Scenario Review: DW 10 - The Flaming Sword

Feedback for the mainline campaign Dead Water.

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beetlenaut
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Re: Scenario Review: DW 10 - The Flaming Sword

Post by beetlenaut » April 3rd, 2012, 7:49 pm

Thanks for the review.

I don't think you should need more help with the ghosts: Priestesses are even better against ghosts than orcs, and sirens are pretty good too. You should have a few of each. You also have a silver mage, and should have a drake, someone with a storm trident, and someone with a holy weapon. Netcasters can slow down the ghosts' regeneration so that other melee units can be used.
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Re: Scenario Review: DW 10 - The Flaming Sword

Post by Ninjuri » June 16th, 2012, 5:39 am

Normal 1.10.2
Difficulty: 8
Objectives 100% clear
Dialogue: I didn't really get the part about retreating a turn and then attacking the mage. I read on the wiki about the elementals he summons, and i thought that it would be easier to kill him now, since i already had 4 hero units surrounding him. When the first one attacked, he gave his little dialogue and summoned elementals, but for some reason none of that attack hit him, yet he still countered. Did his voice startle my unit into not attacking?
Challenges: Taking on the enemies without losing a hero. I read on the wiki that i should race to the 3 villages in the middle and then run back due to nightfall right when the enemy approaches. The quickest units i could get up there got attacked right when they got to the villages, so that kind of backfired on me, and i was retreating through the night getting hacked up. I had my cuddlefish and diviner going northwest taking villages with a couple lv.0s, but it was soon obvious that they weren't running into resistance and were being wasted over there, so i sent them back to the middle, letting the lv0s continue village taking until they died. My holy-water warrior unit was messing around with keshan in the south-east trying to take villages there, but they kept running into leveled ghouls and bats, containing them to the villages and offering little movement. I was whittling down their units, but i got to a point where one of my heros/loyals had to die that turn depending on where i placed them. Not wanting to sacrifice any of them, and not wanting to go back and try to fix it, i took over 2 of the enemy archers and let them distract a bit, letting me re-group and heal. From there it was just a slow march into the castle, taking on about 3 units a turn.
Fun: 7
Changes: I'd lower the levels on a lot of the undead troops.
Reloads/Restarts: I would have had to but i really didn't want to so i just cheated a bit.
Fate is against me.

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PorkSol
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Re: Scenario Review: DW 10 - The Flaming Sword

Post by PorkSol » March 20th, 2013, 7:05 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

1.10.5 - Triton - (Nightmare) - No save/load - 200 starting gold

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

7

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Pretty good. Considering that there is a grace period of one turn, maybe harder difficulties don't need the obvious hint that the mage will betray you at the start of the map.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Holding the cluster of three villages for the initial undead night assault. Siddry's buddies can't handle it by themselves and letting the undead take it then clearing it out later slows you down too much, so I had to recruit some footpads. Otherwise, Chocobones and Shadows were the only other major threat. It was easy to forget how mobile the Chocobones were on the seemingly restricted map and I ultimately had to get a little bit lucky with dodges to avoid losing a high level unit as I finished up the main wave of high level undead.

I was also a bit impatient and I didn't make use of the grace period that the mage gives me before attacking. So a few spaces around him were occupied. If I had bad luck I could have lost a unit there. I should have waited a turn before attacking.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

8 - Good scenario and a slight bonus because the part where you fight the mage was well designed.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

It's fine as it is.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Never reloaded. Several restarts to figure out my strategy for the villages and to avoid making stupid mistakes that get units killed.
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cKomuHKa
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Re: Scenario Review: DW 10 - The Flaming Sword

Post by cKomuHKa » April 11th, 2013, 9:18 am

v 1.11.2

Image

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cKomuHKa
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Re: Scenario Review: DW 10 - The Flaming Sword

Post by cKomuHKa » April 11th, 2013, 9:32 am

And.. how can I suggest the translation fixes?
This is a widespread problem when the russian translator does not keep in mind the gender of the speaker.
For example, Cylanna sometimes speaks about herself like a male.

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beetlenaut
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Re: Scenario Review: DW 10 - The Flaming Sword

Post by beetlenaut » April 11th, 2013, 3:41 pm

I must have forgotten to merge the change that keeps that from happening. I will fix it when I get some free time. Thanks.

You can make suggestions in the translators forum. You can also read how to become a translator and fix it yourself if you want to.
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flammstrudel
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Re: Scenario Review: DW 10 - The Flaming Sword

Post by flammstrudel » April 28th, 2013, 5:19 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.10.2 Triton (difficult) – no reloads, 120 gold

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4/10

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Kill boss, grab sword. Clear!

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Good.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
There weren't any. The Lich doesn't exactly recruit a scary army. I think he got 3 deathblades, 4 or 5 chocobones, 2 spectres, 2 banebows, the rest was just weak tier one and two fodder, mainly ghouls, some ghosts and bats. In addition to that he was spread out fairly wide. Just move your fish ball diagonally across the field, you can steamroll them even at night. Lollerstomp lich, pawn mage the same turn he gets his sword. Done. Finished at turn 17 of 28. The only “loss” was the allied outlaw.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
5/10 I like fog of war and the return of the loyal poacher was sweet. The option to recruit tier one outlaw units is a bit pointless though.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
It was absurdly easy. Large parts of the map were totally irrelevant (NW and SE corners), maybe they could be filled with one or two weaker bosses. Despite heaps of villages the map design doesn't allow to take advantage of the silver mages teleportation, which is disappointing.

