Wesnoth 1.13.6

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Re: Wesnoth 1.13.6

Postby Inky » November 13th, 2016, 6:41 am

Okay, I'll file reports for the two you said were new.
A couple other comments:

-The Commands pages under Help still use : instead of ;

-The Hotkeys section in Preferences is kind of inconvenient - if for example I am only interested in Unit Commands I have to click and deselect every single other category. I think it would be better if clicking on a category would only show hotkeys from that category, or if a Toggle All button was added.
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Re: Wesnoth 1.13.6

Postby nuorc » November 13th, 2016, 3:58 pm

ancestral wrote:But he or she is saying Ctrl-Q, which leads me to believe he or she is not using a Mac.
Right, I (♂) am on PC.

Celtic_Minstrel wrote:in Wesnoth, the default meaning is currently "quit to titlescreen". You could argue that should be changed, of course. In the editor in particular it would make more sense for it to mean "close map"... but if you bound it to "close map" then it would no longer exit the active game.
As far as I can tell ctrl+q quits to the title-screen from the game and the editor in 1.13.6. Since ctrl+o means something different in the editor than in the other parts of bfw, I don't think binding ctrl+q to 'close map' in the editor would affect anything else.

Moreover, ctrl+q currently quits from the title-screen to the desktop in 1.12.x, and it has ~always been that way. So I really don't know why it's changed in 1.13. If possible, I'd very much like ctrl+q to be brought back to the title-screen. :)
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Re: Wesnoth 1.13.6

Postby Celtic_Minstrel » November 13th, 2016, 5:41 pm

Help is likely to undergo major revision soon anyway, as it's converted to the new GUI system. The commands page is probably not the only one in need of an update.

For hotkeys prefs, you make a good point. That shouldn't be hard to do, either.


nuorc: My point was that the issue you brought up might be partly because of the way hotkeys differ between Mac and other platforms. That said... I think it might not be hard to make Ctrl+Q work from the titlescreen, even though that'd also make Cmd+W do the same on Mac (or, it could be enabled only on non-Mac, though I'm not sure I like that idea).
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Re: Wesnoth 1.13.6

Postby tr0ll » November 14th, 2016, 3:46 am

Seeing the following in stderr when i connect to the Add-ons dialog (i am aware options and description buttons lock the ui):
20161113 22:32:22 error addons-client: add-on 'Water_Era' has an icon which cannot be found: 'projectiles/merman.png'
20161113 22:32:22 error display: ~BLIT(): image not found: 'hits/blade-3.png'

Where is the best place to report those?
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Re: Wesnoth 1.13.6

Postby vultraz » November 14th, 2016, 4:13 am

That's the fault of the addon authors, not us.
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Re: Wesnoth 1.13.6

Postby Pentarctagon » November 14th, 2016, 4:30 am

To elaborate a bit: The add-on is trying to use a non-mainline image as its icon, most likely an image which exists within the add-on itself. However, since you haven't downloaded the add-on, you don't have the image, so you get the error saying "image not found".
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Re: Wesnoth 1.13.6

Postby pyndragon » November 14th, 2016, 4:47 am

tr0ll wrote:Seeing the following in stderr when i connect to the Add-ons dialog (i am aware options and description buttons lock the ui):
20161113 22:32:22 error addons-client: add-on 'Water_Era' has an icon which cannot be found: 'projectiles/merman.png'
20161113 22:32:22 error display: ~BLIT(): image not found: 'hits/blade-3.png'

Where is the best place to report those?


I'd suggest directly contacting the author.
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Re: Wesnoth 1.13.6

Postby beetlenaut » November 14th, 2016, 7:48 am

Keyboard handling changed a while back. If you have a QWERTY layout, you probably didn't notice, but for any other layout, all the default preferences got changed. The default command for "undo" used to be "U", but now the default command is whatever key is in the seventh position on the top row. That might be labeled "U", but in my case, it's labeled "G". So, in 1.13, the default key for "undo" is set to "G". I had to reset all the hotkeys I use when I started using 1.13, and again after I had to delete my preferences file.

