Scenario Review: EI 18a - The Duel

Feedback for the mainline campaign Eastern Invasion.

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AxalaraFlame
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Re: Scenario Review: EI 18a - The Duel

Post by AxalaraFlame » January 8th, 2012, 9:50 am

l have never been a big game maker, but l have good ideas of scripts. l think l can make a better story for eastern invasion

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AxalaraFlame
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Re: Scenario Review: EI 18a - The Duel

Post by AxalaraFlame » January 11th, 2012, 9:23 am

regardless, this is a campaign fedback, l shall do this at least
(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
hardest

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
l screwed mal ravanal up through in through without save load lol~

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
very clear but strange enough. who the hell will be so silly to ask a duel against bunch of arcane-grand knights? He'd even brought a deathblade with him!

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
not interesting. actually l think Greddery can say something like "mvmhaha!! Your duel idea is very foolish, just like a noob lol~"

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
chase the foolish boss before he called on reinforcements

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
disappointing. honestly, it can be made harder

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
l changed the idiot's reruiting list. He now get a lich, a draug, a nightgrunt, a specture, a ghast and a banebow. the deathknight and deathblade can make no any sense for this duel. they are lame~~

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
mal ravanal froze Greddery once......

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
for this scenerio it is just so simple compare to the awesome under the burning suns WML code

line
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Re: Scenario Review: EI 18a - The Duel

Post by line » January 24th, 2012, 9:50 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.8.6, hard
322 starting gold (how comes, referring to the walkthrough it's supposed to be 200?)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2 if you just want to accomplish the objective. Maybe 6 if you want to beat the mission without losing a unit.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
There should be some explanation, why Mal-Ravanal agreed to the duel (as I said in Weldyn under attack - that should be our suggestion not his). At the end of Weldyn under attack Mal-Ravanal should come across, just to see how things are going on - then he notices, that there is Dacyn among the defenders of the city. As he wants to kill him with his own hands (because he never could get over that Dacyn was once chosen instead of him) he offers the duel - but he challenges of course Gweddry and Dacyn, because Dacyn is the one he is after (that would mean the player just recruits 5 units).
This can be the only reason, why Mal-Ravanal leaves his superior position against Weldyn and agrees to have a duel with similar starting positions.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Not losing a unit. Winning is no challenge.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
It's nice and the final fight doesn't necessarily need to be a giant battle. This ending would fit in the story so far.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Mal-Ravanal is to weak. His reinforcements later in the battle are laughable (if one was able to kill his initial recalls, this reinforcement puts up no thread).
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line
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Re: Scenario Review: EI 18a - The Duel

Post by line » May 10th, 2012, 8:43 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.9.14, hard
438 starting gold (obviously the walkthrough is wrong concerning the starting gold)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2 if you just want to accomplish the objective. Maybe 6 if you want to beat the mission without losing a unit.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
In "The Council" Dacyn says, that if Mal Ravanal had known he (Dacyn) was there when he attacked (at the outpost, 1st scenario), he would have pursued them much more vigorously. That means, there must be some aha-experience, when Mal R. learns, that Dacyn is among the defenders. As you can recall Dacyn in The Duel, there should be some reaction from Mal R. if you do so.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Not losing a unit. Winning is no challenge.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7. It's something different to the usual great final battle.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Konrad is so strong with his sceptre of fire in "Weldyn under Attack". But now, it's not possible to recall him (what is quite understandable, because carrying the sceptre he is even stronger than Gweddry). There should be a short note that Konrad won't participate in the duel, to avoid the risk of losing both leaders.
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line
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Re: Scenario Review: EI 18a - The Duel

Post by line » May 11th, 2012, 7:21 am

podbelski wrote:Another thing is some scenarios require a good deal of tweaking/fixing, the dragon in particular. I also like the Owaec to be quick, and his "shock" skill does not work now.
The bugs with the Dragon and Owaec's shock trait seemed to be fixed, while playing on version 1.9.14.

line
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Re: Scenario Review: EI 18a - The Duel

