Wesnoth 1.11.17 (1.12 Release Candidate 1)

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DonBordello
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Re: Wesnoth 1.11.17 (1.12 Release Candidate 1)

Post by DonBordello »

I hereby request a balance change. The Dwarvish Lord (level 3) had his ranged attack count reduced, from 2 to 1 (not in this release).

I already asked then why the change was made, as i found it unjustified, and got an answer by the one who proposed the change. The short version is: The dwarfish lord was overpowered in every way; movement, costs to make, attack power). So i set out to test this thorougly. I would like to keep this relatively short.

And now after lots of playing with premade setups and number comparison with different units. Mostly comparing it to other level 3 units i must still say the change weakens him too much. His attack of 12-1 now is an even weaker version of the hit-or-miss level 1 dwarven thunderer.

So what made him that strong?
Costs. I can't really say he's cheaper than other level 3 units. In a normal game you will rarely even get those and you certainly can't recruit them. So, obviously you get him through level ups. Compared to others he needs relatively low xp to get from lvl 2 to 3. Still, there are otherd which need less.
Mobility. Yes he is quite mobile, but he is no match to a draken for example. Drake with their insane health, movement points and attack power outrun him already on lvl 1 (with their only drawback being their costs).
Attack power. He does a lot of damage but has few hits. His first melee attack of 15-3 is already matched by a lvl 2 undead "unheilsbringer" (cant recall the english name) which has 12-5. His second attack of 23-2 is matched by lvl 3 trees which also have advantages like a lot of health, different resistances and regeneration. So whats his advantage? His advantage is his, also strong, ranged attack of 12-2. Which of course is outwitted by most ranged specialized units by far. 12-2 is not much for a lvl3. 12-1 is nothing.

So. He is matched and outperformed by many units. Melee specialized ones like trees match him in attack power, have more health, defense and other advantages. As well as undead ones. Most of the other units do a similar amount of damage and have even more hits. He is a level 3 unit which takes long and good care to get and should be as strong as the other lvl 3s. But by weakening his ranged attack (which is his advantage and what made him a sort of generalist being good in every aspect, but not excellent like all the focused ones) he loses that thing which made him feasible. He of course is to compare to the other lvl3 units and not to lvl1 units which are no match.

So i request to reconsider his power and undo the change for the next RC and hopefully stable version.
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tekelili
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Joined: August 19th, 2009, 9:28 pm

Re: Wesnoth 1.11.17 (1.12 Release Candidate 1)

Post by tekelili »

@DonBordello: Your analysis mostly skips all the great advantages of Darvish Lord.
- Incredible defense: How many units can get 70 defense? does any unit can get more than that value?
- Incredible resistances: Their minimal resistance is 10. What unit can match that besides guardsman? I dont care how much pierce resistence a wose has if just melt verus any drake.
- Dual damage type: This increases Darvish Lord melee damage output a lot, very few units can destroy skeletons so easy.
Be aware English is not my first language and I could have explained bad myself using wrong or just invented words.
World Conquest II
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Iris
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Re: Wesnoth 1.11.17 (1.12 Release Candidate 1)

Post by Iris »

DonBordello wrote:So i request to reconsider his power and undo the change for the next RC and hopefully stable version.
Changes like this that break MP/replay compatibility between clients are no longer allowed during the RC phase, and are obviously not allowed for stable versions either.
Author of the unofficial UtBS sequels Invasion from the Unknown and After the Storm (now available for Wesnoth 1.14.x and 1.15.4+).
Jozrael
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Joined: June 2nd, 2006, 1:39 pm
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Re: Wesnoth 1.11.17 (1.12 Release Candidate 1)

Post by Jozrael »

Submitted https://gna.org/bugs/?func=detailitem&item_id=22837 regarding Illumination circles not drawing.
fabi
Inactive Developer
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Re: Wesnoth 1.11.17 (1.12 Release Candidate 1)

Post by fabi »

Jozrael wrote:Submitted https://gna.org/bugs/?func=detailitem&item_id=22837 regarding Illumination circles not drawing.
Both One units you mentioned, the mage of light and the siren does not have any illumination related abilities.

The mage of light seems to work.

edit: Confused by unit names myself
Jozrael
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Re: Wesnoth 1.11.17 (1.12 Release Candidate 1)

Post by Jozrael »

I'm a derp. Had turned off haloing effects and not reenabled it. Thanks, sorry for the derp.
Ballador
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Joined: August 5th, 2011, 6:36 pm

Re: Wesnoth 1.11.17 (1.12 Release Candidate 1)

Post by Ballador »

I just wanna say I can't wait till 1.12 release!
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FuryouMiko
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Joined: October 23rd, 2014, 1:55 pm

Re: Wesnoth 1.11.17 (1.12 Release Candidate 1)

Post by FuryouMiko »

Just started this up and noticed that when I enter Planning mode, the 'planning mode activated' and 'press p to exit' messages are overlayed atop one another at all tested resolutions, making them impossible to read.
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Iris
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Re: Wesnoth 1.11.17 (1.12 Release Candidate 1)

Post by Iris »

FuryouMiko wrote:Just started this up and noticed that when I enter Planning mode, the 'planning mode activated' and 'press p to exit' messages are overlayed atop one another at all tested resolutions, making them impossible to read.
A fix for this was committed to our repository just a few days ago and it’ll be in version 1.11.18. Thanks for the report! (Also to the original reporter here.)
Author of the unofficial UtBS sequels Invasion from the Unknown and After the Storm (now available for Wesnoth 1.14.x and 1.15.4+).
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tekelili
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Re: Wesnoth 1.11.17 (1.12 Release Candidate 1)

Post by tekelili »

Is there a thread recomended to give feedback about Khalifate? In my search all thread looked very old and I felt unsure if I should unbury one of them?
Be aware English is not my first language and I could have explained bad myself using wrong or just invented words.
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Quetzalcoatl
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Re: Wesnoth 1.11.17 (1.12 Release Candidate 1)

Post by Quetzalcoatl »

Yeah not that I have much to say but reading some up-to-date discussion about this faction would be interesting ;). Compiled beta today found bold guys in :P.
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
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