Scenario Review: DW 12 - Revenge

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Scenario Review: DW 12 - Revenge

Post by Content Feedback » August 21st, 2010, 7:26 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
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alda
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Re: Scenario Review: DW 12 - Revenge

Post by alda » September 15th, 2010, 12:26 pm

This scenario is broken : the id should be 12_Revenge instead of Revenge. As it is now, you can't access to it from previous scenario.

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Re: Scenario Review: DW 12 - Revenge

Post by beetlenaut » September 15th, 2010, 1:52 pm

It's been fixed for 1.9.1. Thanks for the report. For now, renaming the file will make it work.
Campaigns: Dead Water
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Maiklas3000
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Re: Scenario Review: DW 12 - Revenge

Post by Maiklas3000 » November 22nd, 2010, 3:28 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Triton (difficult, nightmare); 1.9.2 plus trunk patch for Brawlers so stun is not permanent. Starting gold was 450.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Kill all enemy leaders, clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Most excellent. I loved the epilogue.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The initial assault in the middle was stressful, and the unexpected appearance of additional necromancers added strain, but was a nice touch of continuity. After the island enemy leader was dispatched, it was smooth sailing.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
9

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Fine as is.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
I had a couple of failures due to strategic mistakes, restarting from start each time.

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
Very good.

* * *

If you watch the following replay, I recommend at least 4x acceleration.
Attachments
DW-Revenge_replay.gz
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Re: Scenario Review: DW 12 - Revenge

Post by Pewskeepski » January 12th, 2011, 3:56 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Normal 1.9.3 (544 gold)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
9

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Great

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
A huge army of Soulless and bats, A army of skeletons which only a handful of my troops could take, And a bunch of shadows. Mal Kevek's army becomes completely invisible at night. And dark sorcerers come later! :augh:

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7.5

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
None

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
I lost a bunch of times. But one particular time I played I ended up killing Mel Daveth and the Death Knight, But didn't have enough soldiers to keep Mal Kevek from taking all my villages and making his army grow. I fought to the last merman. Litterly. The last guy standing was Kai Krellis, But he died just outside of the liches keep, and I restarted.

I won by moving a good sized squad of troops along the east, I killed Mal Kevek and split the squad in two, One half went north and leader assassinated the death knight while the other half joined Kai Krellis and the smaller portion of my army who were defending against Mel daveth and the skeletons. After that, day time came and I smooshed Mel Daveth and the dark sorcerers! Victory!

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
It's excellent except there is no Walkthrough!? Of all the scenarios, this one needs it. Not that it matters because I recently found out that there's one on the wiki, Haven't read it though.

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Re: Scenario Review: DW 12 - Revenge

Post by dsa » January 26th, 2011, 3:36 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Difficult, 1.9.4

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
6, to defend against the first wave is the crucial situation in this scenario, but by taking a defensive position in the northwest, it was doable to keep the important units alive. After the first wave is defeated, the scenario was actually over, because the following enemy "armies" were just too small to be a serious threat.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Especially the final statement about every important loyal unit in the Epilogue is very good.

btw: One minor thing I noticed is, that Tygea has the dextrous trait. This conflicts with the BfW Help, which says, that only elves possess this trait.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Having enough elite units, after I survived the first wave.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
9

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Forbid the recruiting of Necrophages. Often they just stood around and didn't dare to attack. Sometimes they even moved near one of my units and didn't attack, that way preventing an attack from another unit.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No.

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Re: Scenario Review: DW 12 - Revenge

Post by taptap » January 10th, 2012, 11:31 pm

Triton (Difficult), 1.9.13. Large map and suitable campaign end, but indeed easier than some other scenarios in the campaign. 14 losses and around 150 kills. Surviving the first two waves without haste. (1st wave is the nightgaunt, shadow group that force you to keep a close defensive position, 2nd the necromancer/dark sorcerer group.) Defended mainly in the southwest, and a smaller group in the west. As I knew the enemies from scenario 2, I recruited suitable and had no problem. I added plenty of citizens and some other new recruits, those who didn't die levelled. After breaking out of the south it was a one way road, undead on low defense terrain and merfolk with 6 entanglers/netcasters, Inky, Kai Krellis and at that time already 5 diviners, 3 sirenes + the javelineer with the sword, the hoplite with the sceptre, the arcane damage triton... even with the high base income they had no chance. I didn't need the option to recruit priestesses, which is a little odd, considering that I went so long a way to convince her to come with me, but in the end my own forces were strong enough already.

Sometimes shadows in suitable position attack first, and then another unit attacks from the other side. These could have been and should have been backstabs. The arcane resistance device is not really usable in the way described in the walkthrough, it is pretty much wasted on an entangler (dark sorcerers and necromancers will use cold for pretty much the same effect), better give it to someone who might end fighting against wraiths and spectres. The chocobones moved around a little erratically and didn't arrive together.

