Scenario Review: (UTBS) 6.2 In the Domain of the Dwarves

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mrtree
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Post by mrtree » July 12th, 2006, 3:02 am

When you say "Start the scernario again" Do you mean the entire "Under the Burning Suns" Campaign or just the "Domain of the Dwarves" map?

And I can just use the regular map editor to fix things right?

And where can I find the correct spelling for the thunderguard?

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Sly
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Post by Sly » July 12th, 2006, 8:05 am

mrtree wrote:When you say "Start the scernario again" Do you mean the entire "Under the Burning Suns" Campaign or just the "Domain of the Dwarves" map?
No just "in the Domain of the Dwarves" ;)
mrtree wrote:And I can just use the regular map editor to fix things right?

And where can I find the correct spelling for the thunderguard?
Dwarvish Thunderguard is the correct spelling, but as I recall, in the .cfg file there is a mispell of it (retry the scenario to get the error, and verify, the name should be mispelled)

Shakiko
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Post by Shakiko » July 12th, 2006, 9:52 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
normal, 1.17


(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
interesting, lots of small quests, but kinda easy to do - 3
The dwarf leader (and the two berserkers) were pretty hard to to w/o serious losses - 9


(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
pretty clear
just one question - whats the talk about the bat leader ? Once I killed the dwarf leader the scenario was over (?)


(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
The bombing of Zurg at the beginning was abit confusing. Other than that everything was clear.


(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Staying alive and healthy :lol:
I didn't recruit another healer except Zhur for this scenario as I was relying on all those loyal trolls - and it was pretty hard to heal fast enough and walk on w/o feeling to rest too much.

When I finished the scenario I knew i could have rested more though :oops:

Second major challengs were the berserkers - they even killed a fully healed lv2 troll benefitting from Leadership3 ....


(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
it was okay (compared to the other great scenarios of this campaign) - 5


(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Humm, its fun as it is - it might be one of the "weaker" ones in this campaign but it was alot more interesting and enjoyable for me than the majority of other campaign-maps I've played so far.


(8 ) How much gold did you have at the start of the scenario?
410

emdot
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bug in scenario

Post by emdot » September 10th, 2006, 10:00 pm

svn ver.: 13328 (in campaign catalog)
Graphics for rune and sarcophag in 6_2_Hunting_Dwarves scenario are missing.

Imp
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Post by Imp » January 8th, 2007, 1:53 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?

Challenging, 1.2

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

7. The water battle was really annoying. Otherwise it would be a 5.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Crystal.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

The side quest with the dwarf on the island was entertaining. The bats and him took my Stars out of the last fight, but they weren't necessary there.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

The water battle was annoying, having no movement, no flanking, low defence...

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

6. I quite enjoyed it apart from the water.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Less deep water in the water battle so at least my Stars can flank the enemy!

(8) How much gold did you have at the start of the scenario?

About 120.

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Buddy Jimm
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 6.2 In the Domain of the Dwarves

Post by Buddy Jimm » June 18th, 2007, 6:23 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?

Normal 1.2.4

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

5. I had actually bothered to level up the trolls since getting them(knowing full well I would eventually lose them, but eh), and they stood up okay against the otherwise difficult bats and dwarves.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear. No trouble.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Dialog concerning the wall is a bit confusing. It's not clear which wall he's referring too, and his instruction about how he will blast it next turn should probably go before you step on the triggering hex. I had to reload the start a few times just to get everyone properly positioned so as not to make the newly formed hole a turn-wasting clog.

That hex should probably have some identifying marker (the ones used in The South Guard are a good example).

Past that, no problems.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Nothing much, just getting through it like any other cave battle.

Getting Grog required save-load. He would always attack the dwarf on his turn, even when seriously wounded beforehand. Not a smart 1-on-1 strategy for a creature that regenerates, and often led to his death before I could even get over to help.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

5. Again, very decent for a cave battle, but not too much I remember about it.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Maybe add some more road around the lake. You'd still have to place guards in the water, but now you're not bored moving your troops around when the battle's over.

