Scenario Review: SoF 9 - Caverns of Flame

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Scenario Review: SoF 9 - Caverns of Flame

Post by Content Feedback »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
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Grumpy
Posts: 5
Joined: November 6th, 2008, 10:30 pm

Re: Scenario Review: SoF 9 - Caverns of Flame

Post by Grumpy »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
- Normal / 1.4-1
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
- 2
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
- It was a bit confusing tbh partly. At the point when it said "kill all the elves before any of them escapes" text... I first thought it meant I had to kill it :shock: . Well, obviously, it didn't end up that way and I only killed like 2 of them. :P
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
- Dialog is clear and average in terms of interesting
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
- This scenario was pretty easy. So, there's really no major challenge.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
- 8 - Though easy, it was a fun way to end the campaign.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
- Maybe change the wordings on the req quote i said above... But i'm not sure how it would be put either... After I did it, it was quite clear... Maybe just "don't let any elves escape" or something like that?
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
- I had to load once b/c I wasn't sure what I was to do... LoL, i tried to take over one of the orc/troll's settlement. haha. And elves then pinned me from the back. Guess that was stupid of me tho.
(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
- I don't know WML
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Turuk
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Re: Scenario Review: SoF 9 - Caverns of Flame

Post by Turuk »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Lord (Hardest) 1.4.6

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
3. I have an army of level 3 dwarves. A few paltry level 2 orcs and trolls are no challenge. I love thunderers as well, so the units in the middle were wiped out pretty quickly.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Crystal.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Probably one of the best ones in this campaign. Feels like a last stand, the caverns are coming down around you, the lava is building, trolls are after you, the elves have caught up to you. Good stuff.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Watching the trolls kill all of the elves for me. In seriousness, none.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
4. The concept is good, but if a player is smart he can race quickly to the middle and then trigger the switch so that the trolls move out to kill the elves. If he is even smarter, he can do what I did and wait until the elves are just in far enough so that they are hit from the front and rear, and therefore the orcs/trolls and elves are more interested in each other and leave you well enough alone.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Make the enemies come after you as well.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
None.

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
I like the eruption change in the map, as well as the collapsing of the walls for the trolls.
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rykus
Posts: 16
Joined: January 11th, 2009, 9:37 am

Re: Scenario Review: SoF 9 - Caverns of Flame

Post by rykus »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.4.6
Medium

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
6
Trolls did most of the work for me, but I took a few good smacks before igniting the volcano and letting the hordes pour over the elves

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
The intro dialog was a bit repetitious, saying there was no way out about 3 different times.
But the last part was great. There was a bit of an epic feel to the hordes of enemies and the volcano falling apart, and the sacrifice to keep the scepter safe

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Finding the glyph and waiting to use it. I restarted a couple of times before I had it. My first attempt, I split my forces in half to search more ground, and got STOMPED

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8 - really cool feel to this one.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Maybe a slightly larger map - but I realize how much of a pain that would have been.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Just my own mistakes - splitting forces to search the cave and setting off the volcano way too soon.

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
n/a
Javelin
Posts: 2
Joined: March 26th, 2009, 12:25 pm

Re: Scenario Review: SoF 9 - Caverns of Flame

Post by Javelin »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.6
Medium
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
3
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Pretty clear, difficult to understand the directive about killing the elves. It seemed impossible with dozens of trolls inbetween, but I guess they did the job.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Very good, epic and heroic.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
No real challenge, I lost a lof of dwarves but found the rune and the trolls took care of the rest.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
The amount of trolls was a little over the top, It would have been fun to help them with the elves a little.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
After the volcano outburst when everyone dies and the griffin says "I'll go now" (or something like that) Wesnoth crashes out. Happens everytime, even when i tried to replay the scenario. Everything works fine up until the griffins line.

The griffin, having scouted across the lavapassage to the west ended up in the middle of the elves when they appeared. Reload and avoid to scout.

