Scenario Review: (UTBS) 9. Blood is Thicker than Water

Feedback for the mainline campaign Under the Burning Suns.

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rubber.piggy
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Post by rubber.piggy » October 19th, 2006, 11:11 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
1.1.11 -> Normal

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7 -> strategically it was straightforward, but I cut it close time wise.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
very

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
getting from one side of the map and back again, over slow/poor terrain without having my lines broken.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
9.5

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I cannot think of any

(8) How much gold did you have at the start of the scenario?
~760

BUG: When one of my captain rebelled against me with Eloh support I was told I would not be able to recruit new unit, but I found I could when I acidentally pressed wron hot key. Later after defeating them I had two recruit options for each troop type. One cheapo option and one expensive one.
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Jozrael
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Post by Jozrael » November 30th, 2006, 3:45 am

Q: I can only find 4 Mermen, I'm missing at least the Enchantress...where is she?

grayshirtninja
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Post by grayshirtninja » December 16th, 2006, 4:46 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Easy, 1.1.13
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Usually it was pretty good, but there seemed to be a missing dialogue here and there
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
So far getting to the rebel island
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8

BUG: This is probably because of version 1.1.13, but when I kill Eloh and the long dialogue scene that follows ends, Zhul dies and I lose.
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Higher Game
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Post by Higher Game » January 9th, 2007, 2:50 pm

I'll be blunt: the minimum 100 gold to start just isn't enough, since the previous stage is such a huge drain. Please increase the amount of gold to start out.

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Buddy Jimm
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 9. Blood is Thicker than Water

Post by Buddy Jimm » June 18th, 2007, 7:56 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?

"Normal", 1.2.4

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

7. Even after getting the gist of the map it took a lot of good planning to see the whole thing through. One hex away from saving the last merman too.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Good and mostly clear (though the dialog support certainly helps). Did I need to kill the last leader though? The objective was to capture all four ships, but I was confused about the lack of response -- no one made a peep until I had tried placing a unit on each of them.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

A lot of good stuff came out of this one. Most of my thoughts have already been said.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Quite a sobering thing, defeating a divine avatar and winning back your people, then discovering your last objective is all the way across the map and you're running short on turns. Then again, I had more than enough to kill the leader, so the getting-a-move-on must not have been too bad.

The humans also come on really strong at the beginning. Again, not insurmountable, but zounds! No chance of getting through unless I left a detachment on the sands. And the last time I tried to get through UtBS, I don't think I had the gold to make that happen.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

9. The terrain variety makes for an excellent game.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Nothing much to suggest here, this is good.

(8) How much gold did you have at the start of the scenario?

609

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Mist
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 9. Blood is Thicker than Water

Post by Mist » March 16th, 2008, 3:08 am

Please note new set of questions in the first post and use these for feedback from now on.
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shadowblack
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 9. Blood is Thicker than Water

Post by shadowblack » August 28th, 2010, 7:00 pm

1) What version and difficulty level did you play the scenario on? Please do not submit feedback from pre 1.4.
1.8.4, Desert Sentinel (Challenging)

2) Do you think the difficulty is adequate to the level? If not describe the issue that made the scenario to easy/hard.
Depends entirely on the troops you will recall at start, but overall difficulty seemed fine.

3) Was there any event that caused you to almost instantly loose, or made the scenario unplayable without reload?
No, to my joy.

4) Do you like the storyline and the dialogues? If not what part/character lags behind or what would you like changed?
Yes, very good, I love it.

