Scenario Review - EI 13 - Evacuation

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maclag
Posts: 12
Joined: October 27th, 2008, 1:22 pm

Re: Scenario Review - EI: Evacuation

Post by maclag » July 18th, 2009, 9:46 am

Me again, I won't copy what I've written before.
Just an additional info:
I've spent over one month on this single scenario!
Never ever ever ever (for those who really don't understand) been able to save ANY of my vets!
Most of time, I just end up trying to find THE unique combination, turn by turn (repeat 5 or 6 times each turn!!) that could let me finish the scenario (most of time, one of the key character dies just in front of the bridge, and there's nothing I can do for that: I just miss one turn!)
Of course, the key ogre is killed at every battle, and I spend a lot of resources just trying to figure out how not to get the Owaec killed (he's over vulnerable!!).

Now I have a concern: few scenarios away, I'm blocked (pushing back hordes of lvl2/3 undead without any heroe HA HA HA again!)
So, should I say that this next scenario is too difficult as well, or of normal difficulty and just assume the campaign was made to drive us crazy?

silent
Posts: 244
Joined: February 20th, 2009, 5:53 am

Re: Scenario Review - EI: Evacuation

Post by silent » July 19th, 2009, 1:42 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Medium 1.6.0
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7 with good luck and brutal LV3 sacrifice, 10 if luck deserts you
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Forcibly clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Was there much to comment on?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
-Inaccurate MoL's
-LV3 Trolls
-Direwolves
-Goblin pillagers with slow
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
0. Having to lose several great units including holy royal guards and a paladin is not fun. I was amazed I was able to save What I did.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I think this level would make more sense if
-Blue leader recruited only wolves, given he is trying to chase after you
-Green, due to being a troll, recruits only trolls
-Purple is fine as is
-Remove the troll guards at the start, or at the very least remove all traits, quick is too cruel on a giant killing machine. If you're worried about a CTK on the leaders at the start, move their keeps out of paladin range.

My main strategy was this.
-Recall all leveled HI and spearman and hold against blue for as long as possible. Stay in keep and villages and don't respond unless you can achieve a kill with one hit
-Move some knights out near green and purple.
-Recall everything else and the moment it is day, proceed to kill as many of green and purple's troops as possible, otherwise escape will not happen.
-As night falls, select a few expendable veterans and use these to distract purple and green
-Proceed to run everything else towards and over the bridge

Dooku
Posts: 1
Joined: July 28th, 2009, 1:23 pm

Re: Scenario Review - EI: Evacuation

Post by Dooku » July 28th, 2009, 1:47 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
- Medium, 1.6.4
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
- 10
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
- Very Clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
- I think that was better a little more dialog
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
- I think that "kill all the ennemy leaders" is a joke.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
- 0. Lose many units of hight lvl is not fun...
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
- Remove the troll guards at the start OR less gold to south orcs and west trolls.

tobbe_1
Posts: 1
Joined: July 28th, 2009, 9:50 pm

Re: Scenario Review - EI: Evacuation

Post by tobbe_1 » July 28th, 2009, 10:12 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
- Hard, 1.6.4
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
- 10
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
- Absolutely Clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
- Clear dialog, storyline is ok
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
- Surviving at all! Simply too many lvl 3 units attacking! Espcially the War Trolls always butcher my troops
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
- 0. One Hero (mostly Owaec) keeps dying. Even with a full recruitment of all my lvl 3 units (200 starting gold--> lvl3: 3x cav (2x with holy amulett), 1xpala, 2xHI, 1x Light mage, 1x archmage, 1x RG, gweddry lvl3, others 2), it only takes few rounds before the defensive lines crumble...absolutely NO Chance. Its really sad, that i will never come to try this campaign on hard lvl due to this scenario :(
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
- Reduce the amount (or their lvl) of troops in the south...lvl 2 units with an occasional lvl 3 wound still cause heavy losses...
- give some more tactical options by adding some defensive terrain or increasing the round limit
- give Owaec more HP
- change the scenario before to no upkeep that you have actually a chance to carry over a decent amount of gold to recruit some decoys

sw_emigre
Posts: 38
Joined: August 10th, 2009, 10:17 pm

Re: Scenario Review - EI: Evacuation

Post by sw_emigre » September 28th, 2009, 6:20 am

1.6, medium, impossible, and here ends my time with EI campaign. Really sad, as I found this campaign very different in a good way, with more than just the "kill all enemies" objectives. I liked the fact that I found it hard to level and keep levelled characters...I'm one of those don't like to restart just cuz I lost a high-level guy. But this scenario I found impossible to even get close to finishing, which totally blows but that's it for me.