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
n/a
LDiCesare
Posts: 1
Joined: March 30th, 2009, 8:34 pm

Re: Scenario Review: SoF 9 - Caverns of Flame

Post by LDiCesare »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Normal, version 1.6

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very murky. The first objective is to explore as much as possible. So I sent the griffon over the lava to explore passageways I couldn't walk into. Time to get him back, he was blocked by elves. Since he shouldn't die, the opening objective proved very bady worded. If you do explore, you lose. You actually have to run straight forward, which I would have done without this objective.
More problems later on as it's not clear at all where to stand in order to save the sceptre but that may be a bug, see answer to (8).

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Quite clear although it's a bit repetitive.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Understanding that you're just supposed to run straight and not explore as much as possible as you are told to.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7. Good.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Don't say you have to explore when you should not, make win condition more clear.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Actually, the game systematically crashes for me (bug 13296). This doesn't let me finish the scenario.

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
Sorry, don't know and didn't check.
silent
Posts: 244
Joined: February 20th, 2009, 5:53 am

Re: Scenario Review: SoF 9 - Caverns of Flame

Post by silent »

I was rather disappointed with the last 2 scenarios in this campaign. The dragon didn't come near me and it was far too easy to run straight down the road, slaying weak orcs in my path and the see elves trapped by loads of great trolls

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Dwarven Steelclad (medium I think) 1.4.7
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2. Straight down. a few sacrificial scouts will show you side passages = death
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
clear enough, you need to explore to find the volcano glyph
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Pretty good. Poor dwarves must make a last stand by slaughtering everyone in a most suicidal kind of way. Good heroic last stand
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
nothing.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
2. The only reason this isn't a 1 is because I like the twist that most of the heroes die
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Some stronger opposition please
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
no
(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
I don't know WML
sw_emigre
Posts: 38
Joined: August 10th, 2009, 10:17 pm

Re: Scenario Review: SoF 9 - Caverns of Flame

Post by sw_emigre »

[quote="Mythological"](1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
medium, 1.6.4

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
1 or 10. I think there's a bug... see my problem below

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
3. I didn't really know what to do but move forward and try to hang near the glyph.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
2
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
see below
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
1. Even if I can figure out the bug, it's still pretty low. Most of the beginning scenarios were much better!
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Well, there's not much to do in the last 3 scenarios, really.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
So I get to turn 11, and the volcano erupts, and EVERY square is melted, and Krawg says "Me all alone", and then the program quits...not "The game has ended", but the whole program quits. Happened 3 times. Twice I had my main dwarf on the glyph, and the other 2 crowns right next to him, third time we were all adjacent to the glyph. Only three spots that didn't melt are the three cave wall pillars near the glyph.

So as they say, fugghetabadit.
xanthan
Posts: 12
Joined: December 20th, 2009, 5:03 pm

Re: Scenario Review: SoF 9 - Caverns of Flame

Post by xanthan »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
normal 1.6.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5, except for the end

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Extremely unclear. It seems like I'm supposed to go out the exit at the bottom of the map, but nothing happened when I got there except all my characters bunch up at the bottom, and then we die when the volcano goes off. All the elves are dead. From reading elsewhere in the forums, it appears that you are not supposed to be able to exit, and that we all die, win or lose. Why then is this not made apparent? Why does there appear to be an exit?

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Interesting, but not clear at all. The dialog implies that we have to go through the exit to win, but apparently this is not possible. Very confusing.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Not being able to leave by the exit.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
1 with this problem (bug?), 8 otherwise.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Fix the bug, or if it's not a bug make it clearer what is going on.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
I tried several times to get around this problem, but it always ends the same way.

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
SagSchlahne
Posts: 6
Joined: December 12th, 2009, 9:23 pm

Re: Scenario Review: SoF 9 - Caverns of Flame

Post by SagSchlahne »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Normal, Version 1.7.13 aka 1.8-beta6

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2, for a couple of reasons i will tell later.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear, nothing to complain about.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
I liked it, it was well written and fit into the story.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Getting my hereos to the safe hexes near the rune.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7. I like seeing those stupid elves gatting slain by the trolls and in the end everything burning :D

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I liked it as it was. Maybe give the trolls some dialogue, i can imagine they are not very happy when some dwarves and elves enter their place and burn it ;)

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No.

