Scenario Review - EI: Evacuation

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KingsIndian
Posts: 11
Joined: June 6th, 2010, 12:14 am

Re: Scenario Review - EI: Evacuation

Post by KingsIndian » July 18th, 2010, 6:23 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Medium, 1.8.0

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7. However, I only saved four veterans (a Paladin, a Grand Knight with a Holy Amulet, and two Dragoons).

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Crystal

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
The storyline isn't too bad, but the dialogue could have been a bit more positive.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Keeping my heroes safe. I did this by running away from Blue, and ZoCing Green and Purple with a bunch of suicide Cavalrymen. It bought me just enough time.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
3. Losing all those veterans is NOT fun. Especially two of the four with Holy Amulets...I might as well have traded them in on Cash4Gold.com >_< . The saving grace is that I managed to beat an "impossible" scenario without saveloading at any point (although I did have to play the scenario three times before beating it on my fourth attempt).

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Replace some of the Orcs with Mal-Ravanal and his Undead, make the map a bit larger so that they start a bit further away from you, and make it so that you can't cross the bridge without some proper combat, and you have a workable final scenario (although, having not yet played the actual final scenario of EI, I don't know whether this would be any better). Mid-campaign, however, it doesn't work. It just kills the campaign for lots of players.

Jozrael
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Location: NJ, USA.

Re: Scenario Review - EI: Evacuation

Post by Jozrael » July 19th, 2010, 5:24 pm

I'll agree that losing the large majority of your army isn't fun, but it's necessary to keep the campaign challenging imo.

monochromatic
Posts: 1548
Joined: June 18th, 2009, 1:45 am

Re: Scenario Review - EI: Evacuation

Post by monochromatic » July 19th, 2010, 7:25 pm

If you went to Mal Ravanal's Capital and saved all the Knights, this scenario is a breeze. Rush them in all directions with your veterans and recuirt young ogres to backup.

monochromatic
Posts: 1548
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Re: Scenario Review - EI: Evacuation

Post by monochromatic » July 20th, 2010, 7:50 pm

turin wrote:(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Normal 1.8.3
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4 - I don't see the fuss about this scenario. Rushing Knights and Cavalry in all directions with ogres in support crushes their troops. Most of the fighting happens at day, too.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Nothing much.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Timing charges correctly and dealing with a bit of bad luck.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8 - good scenario.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
As is.

Thrash
Posts: 190
Joined: June 25th, 2010, 1:54 pm

Re: Scenario Review - EI: Evacuation

Post by Thrash » July 24th, 2010, 3:48 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?

1.8.3, Medium, 448 starting gold

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

3, based on what I've read it seems to have gotten easier. I only lost a couple recruits and no higher level units. Of course I'm starting the next level with min gold, so perhaps I mortgaged my future.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

I did the "kill all enemy leaders" objective, which was clear enough.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Engineer has a strange accent...

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

I really had no major problems except keeping Oweac alive (my fault as I put him where he got pounded on the first time by the southern orcs and he never really recovered enough to do anything after that - if only he had a ranged attack, sigh).

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

5

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Make Oweac more interesting to... oh, never mind.
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dsa
Posts: 58
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Re: Scenario Review - EI: Evacuation

Post by dsa » November 13th, 2010, 9:54 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Challenging, 1.8.4.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
Difficult to judge. Killing all the leaders would be a 10, because this seemed impossible to me. Maybe with more gold I could have managed to do it, but I had only over 330 gold.

Blowing up the bridge isn't too difficult, but the challenge is to save as many units as possible in addition to the heroes. I managed to save my most important units (2 Paladins, loyal Ogre, "arcane" Dragoon and a Mage of Light), that's why I would give a 8 for pursuing this option.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
It found it a bit strange, that even units, who were standing on the bridge survive the explosion. The units on the northern part die, but the units on the southern part of the bridge survive.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The Troll Warriors, who put me under pressure right from the beginning.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8, losing many units was a bit sad, but it was an interesting challenge to decide which units shall survive and protect them.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
None

BroodKiller
Posts: 30
Joined: August 12th, 2008, 9:24 pm

Re: Scenario Review - EI: Evacuation

Post by BroodKiller » December 17th, 2010, 5:43 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Medium, Wesnoth 1.8.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4 for the escape tactics, 7 or 10 for "Kill all leaders" (depending on luck with enemy recruits, also see the comment below).