Thank you for the campaign it was a pleasure.
I am a Saurian Skirmisher: I'm a real pest, especially at night.

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Re: Scenario Review: DW 12 - Revenge

Post by beetlenaut » January 11th, 2012, 12:07 am

I'm surprised you didn't need priestesses. I recruited about six, and would have had a much harder time without them. I can't keep up with the AI changes though. It seems to have been tweaked so that some scenarios that used to work became unplayable, and others got too easy. (Not all in DW of course.)
Campaigns: Dead Water
The Founding of Borstep
Secrets of the Ancients

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PorkSol
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Re: Scenario Review: DW 12 - Revenge

Post by PorkSol » March 21st, 2013, 5:28 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

1.10.5 - Triton - (Nightmare) - No save/load - 658 starting gold(!)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

3 or less.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Fine.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Not getting my leader killed.

I had the following leveled units: (I'll count units that are one experience point from leveling as the next level)

6 Entanglers
6 Diviners (one w/ magic ring)
3 Tritons (one w/ holy water)
3 Sirens
1 Javelineer (w/ flaming sword)
1 Hoplite (w/ storm trident)
----------------------
2 Netcasters
1 Enchantress
1 Priestess
1 Warrior

Plus Keshan, Inky, two Dread Bats and the loyal brawler from slavers, all at max level

I had enough gold to recall everybody and still recruit 2-3 priestesses.

So I could pretty much just move forward and overpower the AI units. I was a bit sloppy but it didn't matter since losses of generic units no longer matter in this final scenario.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

7 - I normally don't enjoy easy scenarios, but it was kind of fun to recall all the units I have leveled up and beat up the undead. It might get boring on a second playthrough however.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

I'm not sure. I found it a bit easy but I did defeat all of the leaders on scenario two, so I had a lot of leveled units. It seems like it could be difficult if people had less gold or fewer leveled units. I can't really make a recommendation without further playtesting, I can only provide one data point.

Overall this was a very well done campaign, but the first two scenarios are expert difficulty, while the rest of the campaign seems to be more intermediate level. I wouldn't make any drastic adjustments though because the harder scenarios are also some of the better ones in the entire game.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Never reloaded or restarted.
Attachments
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Nightmare - 1.10.5 - no save / load
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flammstrudel
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Re: Scenario Review: DW 12 - Revenge

Post by flammstrudel » April 28th, 2013, 5:22 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.10.2 Triton (difficult) – no reloads

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4/10

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Good. The epilogue was well done, you even mentioned Inky, my favorite wesnoth pet.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
None. Expandable priestess/ diviner for the win (Wasn't that the main reason for our epic quest? Getting heaps of cleric meatshields from Tygea?)

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
It's a reasonably epic final fight. Quite easy, but entertaining, you can enjoy sending undead hordes to the bottom of the ocean. Ultimately the scenario is called “Revenge” and not “Desperate Struggle to survive”, isn't it? Verdict: 8/10

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
The AI behavior is a little bit odd. In the beginning you get those three tier 1 units in the ocean. I sent each of them to one of the surrounding villages and they remained there for the rest of the battle (why would I need those?). The lich boss rallied several spectres and nightgaunts over to them, even the northern boss dispatched 4 of his chocobones. And those units took a long time to reach their target area, it severely weakened the enemy. Once the travelers started to focus my army I was already about to club their leaders. The AI should neglect village capturing, it would make the battle slightly harder. The center boss should recruit better units, dread bats and maybe some dark sorcerers. The 4 skeleton fighters in the NW corner should join the fight.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
First attempt was successful.

….........................................................................................

Overall I think that Dead Water is an outstanding campaign, not too long, not too short. Some scenarios are pretty tough and enjoyable, some were average, none were terrible. It's somewhat curious that the first few scenarios are the most difficult of the entire campaign and in addition to that absolutely not “intermediate”, some people might get frustrated and abandon the campaign. But I liked it the way it is. So yeah... dear creator of Dead Water: Thank you very much!

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Re: Scenario Review: DW 12 - Revenge

Post by beetlenaut » April 28th, 2013, 8:25 pm

You're welcome!
Campaigns: Dead Water
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Maiklas3000
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Re: Scenario Review: DW 12 - Revenge