As for ways to improve this scenario, I can second most of what others in 2009 have said. There's nothing new for me to say.

I'm very sad to have to end without seeing the campaign through to the end, but that's the breaks, I guess.

spir
Posts: 97
Joined: September 15th, 2009, 9:31 am
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Re: Scenario Review - EI: Evacuation

Post by spir » September 30th, 2009, 6:44 pm

Just finished it: Pyrrhus victory -- after several trials, all stopped at round 3.

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
medium, wesnoth 1.7.5 (could not find campaign version -- if any?).

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
~ 11

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
limpid

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Well, not clear how happens they're surrounded by such over-powered forces and just suddenly discover it -- incredibly & far too late...

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
see long comments below

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
ditto

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
ditto again



I remember having played Eastern Invasion long ago and this sequence of 3 hardissim scenarios (the caves, this one, and the dragoon) already was a bit too much.
The main difference in this precise scenario, if I remember well, is that our keep was not in range of 2 level 3 trolls from the very start; so that we had one quiet turn to prepare and organise both the suicide commando and absolutely needed diversions. We had a chance to try and build and test tactical choices. Now, instead, we start to defend at once: so, much less chance to succeed, interest and tactique. And we have no chance to start and move the commando before it is attacked and *blocked* forward, forcing to combat also in front!

Due to some luck in the caves around the torture room, I had (ogres not included) more than one castle full of recalls, *all level 3*, except for 2 shock troopers and a white mage ready to advance; and > 340 gold:
* heavy: 2 iron maulers, 2 shock troppers (ready to level up -- both did and died anyway)
* riders: 2 cavaliers
* fighters: 2 royalguards, 1 helbardier
* mages: 1 arch, 1 silver, 1 white (nearly leveled up)
plus 3 lvl2 and 3 lvl1 ogres
plus heroes.

I recalled all of them plus 3 more ogres as initial damage tank (because we have no more time to prepare...)
All units in this list died except for heroes and both cavaliers (who knows why they never get attacked, even when they are the only remaining targets?) What can we do in front of 7 lvl3 trolls at once surrounding our starting position, before any recuitment, if we don't even have one single turn to at least try something?

So, I would first recommend to move a bit the startup trolls so that they won't attack at once. Probably this change won't be enough to make this scenario both interesting & enjoyable (and to let the player with something else as nearly only fresh lvl 1 recruits in front of the dragoon and all its killer troops in their favorite environment).

At least, this would allow:
* Recruit on turn 1 and send on turn 2 suicide diversion units.
* Position them on high defense hex so that they last more than one single attack, or else use them to build a blocking ZoC curve.
* I parallel, prepare the commando on 2 first turns (first the slowest units, riders and guards on turn 2).
* Organise it so that weaker units are surrounded by super robust ones, all exposed units are in contact of a healer, and there are some holes to try & save wounded ones. [Also note that if ennemy units are not in contact at once from turn 1 on, we can let free hexes in protection perimeter. Now each hole means probably a dead unit inside.]
* Start & move before beeing blocked !!! (this we cannot anymore) Once started to move, move on constantly even if sacrifice needed.
(That's how I did it previously and this allowed to save all valuable units but 1 or 2. Comments welcome.)

But, now, we don't have a chance to try any tactical option. It's a butchery without any interest. Stop playing the campaign here & now (seems I'm not the first one), and look for some relaxing one :) .
Denis
life is strange

various stuff about BfW (rules, stats, alternatives) and WML (parser, semantic schema, evolution)

zakzak
Posts: 1
Joined: November 5th, 2009, 8:24 pm

Re: Scenario Review - EI: Evacuation

Post by zakzak » November 5th, 2009, 8:29 pm

(1) 1.6.5 Hard
(2) 10 (impossible)
(3) 10 Very clear
(4) 10 ok
(5) Not enough money after the previous scenario.
(6) 2 (rather frustrating)
(7) In fact the previous scenario should be changed (in order to have a larger early finish bonus)

Clearly it was impossible for me. I have a large quantity of levelled-up units, but it found it impossible to begin this scenario with enough money to survive more than 5 ou 6 turns (if lucky).

