Windows distributions as separate downloads?

borsook · Post by **borsook** » March 20th, 2007, 11:21 am

It would be very convinient if windows distribution was more like linux one, ie allowing the user to download only those parts of the game he/she wants. If it's too much hassle, then maybe at least making music a separate download? It's fairly big, compresses badly and usually doesn't change that often.

ILikeProgramming · Post by **ILikeProgramming** » March 20th, 2007, 10:50 pm

I think this a bad idea for wesnoth. Windows users can get annoyed by having to download many things. Besides, most people would want the entire game.

Another solution some games have is to download a small installer which in turn downloads the needed files from the internet. (here you can chose not to download some parts) The problem with this approach is that when I download an installer and go over to my friend's house, I can't install the game there because the internet is too slow.

borsook · Post by **borsook** » March 20th, 2007, 11:11 pm

ILikeProgramming wrote:I think this a bad idea for wesnoth. Windows users can get annoyed by having to download many things. Besides, most people would want the entire game.

I would disagree. First of all Linux users essentially do get that, why windows users be discriminated? It's not that a person on Linux can cope and the one using windows can't with downloading 2 things. I too do assume most users would want the whole game (especially since the music is exellent) but do you really think they're so keen on redownloading the music files over and over again with every release?

Post by **Viliam** » March 20th, 2007, 11:15 pm

Maybe there could be some kind of installer-updater working similar to SVN. I do not know if this idea has been tried somewhere, but I will try to explain it.

For simpler case, imagine a game written in an interpreted language. A game where is no compilation necessary... you just take the "source" and data, and run it; that's all. To keep such game up to date, all you need is SVN. When developers put a new version into SVN repository, you check it out, and you have a newer version of the game, with minimum downloading.

The Windows version of C++ game is more difficult. Some files could be easily transfered by SVN as it is now: game data, pictures, music. Some files are not necessary for end user: source files. And there are some additional files for end user: "*.exe" and "*.dll" files. Yet I think such situation could be solved by a SVN mechanism with come modifications.

1) People who make binary packages, would put their compiled files into SVN. Binaries for each platform would be in a separate subdirectory, to avoid chaos.

2) The installer would decide where to put the data, and which SVN directories should be ignored, because they are not needed on this platform. It would also install platform-specific things like "Start" menu icons and desktop icons. Then, to check out a new version, the installer would do a simple SVN checkout.

What do you think about it? (I am not proposing it for Wesnoth now, but as a general idea.) Does some project already use something similar?

RCG Tiburon · Post by **RCG Tiburon** » March 21st, 2007, 1:22 am

borsook wrote:
ILikeProgramming wrote:I think this a bad idea for wesnoth. Windows users can get annoyed by having to download many things. Besides, most people would want the entire game.
I would disagree. First of all Linux users essentially do get that, why windows users be discriminated? It's not that a person on Linux can cope and the one using windows can't with downloading 2 things. I too do assume most users would want the whole game (especially since the music is exellent) but do you really think they're so keen on redownloading the music files over and over again with every release?

well your excellent patch work is remedying that

ILikeProgramming · Post by **ILikeProgramming** » March 21st, 2007, 3:58 am

borsook wrote:
ILikeProgramming wrote:I think this a bad idea for wesnoth. Windows users can get annoyed by having to download many things. Besides, most people would want the entire game.
I too do assume most users would want the whole game (especially since the music is excellent) but do you really think they're so keen on redownloading the music files over and over again with every release?

Well, I assumed you meant splitting the campaigns into separate downloads because that is what linux (at least ubuntu) does. Splitting the music (and other stuff) is a good idea, as long as there is still a full download for first-time users or those who have a fast internet connection.

borsook · Post by **borsook** » March 21st, 2007, 5:22 am

ILikeProgramming wrote:
borsook wrote: I too do assume most users would want the whole game (especially since the music is excellent) but do you really think they're so keen on redownloading the music files over and over again with every release?
Well, I assumed you meant splitting the campaigns into separate downloads because that is what linux (at least ubuntu) does. Splitting the music (and other stuff) is a good idea, as long as there is still a full download for first-time users or those who have a fast internet connection.

Well, I personally wouldn't mind splitting into as many packets as one wants, but indeed an excessive number might not be good (unless some sort of setup that downloads selected components on demand be introduced). But separating music as the big-badly compressing-rarely changing part might be nice. And there would still be a point of my making a patch then

freddf · Post by **freddf** » March 21st, 2007, 9:04 am

borsook wrote:
ILikeProgramming wrote: Well, I assumed you meant splitting the campaigns into separate downloads because that is what linux (at least ubuntu) does. Splitting the music (and other stuff) is a good idea, as long as there is still a full download for first-time users or those who have a fast internet connection.
Well, I personally wouldn't mind splitting into as many packets as one wants, but indeed an excessive number might not be good (unless some sort of setup that downloads selected components on demand be introduced). But separating music as the big-badly compressing-rarely changing part might be nice. And there would still be a point of my making a patch then

Just to casting my vote for separate music.