This changed a while ago, and I keep expecting it to be fixed, but it still isn't. Is that because it's considered a feature instead of a bug, or because nobody has complained yet?
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Re: Wesnoth 1.13.6

Postby Ravana » November 14th, 2016, 9:57 am

I believe it is considered a feature. I will be interested to see how players manage with this in 1.14..
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Re: Wesnoth 1.13.6

Postby gfgtdf » November 14th, 2016, 10:59 am

It was explicitly changed to the new behaviour, see this pr https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/466

I personally also was in doubt of this change but it also has advantages.
For example in the old hotke ssystem to get : for commandmode in german layout ou needede to press shift+. while it not just needs one keystroke just like in engish layout.
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Re: Wesnoth 1.13.6

Postby pyndragon » November 14th, 2016, 3:07 pm

beetlenaut wrote:Keyboard handling changed a while back. If you have a QWERTY layout, you probably didn't notice, but for any other layout, all the default preferences got changed. The default command for "undo" used to be "U", but now the default command is whatever key is in the seventh position on the top row. That might be labeled "U", but in my case, it's labeled "G". So, in 1.13, the default key for "undo" is set to "G". I had to reset all the hotkeys I use when I started using 1.13, and again after I had to delete my preferences file.

This changed a while ago, and I keep expecting it to be fixed, but it still isn't. Is that because it's considered a feature instead of a bug, or because nobody has complained yet?


Imagine my struggles as a Dvorak user until I figured out what had changed... However I then remembered work on changing the SDL key identification logic and just shrugged and went on with life.
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Re: Wesnoth 1.13.6

Postby Celtic_Minstrel » November 14th, 2016, 6:06 pm

Although it may sort of be a feature, it doesn't seem good that the default hotkeys don't reflect their meaning on non-QWERTY layouts.
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Re: Wesnoth 1.13.6

Postby gfgtdf » November 14th, 2016, 6:51 pm

But also note that in other languages the action words (like 'redo', 'next unit', 'load' etc) also change so the hotkeys doesn't really reflect their meaning there anyways.

The only disadvantage i see in the new hotkey system is that it might be harder to explain people how to do/reproduce things if thier hotkeys use differnt latters. (as in 'maybe this happens to you because you have planning mode active, try deactivate it by pressing p')
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Re: Wesnoth 1.13.6

Postby beetlenaut » November 14th, 2016, 9:09 pm

Ravana wrote:I believe it is considered a feature. I will be interested to see how players manage with this in 1.14.
A lot of people will have to spend half an hour remapping their hotkeys before they play. (Because remapping your brain takes even longer.) That seems like a pretty big disadvantage! Old players in this situation will be annoyed, and even new players will probably remap their keys when they find that, for example, "O" means "save". Even if they speak a different language, they will be used to using different keys for other originally-English games.

Defaulting everybody to one layout is the same kind of wrong-headed, majority-rules thinking that leads big games to release just for MSWindows or just in English. Wesnoth is not like that--it works on any system and in two dozen languages. Or, at least, it wasn't like that. If you are going to insist on using scancodes, you should also include a way to change layouts and automatically adjust all the (mnemonic) keys. (It shouldn't be too difficult to find the maps, so the hardest part would probably be adding a dropdown list.)
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Re: Wesnoth 1.13.6

Postby Celtic_Minstrel » November 15th, 2016, 7:23 pm

gfgtdf wrote:But also note that in other languages the action words (like 'redo', 'next unit', 'load' etc) also change so the hotkeys doesn't really reflect their meaning there anyways.

It's still a problem for English DVORAK users though. In fact it could be a problem for UK users as well to some extent, since they use a different keyboard layout than the US. I'm not sure about other English-speaking countries, but it wouldn't surprise me if the UK isn't alone among them in having a non-US layout. (Canada general uses US layout in my experience; I've seen CA layouts in OS settings and stuff, but I've never seen matching physical keyboards.)

Anyway, I think this is definitely a problem that should be somehow resolved before 1.14. It would be totally possible to automatically detect your system's language and keyboard layout, and adjust the keys accordingly, for example. I'm not sure if that's quite the right direction to take, though. Offering several presets instead of a single default mapping could be another option.
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