5) Do you think the scenario was fun? Please write down some thoughts about gameplay, mood etc.
This scenario was more like three scenarios in one:
1) First was freeing the mermen – I recalled all 4 of my Stars, as well as some level 1s and 2s (at this point in the campaign recalling level 1s with 0 exp is cheaper than recruiting new units). The Shock Troopers were quite annoying at day, as even when slowed they still cause some serious damage. But overall this part was not very hard, just slow-going
2) Second was Eloh and the rebellion – the whole “you can only recall, but you can’t recruit new units” was kinda pointless since by the time I freed the Enchantress I was already in negative gold, and even if I had any gold recalling units was cheaper. This part was the shortest and easiest despite the (temporary) loss of Zhul
3) Third part was getting the ships – this part was the only real challenge because my initial engagement with the enemy was at night, and with a part of Necromancers. Again Slow saved the day (or the night, in this case). Once the initial enemy wave had been annihilated the rest was easy. Crossing to the isle was a bit slow, but not too much

Other: The crabs turning out to be on their own side and fighting with the rebel elves was a nice surprise.

Overall the scenario was fun even though there was nothing really special about it.


6) Do you think the scenario's WML is clear and commented well enough? If not which part would you like to see improved?
Well-documented.
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Pewskeepski
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 9. Blood is Thicker than Water

Post by Pewskeepski » April 2nd, 2011, 11:17 pm

(1) Difficulty, version? Challenging, 1.9.5 (319 gold)
(2) How difficult? (1-10) 7: Not too hard once you know where everything is
(3) How clear? Very
(4) Dialog? Great, this is getting very interesting :)
(5) Challenges? Taking down the level 3 Necromancers and leveling up new units
(6) How fun? (1-10) 8
(7) Changes? Maybe move the Human's lagoon closer to where Eloh's clone appears. It was kinda annoying to have to go all the way over to the other side of the map :hmm:
(8) Reloads or restarts? Yep, I recruited too many level 1's and got pawned
(9) WML? Long and well commented. (P.S I noticed that "Out of the frying pan" is the biggest scenario in all the mainline campaigns :geek: )
(10) Replay? Attached: My strategy was to split my forces up and attack the humans in two sections. But that proved difficult with only one healer so I had to get a druid ASAP. When Eloh's impostor came, I thought I was suppose to look for forded water, but I quickly caught on that I had to move through the shallow sections. I also didn't know what the mountain (Human's lagoon) was so I sent a merman over to investigate.
(11) Map? I think it's suppose to resemble something, but I can only make out a heart on the right :o
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Maiklas3000
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 9. Blood is Thicker than Water

Post by Maiklas3000 » July 26th, 2011, 11:07 pm

1) Version and difficulty? 1.9.7, nightmare
2) Appropriately difficult? On the easy side, but too long to make tough.
3) Reloads? None.
4) Storyline and dialogues? Top notch.
5) Fun, gameplay, mood, etc. An interesting scenario, quite a "fog of war" experience.

Replay comes up corrupt, so not attached.

Phase 1: I went north pretty fast and killed the humans as they splashed into the water, and rescued all the Mermen except the Enchantress.

Phase 2: I brushed aside the crabs, then waited just offshore for the Elves to abandon their 60% defense beaches in favor of 20% defense water. In that skirmish, my Dust Devil bit the dust, attacked by two water-wading Heroes at daytime. It was a careless mistake, though I might have been hard pressed to find another unit to sacrifice in its place. I had kept the loyal Dust Devil alive up to this point by rarely letting it be attacked by more than one enemy unit at once. Then my loyal Golum started to get twitchy. In response, I gave him frontline duty for the first time, and the enemy killed him. (I didn't read the walkthrough beforehand, but Kromph's hint was clear enough.) The rest of that battle was anticlimatic, but I guess it's sort of supposed to be, since this is only an avatar of the "god".

Phase 3: After the Elves and the "god" avatar were dispatched, I found myself surprised by another objective. My troops were not well positioned, so it was a race. The undead took the little island off their coast, and I took the two adjacent islands, using the little castle to recruit two units per turn. The deep water limits the conflict area to not much more than 1 hex versus 1 hex on each of the two bridges. I was worried that my forces might get stalemated here, especially as loyalists poured in at daytime to reinforce the undead, but, after an initial pause, progress was rapid. Even so, I was worried about the turn limit, so I overrecruited. Taking the big island was a piece of cake, so much so that I'd recommend the scenario designer to post guards in little one hex fortress hexes at the edge of the island. Despite the ease of taking the island, I wasn't able to kill the undead boss or his last recruit, a Dragoon. I decided to end the game by boarding the ships rather than to continue fighting the boss and risk losing a unit. I finished 2 turns early and have a bonus of something like 56 gold for the next scenario. I hope that's enough.