Post by line » May 11th, 2012, 7:35 am

AxalaraFlame wrote:WHAT THE HELL are they doing in the far north?? ln lake vrug!! What the hell are they doing there????? That doesnt make any sense!!
Another chance to bring up my idea of how to give sense to our whole acting:

http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php ... 60#p528260

One last thought: How about the dragon being the mighty ally we were looking for in the northern hills? That would immediately put sense in our earlier march to the north. The dragon used to live with the gryphoons at lake vrug (when I played that mission, the gryphoons recruited drakes, indeed). So Dacyn led us there, to ask for his support in the fight against Mal-Ravanal. (Maybe the dragon was betrayed by the gryphoons, which were offered to reign over lake vrug unimpeded by the undead – in return they helped to overwhelm the dragon and handed him over to the undead.)

http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php ... 65#p519465

To bring up my idea of the dragon of The Drowned Plains being the mighty ally we were looking for at lake vrug: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php ... 49#p519349 - how about Dacyn hailing him. Then the gryphoon leader (or maybe a messenger that comes across the first turn or at least the first gryphoon that later attacks) answers, that the dragon left and explains that Dacyn and his buddies are not welcome here. Then Dacyn (and not right from the beginning) should state, that we will have to fight not only the trolls but also the gryphoons/drakes and advise Gweddry to hedgehog because he knows how the gryphoons execute their attacks: great numbers of highly mobile units that nearly hit simultaneous.

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Ninjuri
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Re: Scenario Review: EI 18a - The Duel

Post by Ninjuri » May 16th, 2012, 12:34 am

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Easy 1.10.2
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
6
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
100%
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
I remember they talked about how the lich had some sort of arrogant hubris, so i assumed that it would be the humans that convince him to a duel, playing on his sense of pride. Not much sense in him initiating it himself, seeing that he had a much larger army and could have easy won in a conventional all out war, (or at least as he claims).
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Making sure i got to the lit part of the cave and fought there.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8. First time I played a duel type scenario.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Maybe a more varied arena, with pillars and stuff so you could take full advantage of strategy, but that's no big deal, it was fine how it is.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No, key units got killed but since it was the last scenario i didn't care.
Fate is against me.

Loci
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Re: Scenario Review: EI 18a - The Duel

Post by Loci » May 25th, 2012, 1:56 am

zookeeper wrote:Yes, everyone agrees that EI makes rather little sense and that it'd be nice if someone would fix it, yet no one has done so.
I have updated the storyline for Eastern Invasion. In essence, Gweddry and co. spend the campaign searching for a way to defeat Mal-Ravanal instead of abandoning their country and incompetently running away. There's still plenty of room for improvement, but hopefully this update gets the Eastern Invasion storyline into the same ballpark as the other mainline campaigns.

While my goal was to make the campaign storyline coherent and interesting, I did make playability changes to a few scenarios. The only ones that I think might require rebalancing are 18a - The Duel and 18b - Weldyn Besieged.

I have attached the modified campaign for review.
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Eastern Invasion campaign - updated storyline
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zookeeper
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Re: Scenario Review: EI 18a - The Duel

Post by zookeeper » May 25th, 2012, 7:13 am

Loci wrote:
zookeeper wrote:Yes, everyone agrees that EI makes rather little sense and that it'd be nice if someone would fix it, yet no one has done so.
I have updated the storyline for Eastern Invasion. In essence, Gweddry and co. spend the campaign searching for a way to defeat Mal-Ravanal instead of abandoning their country and incompetently running away. There's still plenty of room for improvement, but hopefully this update gets the Eastern Invasion storyline into the same ballpark as the other mainline campaigns.

While my goal was to make the campaign storyline coherent and interesting, I did make playability changes to a few scenarios. The only ones that I think might require rebalancing are 18a - The Duel and 18b - Weldyn Besieged.

I have attached the modified campaign for review.
That's pretty good stuff you have there. :hmm: I didn't check how the various effects you added look like in-game yet, but the textual changes seem good to me.

