Split off the music from the wesnoth .rpm/.deb in linux?

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Chris NS
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Split off the music from the wesnoth .rpm/.deb in linux?

Post by Chris NS » April 16th, 2008, 5:13 pm

This is a suggestion for binary compilers and not the Wesnoth team itself, but this seems the best place to say this.

One side-effect of including all the new music is that the download size of Wesnoth has increased a lot. I know that not many people are interested in downloading Wesnoth without the music, so I don't want to re-open this, but one annoying side-effect is that whenever you download an update you've got to download the music all over again, which, AFAIK, doesn't normally change between stable versions. I know there's various tricks available with Xdelta, but the least fiddly thing is to manage downloads through yum/apt-based programs.

Would it make make sense to split rpms and debs for Linux builds into wesnoth and wesnoth-music? That way, you can download updates to the wesnoth rpm/deb every time a new stable build comes out, but wesnoth-music can remain unchanged unless the music is updated for any reason?

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Re: Split off the music from the wesnoth .rpm/.deb in linux?

Post by AI » April 16th, 2008, 6:15 pm

Already works that way in ubuntu:

Code: Select all

$ aptitude search wesnoth
i   wesnoth                                                                          - fantasy turn-based strategy game
i   wesnoth-all                                                                      - fantasy turn-based strategy game - complete suite
i A wesnoth-aoi                                                                      - An Orcish Incursion official campaign for Wesnoth
i A wesnoth-data                                                                     - data files for Wesnoth
i A wesnoth-did                                                                      - Descent into Darkness official campaign for Wesnoth
i A wesnoth-editor                                                                   - map editor for Wesnoth
i A wesnoth-ei                                                                       - Eastern Invasion official campaign for Wesnoth
i A wesnoth-httt                                                                     - Heir to the Throne official campaign for Wesnoth
i A wesnoth-l                                                                        - Liberty official campaign for Wesnoth
i A wesnoth-music                                                                    - music files for Wesnoth
i A wesnoth-nr                                                                       - Northern Rebirth official campaign for Wesnoth
p   wesnoth-server                                                                   - multiplayer network server for Wesnoth
i A wesnoth-sof                                                                      - Sceptre of Fire official campaign for Wesnoth
i A wesnoth-sotbe                                                                    - Son of the Black Eye official campaign for Wesnoth
i A wesnoth-thot                                                                     - The Hammer of Thursagan official campaign for Wesnoth
i A wesnoth-trow                                                                     - The Rise of Wesnoth official campaign for Wesnoth
i A wesnoth-tsg                                                                      - The South Guard official campaign for Wesnoth
i A wesnoth-ttb                                                                      - A Tale of Two Brothers official campaign for Wesnoth
i A wesnoth-utbs                                                                     - Under the Burning Suns official campaign for Wesnoth

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Re: Split off the music from the wesnoth .rpm/.deb in linux?

Post by MadOssor » April 17th, 2008, 4:01 am

> Would it make make sense to split rpms and debs for Linux builds into wesnoth and
> wesnoth-music? That way, you can download updates to the wesnoth rpm/deb every
> time a new stable build comes out, but wesnoth-music can remain unchanged unless the
> music is updated for any reason?

Of course that would make sense, but at least from a RPM point of view I see this a bit problematic. Sure a wesnoth binary rpm can require a meta package "wesnoth-music". To allow the user to not update the music if nothing has changed, I would have to make the wesnoth-music dependency indepentend from the current wesnoth version. How can I guarantee (as a packager) that my users always have a working wesnoth-music installation? What happens when wesnoth-music becomes incompatible with a new wesnoth binary rpm for whatever reason? Yes, you can say I as a packager would have to care and enforce an update. But that's error prone to me, too easily I oversee a change made by the devs, and I also think about splitted campaign packages at this moment. Additionally, if any bug happens because parts of the wesnoth suite are not update to the current version, I have less chance to see what's wrong because I can only test things with the whole new suit.

I still tend to an xdelta approach.

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Re: Split off the music from the wesnoth .rpm/.deb in linux?

Post by torangan » April 17th, 2008, 4:19 pm

For 1.4 you can assume the music selection to stay stable. If we added new tracks we'd create an incompability in the 1.4.x line.
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Re: Split off the music from the wesnoth .rpm/.deb in linux?

