Wesnoth Tutorial: Part I

Feedback for the game tutorial (only Wesnoth 1.1.2 and later.)

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

User avatar
Content Feedback
Battle for Wesnoth
Location: #wesnoth @ chat.freenode.net
Contact:

Wesnoth Tutorial: Part I

Post by Content Feedback » March 11th, 2008, 9:35 am

Unlike other scenario reviews, reviews of the tutorial are informal. So post your thoughts about the first part of the tutorial here, especially if you are new to Wesnoth.
Mainline Campaigns: Scenario FeedbackDevelopment & Overall Feedback
User-made Add-ons: Feedback

User avatar
Anym
Posts: 7
Joined: April 2nd, 2008, 6:27 pm
Contact:

Re: Scenario Review - Tutorial Part I

Post by Anym » April 2nd, 2008, 7:47 pm

No reviews so far? OK, more weight to my opinion, I guess. :wink:

Anyway, I'm new to Wesnoth just finished the tutorial and here are my thoughts:

The scenario does a good job a teaching the basics of movement, attacking, healing, recruiting.

The portrait graphics don't always match the units' sprites, for example the colour of Delfador's robe or the shape of Elvish Fighters' blades. (This seems pretty obvious, so I assume it's known and tolerated, but as I wasn't completely sure, I decided to point it out, just in case.)

The graphics for the quintain look a bit ugly and aren't up to the standard of the other units in this scenario. As it is the fourth unit most new players are probably going to see, this mars the (otherwise very positive) first impression a little. (This is very subjective, of course.)

"Hitpoints" is spelled inconsistently: usually "hitpoints", but at least once "hit points" and once "hp". While it probably is obvious that the latter stands for "hitpoints", it might be a good idea to introduce the abbreviation, i.e. having somebody say "...hitpoints (HP)" before using it alone, as is done for "XP". Seeing it as "hp" instead of "HP" looked also a bit strange to me.

Similarly, some uses of colons as punctuation marks struck me as a bit odd, for example "Yes: it's a magical quintain."

It's quite possible to destroy the quintain by turn 4, but even if you do, Delfador will tell you to "End your turn, then attack again."

Once you do destroy the quintain, the Elvish Fighter that destroyed it will report that "The quintain is dead" which strikes me a bit inappropriate, as it wasn't alive in the first place. That fighter also refers to both the player's character and Delfador together as "sirs", no matter whether you picked Konrad or Li'sar.

The latter turns of this scenario contain valuable information, which the second tutorial scenario seems to take for granted, even though I assume a good deal of new players will have skipped them, because once you destroyed one quintain, there doesn't seem much left about "movement, attacking, healing, recruiting" that can be "figured out" by destroying three more. I know I did. I only found out about those bits when reading the .cfg file in order to compose this post.

Sorry for any redundant or misplaced comments. Please tell me if any of these comments should also be reported somewhere else.
I look just like Bobbin Threadbare.

gruush
Posts: 2
Joined: April 1st, 2008, 3:04 pm

Re: Scenario Review - Tutorial Part I

Post by gruush » April 2nd, 2008, 9:42 pm

I just started playing Wesnoth a day or two ago, and went through the tutorial.

In retrospect, one thing that I felt wasn't clear was the fact that scenarios are time-limited. I think there would be benefit in adding something somewhere that says something like this:

"Each scenario has a limited number of turns, indicated by the flag icon in the upper right. If you fail to achieve the scenario objectives in the specified number of turns, you will fail the scenario. Additionally, you receive bonus gold for each turn early that you finish the scenario."

Or something like that.

Additionally, this is more of a general note, but if you fail a scenario due to time limit, it just says "You were defeated!" It might be a little friendlier if that message told you why you were defeated. "You were defeated! (Time limit ran out)" or "You were defeated! (Fred was slain.)"

Anyway, just my n00bie 2 gp.

Gruush

nataS
Posts: 166
Joined: January 28th, 2008, 3:21 pm

Re: Scenario Review - Tutorial Part I

Post by nataS » April 19th, 2008, 8:53 am

I recently played the tutorial again, not because I needed to learn the basics, but because I wanted to know what it teaches new players. I think the tutorial is ok, and has some good humoristic parts that help keeping the players attention. On the other hand there is the "Do you want to keep practicing" popup that comes every time starting at turn four. I think this is both annoying and encourages players to quit instead of ending the tutorial and learn all the basics. Just take it out and as optional alternative point people to the menu option where they can quit the game?