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Crystal clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
It was clear and decently interesting, although it could perhaps be more elaborate about the little time that you've got (there are not many 12-turn scenarios, and the time runs out before you even notice). I think it could be made more explicit and dramatic that many units will likely be killed there to allow for your escape (the die-for-your-leader pathos thing).

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
No big challenges for the escape. Have yet to finish by killing all leaders, but the lvl3 Trolls are indeed a bother early on.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
5 for the escape, 8 for the carnage :)

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Well, I feel it needs to be made more explicit that your recall list will be emptied when you blow the bridge, not just that the units present on the map will die. I managed to escape by turn 5 with relatively ease using but a few lvl1 cavalrymen and spearmen to cover my flanks (see replay), only to find out in the next scenario that I have just my 2 lucky lvl1 cavalrymen to recall, and the whole contingent of 10 lvl3 vets is gone without even using them in battle! While this can still be saved through clever storytelling, it is something that is quite unexpected, and as such needs attention. It creates a somewhat scary situation that you're, well, in the middle of a campaign without any real forces.

==General comment==
I admit that this scenario can easily be a real stopper, if you don't play it right. I cannot imagine running for the bridge and saving your veterans, as it turns into a slaughter right away. The Troll recruiting a full castle of regenerating Trolls and Troll Warriors (+6 already on the map) really makes you drop all hope, ontop of Direwolves and Pillagers biting your ass right from turn 2 from both east and west.
The only viable strats I see are the 'suicide run' or a focused leader assasination which does requires a fair bit of luck in enemy recruits. Your chances rely on killing the southern orc quick (by turn2, preferaby), otherwise he'll recruit another 3-5 units and you'll be swarmed. Such a strat leaves you fighting against just 2 opponents, which is no big difficulty. In Thrash's replay, in turn2 he killed the southern orc leader who left the castle after recruiting 4 crossbowmen(!), no match for seasoned melee units, and the rest is just a well-performed tactical game (actually, a piece of cake with 4 Paladins, 3 Iron Maulers and 3 White Mages ;)).
I know that giving advice to the player about which strategy to play is not a good thing, but after reading all the previous posts, and given the odds of this scenario (loosing most or all your veterans) I believe it should be included in one way or another. Perhaps the dialog could be extended with the characters discussing that they must act quick and focus their attacks on one leader at a time, or make the run for it? The map itself is fine as it is, and it is playable even with very little gold, as can be seen from my reply. However, going for the killing strategy absolutely depends on the cash the player has. At least 300 is a must, as you need both your veterans and lvl1 expendables. This dual choice can also be discussed by the characters, to make it perfeectly clear for the player, with something like:
-"We're sorrouned!"
-"We must run for the bridge and forsake our friends in battle!"
-"...or try to make our stand here, but we'll need many men and make them to do their best"

Overall, I like the scenario, but I think it requires some refinement, as outlined above.

EDIT: Changed the difficulty for the escape to a definite 4 instead of 4-5. The real problem is finding the right path, just near the forest, so that you don't get a pounding in turn 2. The rest is just a living-shield-run-for-your-life ;)
EDIT2: Just recalled one more thing that came to my mind after finishing - if there is supposed to be a huge boom when you blow up the bridge, why only the player's units die? It would be very rewarding to see all the enemies die, and would nicely conclude (at least aesthetically) the whole run.
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Clean...Simple...Devious...I like it

BroodKiller
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Re: Scenario Review - EI: Evacuation

Post by BroodKiller » December 20th, 2010, 4:42 pm

Just wanted to say that I managed to kill all the enemy leaders by turn 9, so it is by no means impossible to do!

I played on 'medium' and started with 402 gold. I recalled a full castle of my lvl3 and lvl2 vets (mostly Iron Maulers and Paladins, which turned out to be quite useful later on) and moved on turn 1 with all the hereos for the southern orc, who - luckily - left the safety of his castle after recruiting 2 crossbowmen and 2 grunts. In turn 2, I quickly disposed of the leader, and moved on to quickly clean the place for some fresh recruits, while my heavy troops held off the northeastern orc. My central forces waded off the western Troll (eh...mages, eh...charge) and the rest was just a matter of time, as you can see from the replay.