Post by Maiklas3000 » June 13th, 2014, 12:01 pm

(1) Level, version, gold? Nightmare, 1.11.15, 532 starting gold.
(2) Difficult? (1-10) 7.
(3) Objectives? Clear.
(4) Dialog? Great.
(5) Challenges? I recruited two Priestesses, because they didn't really cost me anything, but I'm sure I could have won without them, between my Diviners and being able to level Initiates. I didn't position my line optimally, so the initial battle was more of a struggle than it had to be. Best is to have a vertical line just east of the three hex island, extending to the northern coast (because you want to "greet" the Necromancers when they arrive) but not down all the way to the southern coast (because you don't want to make life easy for Chocobones and other landlubbers.) My compliments to the AI for twice slicing through my line near the end, encircling pockets of my troops, once including my leader, which could have resulted in my defeat.
(6) Fun? (1-10) 9, it's an epic battle without being too big.
(7) Changes? I disagree with a previous reviewer who said the enemy should not village grab. For one thing, the enemy should not let the player keep lots of villages early on. In my game, the southeast leader had quite a few villages towards the end. If I was down to my last few units, it might have made for an exciting ending. (Ah, yes, I just now read Pewskeepski's review, and that's what happened to him.)
(8) Restarts? None. No restarts from start. No save-reloads at any time in the campaign.

General thoughts on the campaign: It's possibly the best mainline campaign, so kudos. However, I agree with other reviewers that the tone set by the first two scenarios doesn't really carry over to the rest. Maybe reduce gold by 20-33% on all the scenarios that people thought were too easy.
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Inky
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Re: Scenario Review: DW 12 - Revenge

Post by Inky » October 4th, 2014, 10:41 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.10.4, Triton/difficult, 650 starting gold

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
6 - Looks impossible at first but it's much easier than it looks! (You can kill lots of high level undead before they ever get the chance to attack)

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Good.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Keeping the loyals alive (I want to read their epilogues!)

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
9 - awesome, epic final battle to a great campaign.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
It's great as is.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
None. Recruited tons of priestesses and stayed in the southwestern swamp basically the entire time.
No save loading throughout the campaign.
----
Comments on campaign in general: This was my second playthrough (previously played on Challenging). Dead Water is my favorite campaign! It's challenging, has great dialogue and it's lots of fun. I especially liked collecting a band of assorted loyals like the bat, Keshan and Inky (<- my favorite!).
I would not have thought it possible to create so many maps all with lots of favorable terrain for mermen without it getting repetitive. But this campaign has very unique and memorable maps.
As others have noted, the difficulty is much greater at the beginning (scenarios 1,2, and 4) but lets up after that. Since the campaign has 4 difficulty levels, the highest one can be made a bit harder (especially the later scenarios) since players who choose this difficulty likely know what they're getting into.
And since there's no feedback thread for the epilogue, I wanted to say that I absolutely loved how each character gets his own little story.
Overall this campaign is just excellent. Thanks beetlenaut!

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D-Wade
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Re: Scenario Review: DW 12 - Revenge

Post by D-Wade » November 10th, 2014, 6:47 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.10.7 - Normal (569 starting gold)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Nice final battle with good dialogue.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
I really had no big challenge, maybe keeping my loyal units alive, but that's all. The reason behind that was my great recall list:

- Loyal Brawler (from Slavers)
- 3 Loyal Diviners (includign Tyegea and Cylanna)
- 3 Sirens
- 3 Entanglers (including Gwabbo)
- 1 Triton (with the Thunder Staff)
- 1 Warrior (with an Arcane Weapon)
- 2 Mermaids
- 1 Netcaster
- Keshan (leveled up)
- Inky (leveled up)
- 2 dread bats
- Cai Krellis (leveled up)

Also, I had enough gold to recruit 5-6 Priestresses. So it was actually pretty easy.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
9 - Nice final battle with an interesting surprise in the end.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Fine as it is.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
One reload because parts of my units took a wrong path in the beginning.

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shadow12
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Re: Scenario Review: DW 12 - Revenge

Post by shadow12 » November 19th, 2015, 7:05 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on? Medium. Wesnoth Ver 1.10.5, iOS App Ver 1.0.4 (not jailbroken) so it is not possible yet to upload or download a replay.gz

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
10. I tried to storm the center island right off the bat but I got massacred. By turn 12 the enemy had 65 units and I had 5 units.
I was able to win by staying in the southwest. There I could protect my rear on land and not get surrounded. I put 2 diviners, 2 priestesses and the Drake in the Keep, south of the main group. Put the remaining army together in the water close to shore, protect the bridge running north/south. I let the enemy come to me. Stayed in a double line formation, moving wounded in the middle. Killed the bats first, they will peck at your weak and wounded. When the big wave was over (around turn 12 or 14) I moved out to get the bosses. Split into two teams. Watch out for ghosts that ambush you.
I started with 26 units made up of recalls plus 6 Preistesses and some hunters. Finished with 19 units.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives? Clear.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Really liked the closing epilog about what happened to the main characters.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
figuring out the best strategy
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
10. I like getting the two extra amulets. The merpeople are fun.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Excellent as is.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Yes. Too much time wasted spinning my wheels. Totally my fault.
Sometimes life unexpectedly throws a Troll or a nasty Queen Naga in your path.

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