(8) How much gold did you have at the start of the scenario?

832

Jozrael
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Post by Jozrael » December 1st, 2007, 1:37 pm

1st campaign bug I encountered was here: that old hermit's WML must be broken, cuz I didn't get any amulet or anything for killing him.

As a sidenote: this level is farking ridiculous for the amount of villages you get. Its like...4. This is expecting you to be able to make it through this with an incredibly small army.

Granted, the first time through I had forgotten to keep my loyal trolls alive, second time through with them all max level it was a tad easier.

But still <_<.

The improvements to the campaign are amazing, good job.

miekka
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Post by miekka » January 5th, 2008, 12:25 pm

1. 1.27 easiest
2. 5. There really weren't that much of those dwarves.
3. Clear enough, find the dwarf leader and kill him.
4. OK, except for one funny mistake; when I saw the troll in the corner, he managed to kill that dwarf by himself and still said "I couldn't have made it without you." Well, mistakes like that can't sometimes be avoided... :)
5. None.
6. 6, a little easier for a change.
7. None.
8. 426.

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Mist
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 6.2 In the Domain of the Dwarves

Post by Mist » March 16th, 2008, 2:58 am

Please note new set of questions in the first post and use these for feedback from now on.
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Disorder.

GrouchyDan
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 6.2 In the Domain of the Dwarves

Post by GrouchyDan » August 20th, 2009, 5:24 am

1. Version 1.6.4; EASY.

2. The scenario is unpleasantly difficult; it's apparently designed to discourage play.

3. The trapped troll, Grog, incessantly kills himself; after navigating the lake, my forces arrive at a chokepoint, confronted by a swarm of level two dwarfs that chop everything to pieces. Usually, cannon fodder troops counter such situations, but it hardly works here. Trying to shepherd expendable units through the lake just leads to more losses in a situation where income is obviously designed to be hugely negative.

4. The dialogue in the campaign is verbose; the story's fine (very good, in fact), but because so many reloads are required, clicking past all the chatter becomes irritating--like everything else about this scenario.

5. This scenario is torture; ranks zero on a scale of 1 to 10 (with 1 being least fun possible). It seems to have been designed to be unpleasant and annoying.

shadowblack
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 6.2 In the Domain of the Dwarves

Post by shadowblack » August 27th, 2010, 5:32 pm

1) What version and difficulty level did you play the scenario on? Please do not submit feedback from pre 1.4.
1.8.4, Desert Sentinel (Challenging)

2) Do you think the difficulty is adequate to the level? If not describe the issue that made the scenario to easy/hard.
If you have enough flying units the difficulty is fine.

3) Was there any event that caused you to almost instantly loose, or made the scenario unplayable without reload?
Getting swarmed by bats and tentacles made it impossible to advance without sacrificing several leveled units. It was easier to go back a few turns and deal with the bats before triggering the tentacles.

4) Do you like the storyline and the dialogues? If not what part/character lags behind or what would you like changed?
Very good.

5) Do you think the scenario was fun? Please write down some thoughts about gameplay, mood etc.
For the most part it was fun, especially the sergeant, but the lake was just annoying – getting through shallow water with non-flyers is slow enough. Getting attacked by enemies I can’t even see in advance because for some mysterious reason my flying units can fly over deep water (but flying over bottomless chasms is fine) was just frustrating! At the same time there’s no special reward for killing the bats. So what’s the point of even having those bats (other than giving my units some free experience)? I mean, the tentacles slowed me down more than enough. Was it really necessary to slow me down even more? If the boss bat was guarding something of value things would be different…

I loved the Gollum-like dwarf and the bonus it got me in the end – Zhul could really use the extra HP.

Overall I find “In the tunnels of the trolls” more fun (and also a bit easier and faster to finish) than this scenario). This one was just too regular compared to the lava lake and the tactical challenge that offered me.