Post by ivanovic » April 17th, 2008, 8:24 pm

From todays IRC:

Code: Select all

[22:17:46] <Rhonda> Ivanovic: Can you reply that it _is_ split in Debian and is only a recommends so they can easily purge it (or not get it installed in the first place).
So basically what you want is already possible with Debian (and its derivates). Sure, not all distributions use the same package manager and thus work the same way, but this is just the way it is...

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Re: Split off the music from the wesnoth .rpm/.deb in linux?

Post by Rhonda » April 17th, 2008, 9:09 pm

Chris NS wrote:This is a suggestion for binary compilers and not the Wesnoth team itself, but this seems the best place to say this.

One side-effect of including all the new music is that the download size of Wesnoth has increased a lot. I know that not many people are interested in downloading Wesnoth without the music, so I don't want to re-open this, but one annoying side-effect is that whenever you download an update you've got to download the music all over again, which, AFAIK, doesn't normally change between stable versions. I know there's various tricks available with Xdelta, but the least fiddly thing is to manage downloads through yum/apt-based programs.

Would it make make sense to split rpms and debs for Linux builds into wesnoth and wesnoth-music? That way, you can download updates to the wesnoth rpm/deb every time a new stable build comes out, but wesnoth-music can remain unchanged unless the music is updated for any reason?
There is one major problem here: An "updated" music package is unavoidable due to the way wesnoth is distributed. The music is included with the sources as a whole and when one produces an updated package for wesnoth there is absolutely no way to not also produce a "new" music package because it has to be built from the same source package.

Said that, Debian (and its derivates) already do that for a loooong time. wesnoth-music is a seperate package there, and there are two ways to appoach your "problem": For one, it's not absolutely required to install the music package, you can delete it if you like. As second, the dependencies don't have a version attached to it. So you are not required to also download the music again, you can keep your old music package. Now how cool is that, your wish already works for ages. :P
Like said above, it's just not avoidable to produce a new wesnoth-music package, sorry. But, as an added benefit, you also have all the campaigns in their own packages. That means you can even decide wether you want to install all, some or none of them.

Don't know about RPM based systems though. And don't even know if those people read in here (not even I do, have to thank Ivanovic for yet again handing over forum links to me. I wouldn't know how much I would have to spend to stumble upon them myself. Thanks, buddy! *hugs*)

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Re: Split off the music from the wesnoth .rpm/.deb in linux?

Post by torangan » April 17th, 2008, 10:08 pm

And actually this question makes more sense in some forum of your distribution or even as a feature request in their bug tracker.
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Translators for all languages required: contact me. No geek skills required!

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Re: Split off the music from the wesnoth .rpm/.deb in linux?

Post by MadOssor » April 18th, 2008, 8:30 am

torangan wrote:And actually this question makes more sense in some forum of your distribution or even as a feature request in their bug tracker.
True.

Of course RPM can recommend packages too, and yes, I have to say I haven't thought about that when writing my first post, and yes it would be an acceptable solution. For a long time I also splitted my packages, but since 1.4 I got back to 1 large data package. If people in the forum want them to be splitted again (this time including music package and other ideas) , sent me mail or open a opensuse bug for it, assign it to me.

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Re: Split off the music from the wesnoth .rpm/.deb in linux?

Post by Chris NS » April 21st, 2008, 4:18 pm

Well, I've just tried selectively updating Wesnoth on Ubuntu, and if you untick one Wesnoth package, the whole lot get unticked. So you don't actually have the option for selective installation (at least, not easily).

I'm not an expert on rpm/deb builds, so I don't know whether changing a dependency from required to recommended would fix this.

Anyway, the 1.4 release is already out, so I'll probably wait for 1.5 releases and pester some package builders then.

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Re: Split off the music from the wesnoth .rpm/.deb in linux?

Post by torangan » April 22nd, 2008, 12:28 am

You know that 1.5 will probably take about a year to come out? I guess you're more talking about 1.4.1, 1.4.2 ... :mrgreen:
WesCamp-i18n - Translations for User Campaigns:
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Re: Split off the music from the wesnoth .rpm/.deb in linux?

Post by Chris NS » April 22nd, 2008, 7:04 am

I know when 1.5 is coming out. It's just that changing the way packages are built in mid-1.4 series will probably defeat the object of a stable branch.

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