Interestingly, I have not suffered very big losses, the main grief being 2 of my 3 Paladins and a Shock Trooper, but given the odds of the scenario, I believe I did fine anyways. What I realized, is that with just 12 turns, there is little place for tactical combat here - what counts is raw damage output. You need to kill them as they come, so Iron Maulers with their very harming 25-26 work miracles. Charges in full daylight are a necessity too, I feel, even if you know that your unit will likely not survive the next turn. The more tactical swordsman/pikeman/cavalryman line units just won't kill the enemies fast enough before you're overwhelmed. Luck also plays a role, as I needed to expose my leaders on occassions that I otherwise wouldn't, but all in all - it is perfectly doable, as long as you accept losing a few veterans (and not that many, actually).

On a final note - I ended up with only slightly negative gold (-5 or something), so the rest of the campaign is not doomed, as you might fear. Also, it is also a tremendous fun to play when many things are at stake and individual duels matter a lot, so I diversified the fun score that I have originally given to this scenario between 'escape' and 'carnage' routes. It is a really challenging and interesting scenario, I think, and I advice everyone to revisit it, if they had a bad experience here :)
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Clean...Simple...Devious...I like it

podbelski
Posts: 151
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Re: Scenario Review - EI: Evacuation

Post by podbelski » September 7th, 2011, 1:39 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.9.8, top difficulty, 305gp, no reloads

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
Impossible to kill the leaders, and 7-to-8 for escape w/o big losses, certainly tough but doable. Finished in 1st attempt after watching Maiklas' replay (mostly used his tactics for ogres placement).

The replay crashes the game, so here how it worked for me:

1 turn, I recalled two leveled ogres, 5 young ones and a 2nd level cavalry ready to lvl up. Moved Owaec and both mages to the village.
2nd turn I split young ogres to the western and eastern mountains (they seem to be really lovely target for AI for some reason), and leveled ogres moved down to mess up with purple. Recalled 7 lvl3 units and one Shock Trooper, there are 2 more of them left unrecruited and that's all of my veterans.
3rd and 4rth turns I rushed quickly into the passage distracting the enemies with weaker units.
In the end of turn 5 I was positioned in front of the bridge, turn 6 almost everyone crossed it, turn 7 I win.

Losses:
- 5 young ogres
- 2 big ogres
- 1 shock trooper killed, 2 were not recalled
- mauler was bogged down by pillagers and died after killing a couple of enemies
- halberdier committed a suicide placement, but survived 6 attackers for 1 turn

All 3 of my holywater-holders have survived, and now I have:
- Gweddry, Dacyn, Owaec, Engineer
- Grand Knight
- Silver Mage
- Light Mage
- Royal Guard
- 2 Cavaliers

and pretty happy about it.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
I have a feeling the whole campaign we are running without a solid aim, everyone kicks our butts. Still have no clue why do we deserve this destiny. If this is what the campaign is about then yeah, storyline was clear lol

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
arrange the escape passage

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
I can say it's fun, probably "7" or "8"

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
don't like how the "engineer" talks, have no clue what's the meaning behind it.

podbelski
Posts: 151
Joined: June 7th, 2011, 8:35 pm

Re: Scenario Review - EI: Evacuation

Post by podbelski » September 7th, 2011, 4:43 pm

a couple of sceenshots fwiw...

turn3.jpg
^^ Turn 3, middle
turn6.jpg
^^ Turn 6, beginning

line
Posts: 94
Joined: January 11th, 2012, 9:21 pm

Re: Scenario Review - EI: Evacuation

Post by line » January 17th, 2012, 11:57 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.8.6, hard
302 starting gold (obviously no one playing on hard difficulty (podbelski, dsa, maiklas and myself) managed to start with significant more gold than about 300)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8 for the run. 300 gold is too few to kill the leaders. I think my recall list would allow me going for it, but my starting gold is far from making it happen.
On the recall list I had:
1 halberdier
1 royal guard (arcane enhanced)
1 mage of light
2 ogres
2 paladin
2 knights (7/14 XP from levelling)
1 red mage
4 shock troopers
2 silver mages
5 iron maulers
2 grand knights (both arcane enhanced)
That's already 460 gold to recall all of them. Plus some gold for baby ogres. At least 550 gold to even try it (I'm really curious, if that army could have been able to succeed).

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
First we ran happily to the north, now we flee to the south. I'm still waiting for answers...

