Scenario Review: NR 12 - Get the Gold

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batoonike
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Re: Scenario Review: NR 12 - Get the Gold

Post by batoonike » March 24th, 2012, 8:50 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Nigthmare (wesnoth 1.8.6)
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2. Complited it on turn 6/25, using 5 recalled dwarven lords and starting units to melt my way through orc ranks to the leader. The distance is really short so there is no way they can stop the elite forces. Wand of justice + mage of lights + great mage + ancient lich move 2-3 hexes per round through wall of orcs.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
So there is some elf who dies very fast, sometimes on round 2. It's cool that the elf is separated from my army (especially considering the next mission) but she should start with the same gold as Tallin! does. She can't get almost any units for the 100 gold, considering opponents. Of course that doesn't matter if the player just fries it's way through orcs really fast but generally it sounds like too little.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Can I beat it 4 turns or 5?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6, relatively much fun still.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I don't know what's the point of this scenario. It is fine as it is, if I am supposed to be abled to finish it fast. If it's not supposed to be like that, making distance between keeps longer and allowing orc to hire level 3 units would help. Also the blue elf sometimes dies on round 2, which is kinda stupid.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No

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taptap
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Re: Scenario Review: NR 12 - Get the Gold

Post by taptap » July 24th, 2012, 8:44 pm

I was fearing badly because I read this thread, but giving advice to the allied AI to play defensively and protect (nothing in particular), which results in a "protecting .", they did the rare feat of not suiciding in the water and in fact killed almost all units that made it across the river. Sisal had quite a lot of losses but all units admiringly stayed in the castle or forest, some of them even survived. What would help is having him not only recruit 1) L2 units, 2) giving less priority to captains (which is odd given he doesn't recruit L1). I know the AI enemies do the same recruiting mistakes but they have much more gold. The orcish leader was attracted by my selected quick dwarf lords that were already closing in on the keep on turn 5 and he was dead the turn after. A mixed strong drake groups was already in position to save Sisal if there would be any need. Turned out pretty easy - though this was possible only with the early finish in Eastern Flank.

I hilariously overrecruited (starting with 600 something gold, wasting away about 400 of it) and even did things like ulfs with L4 leadership which I wanted to try at least once. The odd mistake of giving you the early finish bonus x3 occurs here as well, but doesn't matter anymore when there are 10.000 gold on offer.

P.S. Being able to recruit L2 units for the elves you control feels wrong.
I am a Saurian Skirmisher: I'm a real pest, especially at night.

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Wesbane
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Re: Scenario Review: NR 12 - Get the Gold

Post by Wesbane » July 31st, 2012, 6:14 pm

taptap wrote:I was fearing badly because I read this thread, but giving advice to the allied AI to play defensively and protect (nothing in particular), which results in a "protecting .", they did the rare feat of not suiciding in the water and in fact killed almost all units that made it across the river. Sisal had quite a lot of losses but all units admiringly stayed in the castle or forest, some of them even survived.
Sorry to disappoint you, but this is not due to your actions or any AI improvements. This scenario was modified at 24th October 2010 by beetlenaut. Simply AI was told to avoid water and sand tiles so now Sisal troops will never cross river – it's not depends on battle situation or issued commands. Also more gold was given to the allied AI side on all difficulty settings but easy – in this case gold amount was cut down a bit.
Actually there are many posts describing how tremendous impact this feature has on gameplay... So turning this options in something useful would require attaching to them scripted events that would alter AI behavior or/and game situation – like in DW in Slavers scenario. Where it is possible to trigger an event. Otherwise in terms of scenario design its really not worth to bother.

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taptap
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Re: Scenario Review: NR 12 - Get the Gold

Post by taptap » July 31st, 2012, 6:34 pm

I noticed in other scenarios that instructions to play defensive/offensive, protect or defeat someone do in fact work out to a certain degree, even if they apparently are not sufficient to stop AI allies to go bathing. But however implemented, the changes add tremendously to the scenario. So why should I be disappointed? This scenario works out fine with the change. Hamel in the final is the biggest remaining AI behaviour concern, but as the final is pretty easy having a challenge like babysitting Hamel there is quite ok. (Eastern Flank was the climactic battle I realized after finishing the campaign, and Infested Caves the most fun one.)
I am a Saurian Skirmisher: I'm a real pest, especially at night.