podbelski
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 9. Blood is Thicker than Water

Post by podbelski » August 7th, 2011, 9:15 pm

1) What version and difficulty level did you play the scenario on?
1.9.6, top difficulty, reloaded several times to luck out Eloh's assasination

2) Do you think the difficulty is adequate to the level?
7/10, on the easier side. Really nothing here similar to earlier toughest maps, even enemy leaders stand in passive mode. I mostly like it as is, it's not I want this map tougher, better make few previous a bit easier, but they still should be more challenging than this scenario.

Finished in turn 41/50.
6 losses, 64 kills.

5) Do you think the scenario was fun?
9/10

Phase 1.
I recalled almost two keeps, it seems Champions is the best choice for this campaign. Hunters are good as a small support addition, marksmen mostly suck, rangers deal great backstab damage but usually expose themself too much doing it, and marshalls can't provide leadership to lvl3 units when the campaign built in a way it's easier to maintain lvl3 army rather than afford to lose veterans and grow up expensive recruits... Back to track, I crushed any resistance and rescued all 5 mermen, in turn 14. Great.

Phase 2.
I sent 4 mermen to kill Eloh and her elven minion, it seemed like the best decision. Since I don't set up the "no reloads" goal anymore, I've just save-loaded several times to assasinate Eloh w/o giving her a chance to kill any of my mermen. It's very good storyline, but can't say the battle enjoyed me much.

Phase 3.
Five lvl3 necromancers in a main attack wave were the biggest challenge of this map, had to accept inevitable losses... The island itself was a sweet piece of experience. I think this is the only spot that might be worth strengtheneing. As Maiklas said, a couple of strong stationary guards (prob necromancers) are good. Also, the leaders should attack when you come close enough, it looks unnatural as is, and way too easy.
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taptap
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 9. Blood is Thicker than Water

Post by taptap » October 15th, 2011, 4:55 pm

1) What version and difficulty level did you play the scenario on? Please do not submit feedback from pre 1.4.

Sentinel (Challenging), 1.9.9

2) Do you think the difficulty is adequate to the level? If not describe the issue that made the scenario to easy/hard.

Yes. (Though you really need to rescue most or even all merfolk to handle the rebellion later on.)

3) Was there any event that caused you to almost instantly loose, or made the scenario unplayable without reload?

I reloaded some turns back when I couldn't save the last captive by one hex.

4) Do you like the storyline and the dialogues? If not what part/character lags behind or what would you like changed?

Yes.

5) Do you think the scenario was fun? Please write down some thoughts about gameplay, mood etc.

Yes, very much. Knowledge as always in this campaign is a huge help because the changes are so utterly unpredictable.

General Comment

I don't understand the walkthrough. People who recruit "3 keeps" worth of troops while keeping money are ridiculously wealthy. I had 341 gold at start and recalled only three level 3 (shyde, prowler, avenger) from a total of 2 keeps most recalled level 1-2 some with experience leaving me with an initial negative income of about 10 and 85 gold left. It is crucial to get the mermen in time which together form a force strong enough to take out the fake Eloh and the rebel leader - in fact this should be the default way as it is not nice to kill your fellow elves. If one rushes all troops back and forth and recruits heavily I don't know how to have enough money for the last recruiting scenario.

+

It is no punishment at all to be not able to recruit in phase 2. Recalling is cheaper anyway so deep in the campaign and it gives you the traits you need most.
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flammstrudel
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 9. Blood is Thicker than Water

Post by flammstrudel » April 20th, 2013, 3:34 pm

1) What version and difficulty level did you play the scenario on?
1.10.2 medium

2) Do you think the difficulty is adequate to the level? If not describe the issue that made the scenario to easy/hard.
Surprisingly easy. The previous level was quite challenging, the next one even more so. About 4/10

3) Was there any event that caused you to almost instantly loose, or made the scenario unplayable without reload?
Nope.