User avatar
theruler
Posts: 26
Joined: February 29th, 2008, 11:01 am

Re: Scenario Review - Tutorial Part I

Post by theruler » April 19th, 2008, 12:16 pm

I totally agree with Satan-Santa-NataS. ;-)

In addition I would report that if you move and attack during the very first hand to hand round with the puppet, instead of attack only (like you should do as explained in the text!), the tutorial is not able to handle the exception (in the following turn you cannot reach the southern village. Only the northern... but the tutorial says that you moved in the wrong space!)

In conclusion:
do not allow to move (insert a rule), or set player's movement to zero in that specific turn.
Or allow the player to withdraw in the northern village.

just my two cents.
Chuck Norris' watch displays only an hour. Yours.

Jozrael
Forum Regular
Posts: 1034
Joined: June 2nd, 2006, 1:39 pm
Location: NJ, USA.

Re: Scenario Review - Tutorial Part I

Post by Jozrael » May 1st, 2008, 5:17 am

I just redownloaded Wesnoth with the new 1.4 branch, and played the Tutorial over just for fun (I want to see -everything-).

I must say: I am very impressed right off the bat. The new graphics and music are excellent.

A criticism:

During an attack screen, units with too much information have their xp (12/24 or whatever) partly 'chopped off'. It significantly mars the screen.

About this scenario, only 2 minor suggestions:

1: The turn that Konrad first recruits, urge him to end his turn in the village so that he can recover more health.

2: If all quintains are defeated, give the player a message implying that he should just wait out the scenario to hear the tips, or BETTER: Just give him the option of hearing all remaining tips, then end the scenario.

Great job guys.

Rapturous
Posts: 19
Joined: January 10th, 2009, 12:05 pm

Re: Scenario Review - Tutorial Part I

Post by Rapturous » January 10th, 2009, 12:29 pm

Excellent first scenario to orient new players. This was a well-structured tutorial that gave me a clear understanding of the basic mechanics.

User avatar
netzakh
Posts: 6
Joined: May 26th, 2009, 2:29 pm

Re: Scenario Review - Tutorial Part I

Post by netzakh » May 26th, 2009, 3:15 pm

Though
Mythological wrote:Unlike the other scenario reviews, the review of the tutorial is informal. So post us your thoughts about the first part of the tutorial here, especially if you are new to wesnoth.
I will follow the more standard
(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
(1) 1.6.2
(2) 1
(3) N/A
(4) clear but see (7)
(5) as to the objectives themselves, none; otherwise, giving all four kills to the same Elvish Fighter, though it was not "major"
(6) appropriate for the very absolute introduction
(7) (i) if Delfador's instructions are exactly followed, it may happen that an E-Fighter ordered to attack the Quintain will do it from water (this was my first experience with BfW, but when I saw that 20% I immediately understood that something is not optimal); (ii) a hint that experience gained here might be useful later can be added - the resulting E-Fighter with 32+/40 XP proved a good reason not to select "No, I think I've got it."

A post-thought: the players gets a message that includes "Note that level 2 units cost you twice as much to support as level 1 units.", which may mislead to a conclusion that a unit's upkeep doubles on every advancement. I propose something like "Note that while each level 1 unit costs you 1 gold per support, each level 2 unit costs 2 gold per turn." This might be further expanded with "Level 2 units may also advance on gaining enough experience, and each level 3 unit costs 3 gold per turn."
Last edited by netzakh on July 15th, 2009, 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Krellja
Posts: 19
Joined: May 11th, 2008, 5:17 pm

Re: Scenario Review - Tutorial Part I

Post by Krellja » May 26th, 2009, 10:48 pm

I play the game in german, so the quotations are only guessed :) I think the tutorial is a very good introduction to BfW. After playing a few campains (Tale of Two Brothers, Southguard, Orcish Incursion and some HTTT) I returned to the tutorial, to try the beforementioned idea of giving an elvish-fighter all the four kills (ok, I rolled bad, so he finished with 26XP).

Two points
  • When the scenario is finished, the game tells that I will start the next scenario with the maximum of a percentage of my current money and the starting money of that next scenario. I think this is the description of the old gold-bonus-rule (Version is 1.6).
  • When I play the scenarion till the turns run out, there are many hints about the game given. Does a player who finishes early also see these hints? Oops, just found this topic twice in the older posts.

moneypossum
Posts: 1
Joined: May 29th, 2009, 4:48 am

Re: Scenario Review - Tutorial Part I

Post by moneypossum » May 29th, 2009, 4:56 am

I play the game in german as well, works pretty well!