But I don't see why campaigns can't be separate downloads too. Furthermore, but correct me if I'm wrong, campaign files are platform-agnostic, so the same can be used for Windows, OSX or Ubuntu

. I think that the campaigns can be downloaded from inside the game, but as said before, not everybody has a fast internet access, and sometimes no Internet access at all. So the 6(?) main campaigns can be offered as individual downloads.
An other think to be considered on the number of possible new downloads to offer is the time/workload it will generate if they are fragmented too much. For example right now I can think about:
1) Full version as now. This should definitely stay for all people that don't care, have fast connections and don't want to
2) Full version w/o music
3) The music
4) The engine only. Should it include graphics, or they are the same in
5) Campaigns as individual downloads. Should there be also an all campaigns as one download?
6) Language files (one for each language?

or all together)
It it too much? Or few? And how to manage it? Will the user have to patch it manually (that they should be labeled "advanced users only", or will there later be an automatic update manager that will be able to patch it both from Internet or from local files?

Finally my personal preferences, so that you can clearly see toward what I'm biased and make your criticism accordingly.

I prefer manually decompressing Wesnoth installation and then strip it down of all "unneeded" files, such as extra languages resources (text and manuals) and campaigns that I don't want to play anymore.

Post by **torangan** » March 21st, 2007, 1:58 pm

It's very easy: package it in any way you wish and links will be put on the Wesnoth page. If you maintain it well, it can probably also be put on sourceforge.net. Just don't expect the current developers / packagers to do. You may ask but you'll have no gurantees unless you do it yourself.

borsook · Post by **borsook** » March 21st, 2007, 4:26 pm

torangan wrote:It's very easy: package it in any way you wish and links will be put on the Wesnoth page. If you maintain it well, it can probably also be put on sourceforge.net. Just don't expect the current developers / packagers to do. You may ask but you'll have no gurantees unless you do it yourself.

Yes, it seems I gotta learn how to compile stuff after all...

Post by **Viliam** » March 21st, 2007, 7:43 pm

borsook wrote:Yes, it seems I gotta learn how to compile stuff after all...

Not necessarily. Just wait until a "classic" Windows package is released, then download it, and divide into smaller packages.

Post by **Yogibear** » March 21st, 2007, 7:47 pm

@borsook
You don't necessarily have to learn how to compile. I have to do the compilation for a new release anyway and it's a no-brainer to zip the exe and email it to you (that's about 1.5 MB).

@viliam
There is two things you need to do additionally to just check out svn files:
1. Get the exe and dll's
The exe is complicated unless someone else provides you with a build. Dll's are almost always the same, they can be copied from another installation.
2. Internationalization files
Not the biggest deal if you know how to do it and definitely easier than compiling from c++ source. But still a little hassle to set up.

Apart from that, a svn checkout would work fine. However, i think borsook with his patch can cut the needed bandwidth quite a lot so i would like him to go on with his task.

borsook · Post by **borsook** » March 22nd, 2007, 1:07 am

Viliam wrote:
borsook wrote:Yes, it seems I gotta learn how to compile stuff after all...
Not necessarily. Just wait until a "classic" Windows package is released, then download it, and divide into smaller packages.

That solution has only one fault - I still have to download the whole package every time.

borsook · Post by **borsook** » March 22nd, 2007, 1:12 am

Yogi Bear wrote:@borsook
You don't necessarily have to learn how to compile. I have to do the compilation for a new release anyway and it's a no-brainer to zip the exe and email it to you (that's about 1.5 MB).

@viliam
There is two things you need to do additionally to just check out svn files:
1. Get the exe and dll's
The exe is complicated unless someone else provides you with a build. Dll's are almost always the same, they can be copied from another installation.
2. Internationalization files
Not the biggest deal if you know how to do it and definitely easier than compiling from c++ source. But still a little hassle to set up.

Apart from that, a svn checkout would work fine. However, i think borsook with his patch can cut the needed bandwidth quite a lot so i would like him to go on with his task.

I'll take your kind offer, tomorrow I should have (RL not getting in the way) a more elegant versions of the patch/no music setups, I'll contact you then if you don't mind.

borsook · Post by **borsook** » March 29th, 2007, 7:41 pm

I don't suppose anyone cares about it, but I do not want to seem unreliable so - just wanted to say I'm experiencing some problems with my PC (faulty RAM chip I'm afraid) as soon as I solve these (this week I hope) I'll upload new versions of patches (changed installer) and separate components Wesnoth for Windows.