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be
documented better?
I don't know about WML, but when I started the scenario an error message about an unknowm unit type occured when my gryphon rider from the last scenario spawned. I had to be quick and used Ctrl+S to save the game and reload it before he was spawned. This seemed to have caused that the orcish guards near the rune did not spawn and I could easily walk through, without any difficulties.
shadowblack
Posts: 368
Joined: April 15th, 2010, 3:03 pm

Re: Scenario Review: SoF 9 - Caverns of Flame

Post by shadowblack »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.8.2, Steelclad (Challenging)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
Initially 8, but after I reached the glyph and the trolls and elves started killing each other it went down to 6

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Very interesting.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Avoiding too many casualties until I reach the glyph (since I went for it directly and only slowed down the trolls with expendable units).

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
No changes.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No, fortunately.
You are a Dark Adept: You immerse yourself in the dark arts... potentially with great rewards...
monochromatic
Posts: 1549
Joined: June 18th, 2009, 1:45 am

Re: Scenario Review: SoF 9 - Caverns of Flame

Post by monochromatic »

Mythological wrote:(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Normal 1.8.4
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
1 - didn't even need to wait. I had more than enough troops and un
Washing the trolls just spell the elves' demise.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Maybe mentioning something about finding the source of the volcano?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Better.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
None.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
2 - a little anti-climatic.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Make those actually a challenge.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Nope.
(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
Didn't check.
All in all, this is a fun campaign, but suffers from a somewhat odd storyline, and a disspointing last 2 scenarios. It was good in the beginning, but lost it at the end. But the gameplay was nice, and the maps were well made. Check out my full review in my blog (link in my sig).
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Maiklas3000
Posts: 532
Joined: June 23rd, 2010, 10:43 am

Re: Scenario Review: SoF 9 - Caverns of Flame

Post by Maiklas3000 »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Most difficult; 1.8.4

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8. It's tough to assign a number. But I can't say it was easy, but it's hard to avoid the lava, not knowing where it will go next, and by the end, my forces were so wounded that I could not have held out much longer.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Objective: explore as much of the cave as possible?! If you try to do that as quickly as possible, you wind up fighting Trolls all over the place. And it doesn't seem to be a real objective. Maybe the objective should be "Find the magical trigger for the volcano".

Later, we're not supposed to allow Elves to escape, but that implies there is an exit for them, which I did not see. I guess maybe the exit straight up, over the glyph, out the mouth of the volcano? Also, I was not sure which hexes would be safe from the lava. (It turned out, none were in the end, but I mean before that.)

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Thursagan: "We should keep going. Remember what Khrakrahs said, about this being a volcano? I think we should try to cause it to erupt. It will kill all the elves, and we might be able to find a safe place so the lava doesn't kill us."
Me: "This sounds... ridiculous."
Rugnur: "This sounds... plausible."
Me: "Argh."
Thursagan: "I have a suspicion that there is an opening somewhere near here than leads to the surface. Somewhere near there, there is probably a magic object of some kind that will cause the lava to flow."
Me: "Yes, of course, that is how all volcanoes work."

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The main challenge was holding off Elves+Dwarves, Trolls, and Orcish Warriors on three different fronts, while having no access to healing facilities. Additionally, I was always paranoid about the lava. I was afraid to put Dwarvish Lords near the lava, since I didn't realize this was the last scenario.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Maybe make the top tunnel wider, so that the Elves can't hold off the Trolls for so many turns with just a couple of Avengers.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Surprisingly, no.

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
Rugnur: "These orcs appear to be guarding something."
Thursagan: "It is probably the magical object. Attack them!"

This dialog was never triggered for me.

* * *

All in all, the campaign was really pretty good, with some unusual scenarios requiring unusual tactics, which I like. None of the scenarios were broken, in my experience. However, the dialog may be the worst of any mainline campaign. It suffers from being childish. For Krawg, I suggest making him completely incomprehensible at all times, while having the other characters semi-repeat what he says. This dialog in Caverns of Flame comes close:

Krawg: "Krawg sme' o'cz in iz 'ave!"
Thursagan: "Indeed, there may be orcs lurking here. We should beware of them."

But I would change Krawg's line to something like "Krawg tah kree kah kah!"