User avatar
jaimeastorga2000
Posts: 29
Joined: July 25th, 2009, 12:28 pm

Re: Scenario Review - Tutorial Part I

Post by jaimeastorga2000 » November 15th, 2009, 11:32 pm

Well, I did the tutorial when I first got Wesnoth in version 1.6.4. I would like to start by making one thing clear; the tutorials work. Between this scenario and the next one, I went from knowing nothing about Wesnoth to being reasonably able to hold my own in missions. I've played a lot of turn-based tactics games before, so maybe that helped, but I want to state these tutorials definitely achieve their objectives of introducing the player to the game.

Now, onto the scenario itself. I did this review in version 1.6.5. using Li'sar, but unless I am mistaken the dialogue is virtually the same for both characters.

Elf-land is a good choice of introductory music, beginning with a hint of epic sound and continuing into a soft, graceful welcome that matches the green tiles the map is primarily made of.

The introductory welcome message narration is nice. I think "You are standing in the keep, and your mentor Delfador is on the east side of the river" should be changed to "You are standing in the keep, and your mentor Delfador is waiting for you on the east side of the river." That way it establishes a motivation for the character to move next to Defaldor. Also, the later note about you losing the game if units with crowns die would be better placed here, before the moving begins. It doesn't need the "note" mark, either; it would feel natural here as part of the mechanics narration.

It is good that the message mentions what you will be learning. However, "Destroy a fierce enemy" as an objective is a bit dramatic when you are fighting magical dummies, the last three of which are optional and stand in place until you approach them. "Defeat the enemy" or "Destroy the enemy" might be tried instead.

Good job on explaining selection and movement. However, "Is it time to attack things?" is rather tacky. Something like "Is it time for training?" would be better. When the character says "Have you found an orc for me to fight, huh? A troll?" I assume the intent is to portray him/her as brash and eager, in which case, it succeeded. Once again, though, I think slightly more formal dialogue is in order; for instance "Have you found an orc for me to fight? Or perhaps a troll?"

"You want me to pretend to fight a dummy?" was funny. Good job with that one.

I think Defaldor should move south at this point, before the fighting begins. I know he does it later (I am unsure, but I guess it is to prevent the quintain from attacking him), but there is no explanation for why he does it then. If he does it now, he can mumble something about giving you some space for the practice fight, and it will make his movement feel more natural.

Like above, "The DUMMY gets a turn?" is downright hilarious. Very nice bit of dialogue.

When the player says "The quintain is dead, sirs" that should probably be "sir" (singular) unless she is also addressing the elves, which would be somewhat odd. It should also probably be Defaldor who comments on her gained experience, since he is supposed to be the teacher and she the learner. She could stop after saying the quintain is dead and Defaldor could say something like "Yes, and you have gained some experience. You gain experience through battle..."

It's rather jarring to have Defaldor leave in the middle of the scenario, as it is to have him mention "real work to do" which isn't followed on in either this or the next scenario of the tutorial. Rather I think it would be better to have him stay and say "Now, [name], I will summon a few more dummies to practice with." That way, it can also be him and not the narration which asks you whether you feel comfortable enough to end the scenario or whether you wish to continue practising. Also, "do you wish" would sound slightly better than "do you want" for that question.

An extra turn or two for finishing off the quintains might be good. New players are likely to be overtly cautious, healing their units in villages completely before assaulting the mannequins.

One more thing. It gets annoying to be asked whether one wishes to end the scenario at the end of every turn. At most, it should be asked 3 times. Once at the end of the turn the three extra enemies are summoned (or at the beginning of the next one) and once after each the first two enemies get killed. Or maybe it could just be asked once, when the manequins first appear.
Last edited by jaimeastorga2000 on January 5th, 2010, 11:17 am, edited 2 times in total.

Jozrael
Forum Regular
Posts: 1034
Joined: June 2nd, 2006, 1:39 pm
Location: NJ, USA.

Re: Scenario Review - Tutorial Part I

Post by Jozrael » December 4th, 2009, 7:18 pm

What excellent feedback :).

I agree with everything you said, although I believe Delfador would need a better line (not that you gave a poor one) for his 'motivation to move away from the dummy'.

I hope you continue to give feedback of such quality for later scenarios that you find quibbles with :).

User avatar
Thegoergen
Posts: 43
Joined: July 18th, 2010, 11:57 pm
Location: Estrela - RS

Re: Wesnoth Tutorial: Part I

Post by Thegoergen » October 5th, 2010, 2:04 am

When I played the first time Wesnoth, I played in the tutorial, and it works very well. However, is it the same from the earlier versions? No more options since them?

And... I am a translator, and when I was translating the tutorial I though: Why every string is duplicated, one for the Konrad and one for the Li'sar, if the only modification is the name of character? I think the translation will be much more simple if it had "neutral" strings, or if the name of character saved in a variable (or something of this...).