6) Do you think the scenario's WML is clear and commented well enough? If not which part would you like to see improved?
Documented well-enough.
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TheCripple
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 6.2 In the Domain of the Dwarves

Post by TheCripple » March 24th, 2011, 6:02 pm

Content Feedback wrote:1) What version and difficulty level did you play the scenario on? Please do not submit feedback from pre 1.4.
2) Do you think the difficulty is adequate to the level? If not describe the issue that made the scenario to easy/hard.
3) Was there any event that caused you to almost instantly loose, or made the scenario unplayable without reload?
4) Do you like the storyline and the dialogues? If not what part/character lags behind or what would you like changed?
5) Do you think the scenario was fun? Please write down some thoughts about gameplay, mood etc.
Optional
6) Do you think the scenario's WML is clear and commented well enough? If not which part would you like to see improved?
1) 1.9.4 on Easy.
2) I was very careful about troll maintinence and leveling in the prior level, so it was easy relative to many of the other levels. That said, with just elves it would have been exactly where it should have been.
3) No, though there were certain glitches. The dwarf hermit never actually dropped anything for one.
4) Its passable, and not overly long. There is a small problem with the dialog given to units at random, if a troll happens to speak them it breaks verisimilitude a bit. Having elf and troll variations of generic lines would fix that, though that may be difficult to implement.
5) Very much so. I had several small armies, the choke point management mechanics were a lot of fun, and I found even the tentacle and bat sections fun without being frustrating.

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Pewskeepski
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 6.2 In the Domain of the Dwarves

Post by Pewskeepski » March 30th, 2011, 7:06 pm

(1) Difficulty, version? Challenging, 1.9.4 (240 gold)
(2) How difficult? (1-10) 6: Chokepoints make it easy :)
(3) How clear? Very
(4) Dialog? Great (I thought of "Lord of the Rings" when I attacked the hermit :P )
(5) Challenges? None really
(6) How fun? (1-10) 5: Holding chokepoints isn't that fun
(7) Changes? I don't know :hmm:
(8) Reloads or restarts? Restarted when I figured out the tomb thing
(9) WML? Comments are good
(10) Replay? Attached
(11) Map? It's a bit mean to make a reward so far away and across so much water
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Maiklas3000
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 6.2 In the Domain of the Dwarves

Post by Maiklas3000 » July 24th, 2011, 7:58 am

1) Version and difficulty? 1.9.7, nightmare

2) Appropriately difficult? Yes, quite difficult.

3) Reloads? Yes, I lost in the battle of the bridge and once I ran out of time. I restarted from start each time.

4) Storyline and dialogue? Good, but in the dialog between scenarios, wasn't there a line about the mass of the rock overhead, and didn't we already hear that same line before? And I found the start confusing. The first time, I didn't understand what the troll was talking about with respect to blowing the wall. Perhaps the dialog there could be clarified.

5) Fun, gameplay, mood, etc.? This one requires a lot of patience, as there are two chokepoints, plus there are two more battles that will kill you if you rush them (the lake and the dwarf leader.) You get some sense of satisfaction when you're done. The time limit is just about right to let you proceed carefully, yet feel time pressure.

There is a bug in the first demolition man's routine. If you don't go down that tunnel, then you can kill the demolitions man before he blows the charges. If you later go down that tunnel, he blows the charges and you see him running away, even though he was dead before. You can see this in my replay. If you step on his hex from the other side, causing the dead guy to blow the wall, your unit will find itself in the wall(!)

A Tentacle of the Deep violated ZOC when it appeared in the midst of my formation; however, this one case I don't mind a creature spawning between my units, because it makes sense that it came from below. So that's fine.

Although the scenario as a whole is well designed, the rune amulet is not. It's just not likely that a player would find both it and the matching rune without reading the walkthrough. (I didn't until I read the walkthrough.) I understand that it's an Easter egg, but it still seems too hidden, especially given how nasty that lake is (with yet another tentacle trap over near Hermit Island, after the lake was declared clear), so players will be afraid to send a Shyde off alone. If you put a ledge leading around the lake to that passage, then for sure some players would find the purple rune, and then they have a fighting chance to figure it out. Finally, it doesn't make logical sense that every unit has the rune amulet once the hermit is killed. It would be really nice if you make an instance of that purple rune appear when the hermit dies, and then give it to whomever picks it up. Wesnoth isn't well designed for carrying objects, but I dunno, figure something out; maybe it could be a 0-0 weapon.

