you think the difficulty is adequate to the level?
Yes. Toughest part was fighting strong enemies on unfavorable terrain.

3) Was there any event that caused you to almost instantly loose, or made the scenario unplayable without reload?
I think I went back a turn two times because I missed a series of slowing attacks and the dwarfs killed liked six levels worth of my units.
I was tempted to go back to try to get a more favorable timing for the main event: it took a few turns until I could recruit and the trolls were badly owned by the dwarfs. Maybe the terrain leading towards the keep could be made flat.

4) Do you like the storyline and the dialogues?
Yes, it's fine. This episode also opened with a classic: four heroes and two redshirts, redshirts get eaten by insects. :lol:

5) Do you think the scenario was fun? Please write down some thoughts about gameplay, mood etc.
Yeah, it was ok. The combination of deadly dwarfs, bad terrain, chokeholds... was potentially frustrating and badly dependent on luck.

Another stranger mutters his last words and drops dead- with full health.

Shouldn't I be able to see info about all my allies?
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Elvish_King
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 5. A Subterranean Struggle

Post by Elvish_King » March 2nd, 2015, 3:00 pm

I think you only see this info if the leader of this team is not behind the fog.
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nikita1996
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 5. A Subterranean Struggle

Post by nikita1996 » August 16th, 2015, 3:07 pm

1) v1.12.4 difficulty: Desert Sentinel (Challenging)
2) The difficulty is adequate and even a little bit difficult. It's right to be the expert level. The most difficult thing is, your king must reach the keep and recurit fastly. A "burn" is going to happen.
3) Yes. When the first time that I played, I didn't fight very quickly. After the horrible "burn" happened, my castle was surrounded by the trolls, so I had to reload. Before the "burn", your troops must reach the south tunnel. It's much easier and safer to fight in the tunnel than fighting in the hall.
4) I love the dialoghes. But, it's too long. The important information should be showen in a more significant way.
5) It's fun. After winning, I have a great proudness for it's really a little bit hard.
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