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
How about the great trolls, orcish warriors and warlords? Also the goblin pillagers with their slowing ability scared me. Thankfully, the ogres and iron maulers did their job to distract them but also the trolls. Without the ogres being, for whatever reason, nr. 1 target things will turn out quite bad. So it feels a bit like cheating.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
Once you accept to run, and as a consequence of this the loss of many veterans, you may feel happy about saving at least some of them. So there might be fun in it. (But also pain. )

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I don't think it was created for having fun, but to suffer. To leave me with a better feeling, someone could point out, that the non-recalled troops aren't dead (or caught at the troll's side of the river, what equals it) but will stay to defend the river and therefore not join you in the further campaign.
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line
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Re: Scenario Review - EI: Evacuation

Post by line » January 20th, 2012, 8:28 am

As I rescued a (non-arcane) halberdier and let the about to level knight become a royal knight, I wasn't too glad about that decision in the following scenarios, so I decided to come back to evacuation (also I liked to find out, if I could repeat my winning/running strategy or if the good outcome before was just based on luck).

First I found out, that I didn't mention one essential thing about my ogre placing. The middle two ogres I sent south on the two mountain hexes between my keep and the southern orc had to be fast ones. When recruited, you place them in your keep out of the fast troll warrior's reach, because otherwise it will make him come north to attack what will hinder you getting the southern ogres in the perfect blocking position. Second, it seems to be decisive, how far Gweddry moves in round two to the west for the western trolls behaviour. Dacyn placed in the village seems not to be that inviting, but Gweddry running too far west will get their full attention.
At least I had two changes about my recalls. I switched the about to level knight to the loyal paladin (in the earlier version I chose the knight, to be able to recover after getting some hits by levelling up) and the halberdier (non-arcane) to a silver mage (what I think I can make more use of in Weldyn under attack).
Unexpectedly I could even save an iron mauler! So I guess, I maxed it out and saved as many veterans as I could (no reloads once the right strategy is found).

Two more things: In case the engineer is at the signpost while the heros are still north, I think he shouldn't even ask to blow up the bridge. The dialogue could be changed to: "I guess you don't want me to blow up the bridge now?". At least it shouldn't be possible to do so. Also the bug still exists: Blowing the bridge up, with the heros still north of it, will make them die - but you win the scenario and proceed with Gweddry as a lieutenant and the engineer being your starting units in the swamps.
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line
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Re: Scenario Review - EI: Evacuation

Post by line » May 7th, 2012, 10:25 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.9.14, hard
268 starting gold

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7. I was lacking lvl 2 ogres, so I only recruited 4 young ogres (because I didn't rescue the ogre leader before and didn't promote any young ogres in the following missions). The trolls made really short work of them. Because of their short time of being I couldn't bring a single IM across the bridge.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Clear.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Recalling the units which I wanted to take over the bridge and also recruiting enough fodder to cover them. I hoped for at least one IM to be rescued, too.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
As said before.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
None. I'm afraid I cannot sufficiently appreciate that this scenario is also (like some others in this campaign) totally different to the usual kill-the-boss(es)-missions.
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Ninjuri
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Re: Scenario Review - EI: Evacuation

Post by Ninjuri » May 13th, 2012, 7:35 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Easy 1.10.2
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
3
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
100%
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
This might not be particular to this specific scenario but about the campaign in general leading up to and including this part... So the group retreated north because they feared the undead, and then got pushed right back out because they forgot there were orcs up there? Poor planning on the part of daclyn.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
I didn't really get the point, i recruited a bunch of calvarymen for their defense stats, and lined them up on either side of the path leading to the bridge, to sponge attacks from the two bases. I then walked in between them like i was at a wedding having rice thrown at me. I did manage to level up that one horse guy so that was good.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Not sure

Edit: I only learned that recalled units were not carried over after i beat the level and check my list on the next level... So i should now say that i found the objectives not very clear and will be doing this level over.
Fate is against me.

ynot-2
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Re: Scenario Review - EI: Evacuation

Post by ynot-2 » October 3rd, 2012, 11:54 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Easy Version 1.10.3

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4, But before my last game I would have said 10

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Very clear

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Trying not to be surrounded

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
5, But before my last game I would have said 1

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
None maybe except give a few more turns to complete.

I have played this game for 4 years but I hadn't played this campaign for a couple years because I became convinced this scenario was impossible to complete (without cheating)! I decided to revisit this campaign last weekend and I beat it. Not only did I kill all enemy units on the scenario, but I didn't lose any of my core units and I didn't cheat!

I had a strategy but, I got VERY LUCKY :o

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