4) Do you like the storyline and the dialogues? If not what part/character lags behind or what would you like changed?
Nothing to complain about.

5) Do you think the scenario was fun? Please write down some thoughts about gameplay, mood etc.
7/10 The scenario was somewhat anticlimactic. The difficulty for the conquest of the islands and the rescue of the mermans (couldn't actually find the last enchantress) was adequate and enjoyable. Killing the eloh's avatar and her minions wasn't very hard since she didn't recruit many units (and only tier 2s). I was surprised by the emergence of the new foe in the west and rallied all my troops back for a second time, the showdown itself was pretty unexciting though. All you need to do is camp hard and the (rather weak) opponent will happily walk into the meat/ bone grinder. Conquering the ships is laughably easy. Some units guarding would have been nice. In the end I was a little bit bored. First half of the scenario is just fine, the second needs a little bit more action.

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Maiklas3000
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 9. Blood is Thicker than Water

Post by Maiklas3000 » June 4th, 2014, 9:50 am

1) Version, difficulty, gold? 1.11.15, nightmare, 214 starting gold.
2) Appropriately difficult? Yes. I lost a couple of times, then I lost due to time, by about one turn, and then I won on turn 42/50, so I think the turns are a good number. Two Necromancers on the little island gave me all kinds of problems, especially when they were smart enough to retreat to heal by day and let their human allies take the front line. I lost my loyal Dust Devil, who was trying to save my non-loyal Champion who had the fire sword. I see you added two guards on the final island, in response to previous feedback. Well done. I would suggest turning the Shocktrooper into another Javelineer, so that the player can't just range attack it to death.
3) Reloads? I think I save-reloaded when I realized that the elf leader needed to be killed and wasn't going to revert to my side.
4) Dialog? Very good. I was able to save 4 out of the 5 mermen, plus my starting merman, but the dialog when the last caged merman was killed used the plural, as if there were multiple remaining caged merman. A subtle thing, I know.
5) Fun? Yes, it's a fine scenario.
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nikita1996
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 9. Blood is Thicker than Water

Post by nikita1996 » August 16th, 2015, 4:25 pm

1) v1.12.4 difficulty: Desert Sentinel (Challenging)
2) Yes. I think it's medium and a little bit too difficult. The most important thing is, turns may run out before you finish the scenario. I used all 54 turns up in this scenario. I think 60 turns at maximum may be better. Also, this map is too large. You should defeat human, eloh and undead in one scenario. How about dividing this scenario into two scenarios and two maps?
3) I used all my turns. Nearly ran out of the turns! I didn't reload.
4) The story is quite good. Killing Eloh is something doubtful and unbelievable. Must the Quenoth elves do this?
5) Quite fun. But, finishing this scenario needs at least 2 hours. I used nearly 3 hours. It's too long. Maybe dividing into two scenarios can be better.
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Inky
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Re: Scenario Review: (UTBS) 9. Blood is Thicker than Water

Post by Inky » February 26th, 2016, 4:56 am

1) Level, version, gold? 1.12.5 nightmare, 299 starting gold
2) Adequately difficult? 7/10, not difficult but lots of objective changes. This was my second time playing the campaign though so I basically knew where to go.
3) Reloads? No restarts/reloads
4) Dialog? -
5) Fun? Not very, you have to waste a ton of turns going from one end of the map to the other wading through water a couple hexes at a time. I don't see the point of it either - I wish the map were redesigned so the final objective in the northwest was in the northeast instead so you don't have to backtrack. Also it would be very nice to have fog and not shroud, as it's really hard to tell where to go.

It's very important not to overrecruit!! I recalled 2 keeps including some level 1s and ended up way negative with only 65 gold carryover making the next scenario a nightmare. So one and a half keeps of mostly level 1s and 2s is probably better.

I managed to rescue all the mermen...and then promptly got two of them killed. This ended up being pretty inconvenient in the next scenario.
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