Well... but the tutorial for players is a very well-monted tutorial, with a crescent difficult level.
Diego Inácio Goergen
Sorry by the English.
Trying to help the translation
I am a nulity in not-Java programming

User avatar
obnoxiousman
Posts: 17
Joined: August 23rd, 2010, 7:50 pm
Location: West of Fort Tahn

Re: Wesnoth Tutorial: Part I

Post by obnoxiousman » October 28th, 2010, 5:16 pm

Good. It helps new players learn how to play, and I play it for fun sometimes :mrgreen: (I have been playing wesnoth for a year now). It doesn't exactly teach strategy, but that's what Part II is for, right?
"Oh, Hamlet, thou hast cleft my heart in twain!" --William (Bill) Shakespeare, Hamlet
I made The Brotherhood of Wesnoth, a super fun (and incomplete) Campaign!

Skaithe
Posts: 25
Joined: July 13th, 2011, 8:41 am

Re: Scenario Review - Tutorial Part I

Post by Skaithe » July 13th, 2011, 11:17 am

jaimeastorga2000 wrote:Well, I did the tutorial when I first got Wesnoth in version 1.6.4. I would like to start by making one thing clear; the tutorials work. Between this scenario and the next one, I went from knowing nothing about Wesnoth to being reasonably able to hold my own in missions. I've played a lot of turn-based tactics games before, so maybe that helped, but I want to state these tutorials definitely achieve their objectives of introducing the player to the game.

Now, onto the scenario itself. I did this review in version 1.6.5. using Li'sar, but unless I am mistaken the dialogue is virtually the same for both characters.

Elf-land is a good choice of introductory music, beginning with a hint of epic sound and continuing into a soft, graceful welcome that matches the green tiles the map is primarily made of.

The introductory welcome message narration is nice. I think "You are standing in the keep, and your mentor Delfador is on the east side of the river" should be changed to "You are standing in the keep, and your mentor Delfador is waiting for you on the east side of the river." That way it establishes a motivation for the character to move next to Defaldor. Also, the later note about you losing the game if units with crowns die would be better placed here, before the moving begins. It doesn't need the "note" mark, either; it would feel natural here as part of the mechanics narration.

It is good that the message mentions what you will be learning. However, "Destroy a fierce enemy" as an objective is a bit dramatic when you are fighting magical dummies, the last three of which are optional and stand in place until you approach them. "Defeat the enemy" or "Destroy the enemy" might be tried instead.

Good job on explaining selection and movement. However, "Is it time to attack things?" is rather tacky. Something like "Is it time for training?" would be better. When the character says "Have you found an orc for me to fight, huh? A troll?" I assume the intent is to portray him/her as brash and eager, in which case, it succeeded. Once again, though, I think slightly more formal dialogue is in order; for instance "Have you found an orc for me to fight? Or perhaps a troll?"

"You want me to pretend to fight a dummy?" was funny. Good job with that one.

I think Defaldor should move south at this point, before the fighting begins. I know he does it later (I am unsure, but I guess it is to prevent the quintain from attacking him), but there is no explanation for why he does it then. If he does it now, he can mumble something about giving you some space for the practice fight, and it will make his movement feel more natural.

Like above, "The DUMMY gets a turn?" is downright hilarious. Very nice bit of dialogue.

When the player says "The quintain is dead, sirs" that should probably be "sir" (singular) unless she is also addressing the elves, which would be somewhat odd. It should also probably be Defaldor who comments on her gained experience, since he is supposed to be the teacher and she the learner. She could stop after saying the quintain is dead and Defaldor could say something like "Yes, and you have gained some experience. You gain experience through battle..."

It's rather jarring to have Defaldor leave in the middle of the scenario, as it is to have him mention "real work to do" which isn't followed on in either this or the next scenario of the tutorial. Rather I think it would be better to have him stay and say "Now, [name], I will summon a few more dummies to practice with." That way, it can also be him and not the narration which asks you whether you feel comfortable enough to end the scenario or whether you wish to continue practising. Also, "do you wish" would sound slightly better than "do you want" for that question.

An extra turn or two for finishing off the quintains might be good. New players are likely to be overtly cautious, healing their units in villages completely before assaulting the mannequins.

One more thing. It gets annoying to be asked whether one wishes to end the scenario at the end of every turn. At most, it should be asked 3 times. Once at the end of the turn the three extra enemies are summoned (or at the beginning of the next one) and once after each the first two enemies get killed. Or maybe it could just be asked once, when the manequins first appear.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I played the tutorial well out of order but still thought it was very well done and not boring in the slightest. In fact, I avoid tutorials because they are usually boring, I wish I played this one before I started on the campaigns. :)

Definitely an option to get rest of tips before exiting scenario would be good.

Post Reply