* * *

If you watch the following replay, I suggest at least 2x acceleration under preferences.
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Thrash
Posts: 223
Joined: June 25th, 2010, 1:54 pm

Re: Scenario Review: SoF 9 - Caverns of Flame

Post by Thrash »

Overall this was a whacky campaign. The storyline, with years passing at certain points and strange elven-dwarven alliances, never really came across as realistic. There were some interesting scenarios in terms of strategy. Dialog was verbose. The overall effect on me was I started ignoring the storyline and just fighting the fights. So I respect what the campaign designed was doing, but it just wasn't my cup of tea.

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

1.8.4, Hard

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

7, I think. I guess I succeeded...

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Not very.

First "explore the caves" - I never know what that means. It seems like the real first object is to find the glyph and set off the volcano, which I managed to stumble into finally by luck. (I see in the WML the intent is for that to become the objective, but a bug keeps that from triggering.)

Then "Kill all the elves before they escape" .... first, it's not clear how they could escape. If they can escape back north, they could walk out and given there are a horde of level 3 trolls and dwarves between me and them, there isn't a damn thing I can do about it. Fortunately they don't seem interested in escaping but instead throwing themselves at the huge army of trolls who are happy to sit back and crush them.

I thin the actual objective here is "survive until you die"? "Outlive the elves"? Honestly, I'm not sure what I was doing once the volcano went off.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Uh, I have no idea how to answer that. This campaign has some interesting scenarios but the storyline and dialog is just whacky.

It was a while before I realized Thursagan has the Spectre. Yeah, in retrospec it seemed obvious, but a hint would help (I harken back to HttT, with some dialog talking about crisping orcs after the Sceptre is found).

It wasn't clear to me Krawg escape, I thought he died too.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Getting out of the four-way &%$*-fest you find yourself in, with elves and dwarves from the north and orcs/trolls from the S, W, and E. I managed to break through to the east and get myself down that passage, otherwise, I'm not sure I would have survived.

Otherwise, just generally figuring out what to do.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

4. More confusing than fun.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Clarifying the objectives would go a long way.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Amazingly, no. I don't understand how.

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?

"These orcs appear to be guarding something." - never triggered for me. Would have helped.

"#triggering the volcano" - more one-line comments like these summarizing event would help.
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dahlia
Posts: 3
Joined: September 10th, 2010, 3:24 pm

Re: Scenario Review: SoF 9 - Caverns of Flame

Post by dahlia »

Content Feedback wrote:(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.8.4, hard

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5, but only because I misunderstood the level. (See below.)
Replaying it with an understanding was a 1.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Not very.
Like other commenters, I found "explore" puzzling.
Also, I didn't expect the huge army of troll warriors, so I figured I had to kill off the elves myself before setting off the glyph. This actually isn't a bad thing, though... it makes the level more fun.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Meh.
In general, the dialog in this campaign suffers from too high a click-to-content ratio.
The barely-intelligible gryphon was funny, though.
Also, there was something very funny about killing off every hostile unit on the level and having the dwarves sit around going "Well, we're trapped and it's hopeless, I guess we have to kill ourselves now." Should be a Monty Python routine.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The first time through I ran into a bug... it turns out that if you kill all the elves first, and then set off the glyph, the scenario never actually ends. Oops.
Tactically, it was pretty trivial... charged straight south, ran right over the orc guards, blocked the passages with L3 runemasters, and sat tight while the elves, dwarves, orcs and trolls killed each other. Then mopped up.
The lack of villages in the south was a problem, but with lots of troops and an infinite turn limit I just waited a VERY LONG TIME to heal up my units.
[Incidentally, having now played the Elf and the Dwarf campaigns, I'm really enjoying the tactical difference that comes of Elves having cheap healers and Dwarves having no healers.]

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
Hard to say. The first time through, killing everybody in sight, was fun... especially without any villages at first.
The second time... watching them all fight each other is entertaining, but mostly I prefer to actually *do* something in scenarios.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Fix the bug so that killing all the elves doesn't make the scenario unwinnable.
Make it more of a tactical challenge. My suggestion is to have three different runes, one by each enemy keep, and require having a unit on each one to trigger the volcano (like in scenario 2).

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
See above.

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
N/A
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