Alez
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Re: Scenario Review: NR 12 - Get the Gold

Post by Alez » September 16th, 2012, 11:20 am

1 Hard
2 9
3 Yes
4 Yes
5 Eastern flank
6 8
7 nothing really :)
8 it was hard in general and in general the problems with the gold (see later)
9 sorry, don't know WML

Excuse my poor english and short answers. I had a major problem (actually my gf) since saving Sisal got only 500 in gold instead of the 10000 promised. Is this a bug or is there something we're doing wrong? Thanks a lot!

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Wesbane
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Re: Scenario Review: NR 12 - Get the Gold

Post by Wesbane » September 18th, 2012, 9:18 pm

Alez wrote:I had a major problem (actually my gf) since saving Sisal got only 500 in gold instead of the 10000 promised. Is this a bug or is there something we're doing wrong?
This is not a bug. Gained gold amount is what you would had at beginning of Settling Disputes scenario if it wasn't left in Knalga since carrying it would slow down your forces too much. This value is dependent on how well you performed in Pursuit and how much gold you spent in Old Friend. Since there is no minimal value of gold that must be retrieved from Malifors dungeon if all money will be spent starting gold amount from Old Friend will be used according to difficulty. This is not gold you actually start with! Hence it is possible to get mere 250 on easy and 80 for nightmare. If you manage to get it back later it's divided equally between all player controlled sides in Showdown and added to their resources.
Excluding gaming skill the problem if any is caused by this that campaign was build on assumption that everyone will play it perfectly although various victory shapes are allowed. What states for poor concept execution – nicely thought, but not so nicely made.
Details:
However it is not a problem since in Northern Rebirth you can do many bizarre, unforeseen by author things like completing campaign with only one white mage of two. If you do not rescue second one. What result mostly in story inconsistency. Thing like this occurs rarely since majority of players, play it straight forward. That is keep alive all characters they get. And trying to gather everything what is available in campaign. Simply playing best they can. What is how every game is played.

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taptap
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Re: Scenario Review: NR 12 - Get the Gold

Post by taptap » September 24th, 2012, 3:57 pm

It is simply that Pursuit isn't very well adapted to first-time unspoiled play. (When I played it the first time I ended with a mere 2000 gold, because I happily overrecruited (not knowing that I will find that much gold later and because I felt I have to bring some more units in position at the back entrance - which took ages.) But it is very hard to do anything about it, as this would require a completely different scenario.
I am a Saurian Skirmisher: I'm a real pest, especially at night.

Alez
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Re: Scenario Review: NR 12 - Get the Gold

Post by Alez » September 24th, 2012, 4:01 pm

Thanks a lot to all, it's much clearer now

pentolino
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Re: Scenario Review: NR 12 - Get the Gold

Post by pentolino » June 17th, 2013, 9:00 pm

Content Feedback wrote: (1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
1 - easy, version 1.8.6.11 (android)
2 - 1 if you just wanna defeat the orcs (just use your veterans and special characters), 9 and mainly quite a lot of luck if you wanna save the mad swimmer (depending on how unlucky the trolls are and how foolish is the orc leader to come close enough to your ancient lich)
3 - not very clear, it should be clearer that you get the gold only if save the mad elf
4 - good
5 - saving the swimmer (I only managed it by killing the orc leader by turn 5)
6 - 4 (it's frustrating when you lose even if you did everything right)
7 - don't let elvish leader go in the water in the first few turns
8 - none, just replayed to save the elf
9 - N/A

Knoedel
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Joined: May 2nd, 2014, 7:37 pm

Re: Scenario Review: NR 12 - Get the Gold

Post by Knoedel » May 2nd, 2014, 7:42 pm

This scenario is really mysterious to me. Just because it doesn't exist.
I finished Eastern Flank and then started Showdown. So I don't have the opportunity to get my gold back and have to start Showdown with 100 gold.
I don't think theres any chance to win this.
Does anybody know why I can't play this scenario?

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Adamant14
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Re: Scenario Review: NR 12 - Get the Gold

Post by Adamant14 » May 2nd, 2014, 9:17 pm

Knoedel wrote:Does anybody know why I can't play this scenario?
You only play this scenario when Eryssa is alive, otherwise you skip to the next scenario 'Showdown' .
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Knoedel
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Re: Scenario Review: NR 12 - Get the Gold

Post by Knoedel » May 3rd, 2014, 12:21 pm

Thanks for your answer!
So I have to play all scenarios starting from Settling Disputes again.