Note : in Medium level, I was able to achieve this scenario (with some heavy losses).

yuzername
Posts: 1
Joined: December 3rd, 2009, 5:17 pm

Re: Scenario Review - EI: Evacuation

Post by yuzername » December 3rd, 2009, 6:09 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
difficulty level: easy
version: 1.6
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
1, easy.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
clear.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
clear, ok
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
none.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
5
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
before the hero meets the orcs have him mugged by some thugs so he has to face the orcs only in underpants and without money to recruit fighters. than the hero has to try to fight his way through all lvl3 trolls with nothing but his bad breath while jumping on the left foot. if that's not enough fell free to add some undeads and/or elves just for, you know, a little bit of anticipation. that would be awesome!!!

xanthan
Posts: 12
Joined: December 20th, 2009, 5:03 pm

Re: Scenario Review - EI: Evacuation

Post by xanthan » December 31st, 2009, 4:43 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
intermediate - 1.6.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

impossible

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

fine

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

staying alive beyond turn 3

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

1. It seemed an interesting challenge until turn three, the first few times I ran it. After that it's just an exercise in frustration. I like a challenge, but it has to be possible to succeed.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

This seems to be here as an extreme challenge to advanced players. However, I was playing it on intermediate level. I tried various strategies, and all failed miserably. I don't have a huge number of leveled units. A few level threes with arcane magic from previous levels and some level twos. Am I expected to have a fort full of level threes? This scenario should be made possible for intermediate level, whether or not you have played all previous scenarios perfectly.

Also, what is the point of all the arcane damage ability we've been gaining in previous scenarios? It's not especially useful here where we are going to loose it all, most likely. All in all, this scenario is a campaign killer. It was fun getting to this point in the campaign, but it's the end of the campaign for me. This scenario is no fun, and also seems impossible with the units I have.

t3st3r
Posts: 53
Joined: September 21st, 2008, 8:54 pm

Re: Scenario Review - EI: Evacuation

Post by t3st3r » March 31st, 2010, 7:05 pm

> (1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Normal

> (2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
10 of 10 - unable to complete it without cheats. Me plays BfW several years, btw.

>(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Ok for me.

>(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Reasonably good, in overall all campaign seems to be quite interesting and this scenario can be fun. If I can win ever...

>(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Major issue: my army seems to be unable to cope with such amount of high-level units (esp. L3 trolls). So I can't just kill all enemy leaders. However, trolls are also able to reach passage in one turn and other units will catch up quickly so my attempts to escape were not successful as well - trolls and others will kill all my army and heroes quickly so I do not have time to escape. So I neuther can escape nor I can win.

>(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8/10 ... if I can win :)

>(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Put enemies at larger distance maybe and maybe less powerful enemy armies, at least at "easy" and "nortmal" levels? Right now it rather qualifies "impossible" level of gameplay while I selected "normal". Also maybe distract enemies with some minor fight so they have to delay a bit before starting pursuit?

Actually after some 10-15 unsuccessful attempts to complete this scenario I resorted to debug cheat to create several yetis who will delay and distract overpowered AIs :)

P.S. I played under BfW 1.6.5 in Kubuntu 9.10.

white_shadow
Posts: 2
Joined: April 4th, 2010, 7:49 am

Re: Scenario Review - EI: Evacuation

Post by white_shadow » April 4th, 2010, 8:05 am

Hi, before i answer that all questions, i want ask. How to destroy the bridge? I was move my all units survive to south of bridge but not finish. That bug or what? Or i must defeat all enemy? :evil:

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zookeeper
WML Wizard
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Location: Finland

Re: Scenario Review - EI: Evacuation

Post by zookeeper » April 4th, 2010, 8:15 am

white_shadow wrote:Hi, before i answer that all questions, i want ask. How to destroy the bridge? I was move my all units survive to south of bridge but not finish. That bug or what? Or i must defeat all enemy? :evil:
Move the engineer to the signpost.