The Dust Devil talked on one play after finding the rune left by the hermit. Is that intended? You could change the line for him to have him say, "Ssss ss s ssss s ss ssss sss sssssss!" And have Zhul translate it, e.g., "Oh, wow, did everyone understand that? The hermit had a rune amulet! Maybe it is significant." Maybe you could do that in a general way, so that it works throughout the campaign and be worth doing. And while I'm thinking of it, the Dust Devil should be lawful. It's not that it obeys laws, but that dust devils are powered by rising heat thermals created by the sun. And his "oofs" of pain when getting hit are cute, but I think he should hiss.

* * *

Replay attached. I went Shyde heavy (Star, Shyde and a Druid to start), which helped a lot with the first battle, the battle of the bridge, the battle of the lake, and of course the rune Easter egg. The chokepoint after the lake had me stumped, as the AI refused to attack, and I was afraid to attack because there was a level 2 and level 3 thunderer, for a damage potential of 68 points, enough to kill anything but a healthy Nym or level 3 troll. So, I went slow and tried to wear down the enemy without losing any of my loyal or critical units. There I lost a couple of level 2 and 3 Hunters, and the Dust Devil was in jeopardy at one point, but somehow I pushed past the chokepoint. The battle against the Dwarf Lord leader is always tough, and he held up surrounded for a couple of turns, with victory coming only on the last possible turn.
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Jabie
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 6.2 In the Domain of the Dwarves

Post by Jabie » April 1st, 2012, 11:40 am

1. Version 1.10. Easiest level.

2. Far too hard, almost as bad as the previous one. I stated this in the last post but it's worth re-iterating. Your shooting for an RPG in this campaign. Leave onerous challenges to the high difficulty levels. Here are my suggestions:

Reveal the Eastern path at the start of the map. The player has just travelled down this route, so there's no point in shrouding it.

Battle 1: The Bridge. There's no room to manoeuvre before you get there. I ended up retreating down the tunnel and then taking on the Dwarves one on one. I very much doubt that this is the fight you intended. I suggest replacing the following hexes with "Cave" (18,31) (17,32) (16,32) (16,33) (17,34) This gives the player enough space to manoeuver and hold the bridge which is the fight you're aiming for.

At (22,26) place a barrel of dynamite / Black Powder. If the player ends their move they can destroy the wall at (22,30) In this fashion once the battle is won, the action keeps moving.

Battle 2: Grog.

I sent Elves this way and couldn't help Grog, so had to save reload til he won the fight. If you put the dead-end at (7,30) the player should be able to rescue Grog from the Vengeful Dwarf.

Connecting the Chasm (13,28) to form this dead end would give players the tactical option of sending a Sydhe around to help Grog / flank the dwarves on the bridge.

Battle 3: The Lake and the Bats.

I loved the idea, but hated the implementation. I got around this by flying my Sidhe to King Bat and killing him. The challenge would have been fine with Level 0 bats. With high level bats and no ability for the player to plan to avoid them, the player is screwed, as attested by most of the other posts in this thread. Leave the Level 2 bat as the king and only allow him to recruit Level 0 bats.

Add sandbars in the centre (even if you have to approach them from the Northern side) so that the player can kill off the shroud. Sand at 42,19 and 41, 20 would improve the aesthetics without making much overall difference to the map.

Battle 4: The Dwarf Chieftain

Lack of maneouver space on the shoreline is painful here. Replace (22,15) (20,15) and 21,16 with cave to allow the player a little more space to reogranise his units. consider adding a village at 21,16.

At (11,19) add another barrel of TNT to blast 12,19 and 12,20 out of the way. This means that any tail-end charlies can get in on the actions rather than languishing at the end of the map.

5. The enjoyment is seriously diminished by the challenge.

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