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shadow12
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Re: Scenario Review: NR 12 - Get the Gold

Post by shadow12 » January 6th, 2016, 8:22 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Challenging, 1.0.4
The northern elves had 400 starting gold while each Tallin and Krash had 1800 gold.
Finished turn 7/35
About 3,000 carry over gold each. It must have divided the recovered 9,000 gold, which is good.
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) 4.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives? "Defeat the Orcs'" meant kill the leader.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario? Good. The part about finding the dead elves on the battle scene was sad, but it adds depth to the story.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
My major challenge was keeping the drakes and gryphons alive in the river fighting trolls. I lost a couple of gryphons and a L2 Drake.
I have a bad habit of recalling too many. The map was a little crowded, but the scenario was over quickly.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10) 8. I enjoyed playing it.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun? Cannot think of any.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario? No.

My strategy was to send assistance to the southern elves with fast Drake gliders down the left side of the map and Gryphons on the right side. They helped distract the enemy from going after Sisal and her wounded troops. For the northern elves, I recruited Heros, Rangers and Riders. The Rangers and Heros did really well in battle. Sisal was still alive on turn 7 when we defeated the orc leader, but her troops were hit pretty hard.
Sometimes life unexpectedly throws a Troll or a nasty Queen Naga in your path.

BillytheBabyGoat
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Joined: December 21st, 2016, 12:39 am

Re: Scenario Review: NR 12 - Get the Gold

Post by BillytheBabyGoat » December 21st, 2016, 2:21 am

Content Feedback wrote:(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
1. Nightmare.

2. 5.

3. Clear, try and save Sisal and kill leader, easy enough.

4. Clear enough.

5. Getting to Sisal fast enough took a very concerted push from Krash, killing the leader took a hard push from my elf leader, and holding the attention of all the troops was very difficult with Tallin's army. First turn I recall/recruited leveled/level 1 gliders as Krash and sent them across the river south and then east without taking any villages; they got to Sisal in time to hold off the enemies. I ended up sending Krash with them, which was good because his presence ended up being necessary (All the other drakes got wiped out right before I finished). With the elf leader I recruited a full keep of level 2 rangers with ambush and sent them around to the west, south, and then east to come up at the side of the enemy leaders keep. Once he finished recruiting and his units were all dispersed, I moved them in and surrounded him; the extra elves were used to screen in the forests to prevent his troops from getting back to him, and in the second round of this assault he died. With Tallin I first put Sisal on defensive, then when Krash arrived I set "Protect Krash" as an additional behavior. This seemed to keep Sisal's units from diving into the water to attack stuff, which they had been doing previously with just defensive as a behavior. While all this went on Tallin recalled a few dwarven steelclads and fighters and some level 2-3 bandits/trappers. These played very cautiously to fight some of the orc enemies, pulling them back into my own base to stretch their forces out away from the leader. I leveled all of the steelclads and a few of the fighters, with heavy casualties in my bandits/trappers.

6. 8. This was a fun one; I also got fortunate though in that Sisal's side didn't do the stupid things I typically expect from friendly AI, and so her survival didn't end up being an issue. I was happy that the assassination ended up working, and ended up getting about 4000 gold for each of my sides for the final mission with the early finish and from not recruiting/recalling too many troops.

7. None really, went fine.

8. None, went fairly smoothly.

Thrash
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Re: Scenario Review: NR 12 - Get the Gold

Post by Thrash » March 10th, 2018, 4:28 am

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

1.12.6, Normal

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

5 to figure out the right tactics to keep Sisal alive.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

The importance of keeping Sisal alive wasn't clear to me. Putting that in the Objectives would help.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Clear.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Keeping Sisal alive. The first time I played despite being set to Defensive, he ended up on the northernmost point of his fort with trolls on three sides and died on turn 5.

The second time I tried as the wiki suggests - sending gliders and gryphons down the edges. The gliders made it and helped. The gryphons got nowhere close due to enemy.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

4. I'm not a big fan of keeping AI allies alive.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

I'd rather have control of Sisal and a stronger enemy.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Yeah, see above.
Attachments
NR-Get_the_Gold_replay-1.gz
Sisal eats it on turn 5
(122.91 KiB) Downloaded 49 times
NR-Get_the_Gold_replay.gz
Take 2, keeping Sisal alive.
(123.68 KiB) Downloaded 41 times

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