white_shadow
Posts: 2
Joined: April 4th, 2010, 7:49 am

Re: Scenario Review - EI: Evacuation

Post by white_shadow » April 4th, 2010, 3:13 pm

zookeeper wrote:
white_shadow wrote:Hi, before i answer that all questions, i want ask. How to destroy the bridge? I was move my all units survive to south of bridge but not finish. That bug or what? Or i must defeat all enemy? :evil:
Move the engineer to the signpost.
thank you very much. I was sacrifice all of my units. Start with just 100 gold i only can recruit spearmans and all my units dead (just gweddry, dacyn, owaec and anggineer left). This is hardest scenario i play until now. Better if unrecall units can used again. Sacrifice is bad thing. This isn't intermediate level but expert.

brirush
Posts: 1
Joined: June 6th, 2010, 12:20 am

Re: Scenario Review - EI: Evacuation

Post by brirush » June 6th, 2010, 12:34 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Medium. iPad (around 1.8?)
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7 once I committed to discarding everyone.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Great; love the engineer.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Realizing that saving my units didn't matter.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
None.

I absolutely hated this level, trying over and over to save my units, when I realized, what if they're all supposed to die? So I used my archmage, cavalier, paladins, etc. along with a keep or two of recruits as meat shields and ran for it. Only my heroes, the red mage, and one paladin survived.

BUT:
The next three levels are perfect for leveling up. I recruited three horsemen and three mages, slowly stalked all the hidden people in the dragon level, let my horse lord whale on khrasrak(?), and then built up through the next few stages. The arrival at Wesnoth is ridiculously easy. By the final battle, I was able to recruit two paladins, an archmage, two white mages (never did level the hero Mage; stupid me), and the horse Lord.

I threw everyone but my leader and the the paladins to the right as a distraction, kept to the north, and smacked Mal-Ravan to bits, using my grand marshal to give the final blow, as an insult.

Great campaign, and having a level four leadership unit makes leveling so easy. Thanks, Turin, for an imperial campaign!

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Maiklas3000
Posts: 532
Joined: June 23rd, 2010, 10:43 am

Re: Scenario Review - EI: Evacuation

Post by Maiklas3000 » July 15th, 2010, 4:01 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
challenging; 1.8.3

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
9.5. It's maybe a 8 if you choose to run and just save a few units, as I did, but this is a bit counter-intuitive to sacrifice almost everyone, so you might stumble about unsuccessfully with other strategies.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
I didn't like the opening dialog that much, with the cute interaction with the mage-engineer. I think the cuteness is there to try to cover up that the situation is forced. You could have perhaps foreshadowed it by saying you were trying to find this guy.

I found the ending dialog too drawn out and too depressing. I've just lost all my recallable units except three level 3's. Don't have the dialog suggest that everything would be nearly hopeless even if I had all my units. Reassure the player that he just needs to get a small force to some particular place, Wesnoth I guess, to make a big difference (if that's the case.)

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Hitting on a winning strategy is difficult, especially with my limited finances (313 gold.) I first tried making a stand. Yeah, that's not going to work. I then tried baby ogre spam and running the engineer. That didn't work. Then I tried leader assassination. I killed the southern leader on turn 2, at the cost of a level 2 and two level 3 units, and then I had a shot at the northeast leader, but failed.

Then I once again tried baby ogre spam and running the engineer, and this time it worked fairly easily, albeit with some luck due to Dacyn surviving three troll attacks in one turn during the day. However, I did not save-reload at any time during the campaign.

I tried to think in terms of football, with my units blocking for the running engineer. The engineer very quickly reached the signpost. I had him run past and wait. In addition to the required units, I also saved a silver mage, a royal guard, and a mage of light (so now I have two.) The losses were staggering, of course. My two iron maulers each took only one turn to fall. Saddest was a cavalier and halberdier that didn't even have the chance to die in battle - I didn't recall them due to limited finances. Also sad was not recalling my arcane-enhanced knights. Perhaps a mistake. My arcane-enhanced halberdier died in action.

I'm not sure I have enough experienced troops to survive the upcoming scenarios, but I was influenced by the posts of someone who finished with only the required units and was able to complete the upcoming scenarios starting with level 1's. I don't know if he was playing on "challenging," though.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8. I do get some thrill out of beating "impossible" scenarios.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Hints. You could put the hints in the "you lose" epilogue, something like, "And so the undead went on to dominate Wesnoth. Things might have been different if Gweddry had successfully assassinated the leaders here or used just the right number of young ogres to distract the orcs long enough for the engineer to reach the signpost." Also make it clear that heavy losses are both expected and survivable (in terms of future scenarios), if that's the case.
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