Scenario Review: SoF 9 - Caverns of Flame

Feedback for the mainline campaign Sceptre of Fire (not to be confused with the Heir to the Throne scenario of the same name.)

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Balroth
Posts: 15
Joined: September 20th, 2018, 7:14 pm

Re: Scenario Review: SoF 9 - Caverns of Flame

Post by Balroth » September 27th, 2018, 2:34 pm

Made an campaign-wide feedback for this, I think it's more helpful than feedback on seperate scenarios viewtopic.php?f=6&t=48884 (reposting it on SoF 1 - A Bargain is Struck)

LordWolfDan
Posts: 216
Joined: September 30th, 2018, 7:31 am

Re: Scenario Review: SoF 9 - Caverns of Flame

Post by LordWolfDan » December 17th, 2018, 8:34 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

- 1.14.5, Normal

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

- 7

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

- Kinda clear. At first I thought I had to get rid of elves myself. Seeing how lava is doing its' job, I didn't bother.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

- Very impressive! Despite having some "eh" moments in the campaign, Rugnur's last stand, sacrifice and the outcome of both hammer of Thursagan and Sceptre of Fire is all well done! Along with "Liberty" and "Dead Water", this has to be one of the best endings of Wesnoth

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

- Keeping Rugnur and Thursagan alive after stepping on the glyph

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

- 7

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

- Can't think of any

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

- Had to move Rugnur and Thursagan on a safer spot after they were roasted by lava before the erruption happened

devavrata
Posts: 105
Joined: August 30th, 2012, 8:59 pm

Re: Scenario Review: SoF 9 - Caverns of Flame

Post by devavrata » September 27th, 2019, 1:07 am

Content Feedback wrote:
March 11th, 2008, 11:28 pm
(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Battle for Wesnoth 1.8.3, Easy, Battle for Wesnoth 1.10.7 Medium, Battle for Wesnoth 1.12.5 Hard
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
Achieving the objectives is dead easy - just running straight south, fighting the six units that are guarding the glyph, stepping on it, surviving for six turns. Winning the scenario is impossible. And not because the game doesn't offer you a way to win, but because it is scripted that you lose - there is no way around it.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Obviously, misleading. Following my objectives got all of my units killed except Krawg. Was this my objective, really? I can kill all of the elves, but then nothing happens. The only way to arrive to the end of the scenario, and the campaign, is by activating the glyph. Why would I do that? I agree with dahlia:
there was something very funny about killing off every hostile unit on the level and having the dwarves sit around going "Well, we're trapped and it's hopeless, I guess we have to kill ourselves now."
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
About the campaign in general, I agree with Thrash: Whacky campaign, storyline never came across and was mostly ignored, some strategically interesting scenarios. About the scenario in particular, the dialogue is ridiculous. Are we starting a volcanic eruption before we find a way out, really?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Mainly, the 26 level-3 elves that appear on turn 4. On the other hand, getting your entire army recalled at the start is a nice surprise. My typical campaign strategy is what I call "level-3 hoarding", levelling up units up to level 3, then abstain from recalling them again so I can level up other lower-level units instead -hopefully, by the final scenario which is typically a great battle, I would have a lot of level-3 units, so many that I couldn't afford to recall them all... and then, on this campaign, I got the wish of having them all.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
0. This is a game, not a story. Players must have freedom enough to change the outcome. Players ought to get a chance to win. Specially, taking into account that you can be victorious in battle.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Contrary to what the scenario designer thinks, losing is not fun. An unwinnable scenario is a deception, a trap in disguise, a mockery of a game. Should I have wanted a story with a predetermined ending, I would have picked up a book or a film.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Yes, the misleading objectives. First the objective is to explore the cave. OK. Then I find the glyph and the objective changes to go to the glyph. OK. I do it, and then the objective changes to kill all of the elves before they leave the caves. The time is tight, on hard difficulty there are only five turns available, then at the sixth turn an image of an elf appears warning of the imminent volcanic eruption and calling for all the elves to leave the caves, and on the seventh turn the eruption starts and everybody dies. So, I got to think I was losing (my units) because the elves managed to leave the caves on time, so I should manage to kill them all before that sixth turn... I restarted, I managed to do it, and then... death anyway. Killing the elves earlier would not lead to victory, but only to an earlier eruption and death. I even experimented by activating the glyph when there's only one elf left, and then kill it immediately... and, sure enough, immediately the eruption starts.

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octalot
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Re: Scenario Review: SoF 9 - Caverns of Flame

Post by octalot » September 27th, 2019, 11:03 am

Would it help to show a narrator message (or the objectives dialog) after the eruption, saying the expected victory condition has happened, and to press "end scenario" for the epilogue?

Konrad2
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Re: Scenario Review: SoF 9 - Caverns of Flame

Post by Konrad2 » September 27th, 2019, 12:17 pm

Perhaps the elves generating event from TSG 8a could be tweaked and added here, so that noone can complain that this scenario is winnable? (Just to drive the point home that this is not an openworld campaign or RPG.)

EDIT:
Perhaps turn it off once the glyph is activated.

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