Good job. :D

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The_Afterman
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Re: Scenario Review: EI 18a - The Duel

Post by The_Afterman » August 9th, 2012, 12:56 am

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on? Easy
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) 7
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives? 10
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario? 9, I love how the main protagonist & antagonist go face to face in an epic duel. With your best men at your side.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario? The lich's cheating.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10) 9
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun? Less cheating, though I'm sure lots of people liked that.

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flammstrudel
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Re: Scenario Review: EI 18a - The Duel

Post by flammstrudel » October 4th, 2014, 5:44 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
1.10.3 hard (Challenging - Royal Guard)
200 gold

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
3

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
I had to deal with some crazy unlucky rolls. Great Mage missing 4 out of 4 and crap like that. Of course it's obvious what you have to do: recall arcane units and get the first strike.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8/10 It's good way to end the campaign.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
...

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
RNG madness
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Nel
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Re: Scenario Review: EI 18a - The Duel

Post by Nel » April 3rd, 2015, 4:22 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Medium, 1.12.0

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5 - With enough holy units, it's not too difficult. It was very short, too (4 turns).

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
OK, fine

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Not getting any unit killed. I tried several times, but couldn't manage to have all units survive. I think luck has a big role too: when I retried, I've had several 4-no-hit-fireballs from the Magis, and they were killed in return, of course. Couldn't do better than the first or second time (second time, because the first time, I forgot Gweddry shouldn't get killed and should be well protected).

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
9

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Well, at the end, maybe it could be an idea to mention the poor units that got killed to save Wesnoth from the evil Mal-Ravanal. Bury them maybe?

Also, this is more about the whole campaign, I find that Owaec is really weak. Maybe I didn't manage to level up him soon enough, but at some point in a replay (I think in "Weldyn under attack") he did level up to level 3, and even so, he was still quite weak. (And as he is weak, it's difficult to level him up). At the end, he still get thanked by Konrad II, even if he didn't fight a lot...

On the other hand, one of the first 'unknown' characters became very powerful and useful during the campaign and was not thanked for all she did. I don't know how it is possible, but that would be nice, maybe, to let the player choose one or two units among the non-loyal ones, that could be thanked for all their help throughout the campaign.

At last, I would mention that I've read somewhere in the wiki, that knights or dragons are well advised to take a holy amulet; I would add that great mages with a holy amulet are also really terrific against undead! Like 4 shots at 70% of hitting 24...

This was a nice campaign; from the comments about the first versions, I can see that it evolved very well. Nice work! Thanks!
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Re: Scenario Review: EI 18a - The Duel

Post by taptap » May 6th, 2015, 9:28 pm

I found this harder than the previous scenario. I usually don't like limited unit play even if you do everything "right" a single turn can screw you over. I went with Iron Mauler, arcane Lancer (peaking at over 50 damage PER strike), Paladin, arcane Great Mage, Dacyn, Mage of Light. Made it with the help of some AMLA's healing my units.

---

General comment:

The campaign looks like designed from scenario ideas. The gameplay is fine, but the story is hardly plausible. For a long time it didn't find the tune, where I willingly dispend disbelief. The end somewhat resolves this by giving motivation for the excessive detour through the whole continent, but it is really late in the campaign. When you learn about it, several of the hardest scenarios are already done. It also makes it even more obvious that going east all the time to the capital is outright stupid. Why is Dacyn putting up with the heroic antics of a junior officer, when he knows that Mal Ravanal can not be defeated?
I am a Saurian Skirmisher: I'm a real pest, especially at night.

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shadow12
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Re: Scenario Review: EI 18a - The Duel

Post by shadow12 » November 15th, 2015, 3:53 am

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Med
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) 2.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives? Clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Clear. I liked the description of MR's death.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario? none, it was over on turn 5.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10) 8. I liked the idea of having a duel to finish the campaign.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun? Make it a little more difficult.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario? nope
Sometimes life unexpectedly throws a Troll or a nasty Queen Naga in your path.

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