The AI should
a) get more gold
b) focus on your hero; my loyal outlaws and the white mage were idling on the northern-western edge of the central island (didn't need them) and a considerable part of the opponent's forces crawled through the swamps and tried to chase them down leaving their base exposed. But even without that it would have been trivial.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
I needed one restart. The first time a chocobone sniped the white mage and triggered the nuke. Made my day. I am glad that I made this mistake.

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Re: Scenario Review: DW 10 - The Flaming Sword

Post by beetlenaut » April 28th, 2013, 8:24 pm

Putting some weak bosses in the corners is a good idea. I may do that, but I won't have the time until July. I put more time into the nuke effect than it really deserves, but it does take the sting out of losing the mage!
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Re: Scenario Review: DW 10 - The Flaming Sword

Post by Maiklas3000 » June 12th, 2014, 1:04 pm

(1) Level, version, and gold? Nightmare, 1.11.15, 120 starting gold.
(2) Difficult? (1-10) 8 or 9. I don't know what flammstrudel is talking about.
(3) Objectives? Clear.
(4) Dialog? Excellent. The hint seems heavy-handed. Maybe just have them wonder if the Mage is trustworthy.
(5) Challenges? Since flammstrudel had an easy time, I'm guessing I should have gone easier on the spam. The enemy is spread out, but that worked against me, since I wanted to capture villages to fix my gold problem, and a Spectre got sent to each flank. A Spectre, Chocobone, and Ghost swooped out of the fog to take out my loyal Soulless Bat at the bottom edge of the board early on, sniffle. I did a poor job of the battle in the middle of the board and lost a Triton there. I had accidentally recalled him, since I wanted the Triton with the holy water, though I later recalled that one too. I almost lost Gwabbo in the final battle, and my loyal Brawler could have died too. While I'm thinking of it, maybe the loyal Brawler should be given a different title, since his stats are so much better than a normal Brawler. Brawny Brawler?
(6) Fun? (1-10) 10. I thought the ending (with the fire guardians) was just the right level of extra stress.
(7) Changes? See #4.
(8) Restarts? I lost once. Restarted from start. No save-reloads. I did almost have to kill the game when I became unable to move my units. Press "ctrl" seemed to restore normal operation. I'm on Linux, BTW.
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Re: Scenario Review: DW 10 - The Flaming Sword

Post by Inky » October 4th, 2014, 9:57 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.10.4, Triton/difficult, 226 starting gold

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7 - After the first wave it gets much easier. Also I completely forgot to rescue the poacher in slavers but I don't think he's much help anyway. Caladon spawned in the swamp with only 20%def so I just killed him that turn.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Fine (but does Caladon need to talk in all caps so much?)

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The first wave of undead, especially chocobones which were an unpleasant surprise.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7- pretty fun.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Maybe Caladon shouldn't spawn in the swamp as it makes him much easier to kill.
Edit: Actually I guess Caladon just takes the place of the lich - but the maybe the lich shouldn't enter the swamp either as he has only 30% def there.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
None. I played badly and lost some leveled units but I didn't think this required a restart as the campaign is mostly over.

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Re: Scenario Review: DW 10 - The Flaming Sword

Post by D-Wade » November 9th, 2014, 6:50 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.10.7 - Normal

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7 - The first wave can be harsh, but if you know how and where to position your troops, it isn't that difficult anymore.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Was nice with the (expected) betrayal in the end.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The major challenge was to survive the fist wave and position your units correctly doing that. First, I went through the middle, but that was too slow for the mermen, so I went around the corners of the central island and voila.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8/10 - It gave me the chance to level Inky and my loyal dragon to their final forms and overall was nice to play.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
All fine as it is.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
One restart for me (see #5).

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Re: Scenario Review: DW 10 - The Flaming Sword

Post by shadow12 » November 18th, 2015, 7:29 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on? Med, Wesnoth Ver 1.10.5, iOS App Ver 1.0.4 (not jailbroken) so it is not possible yet to upload or download a replay.gz

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) 8. Had enough gold (120) for only one keep of favorite recalls. It was enough to win without losing any high level troops. Not enough to recruit citizens to capture villages. So a catch-22 I was dealing with all the way through. The extra humans were nice. I had to use them as sacrificial lambs. I tried sending a footpad out to get villages but two bats killed that idea. I just kept all my lvl 3 units together and marched northeast. Finished on turn 21 of 28.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives? Clear, but I wasn't paying attention (my bad) when they discussed what the flaming sword did exactly, so I had a hard time deciding who should get it. I ended up giving it to a Triton, the only one who didn't have any arcane powers. It worked out very well.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario? Very interesting. However I didn't understand what Cylanna meant at the end to pretend we were leaving. I just kept fighting the enemy troops, but then it dawned on me to kill Caladan.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario? Tough enemy units coming at me the first night. Deciding where to position everyone to get the best kill ratio. Not getting killed at the end by the fire ghosts.
Starting gold only 120, but that made it more fun and challenging.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10) 10. Very fun, creative story.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun? Explain what the sword did right before they pick it up. "If you take this sword, you will be able to ___. Do you want to take it?" Something like that. A hint that we should kill calana and that the fire ghosts are going to show up. No biggie. The game is very entertaining and well constructed.

Edit: I meant to say "kill Caladan"

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario? Just going back a turn when I wanted to save a favorite unit, like my cuttle fish or dragon.
Last edited by shadow12 on January 16th, 2016, 11:26 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Scenario Review: DW 10 - The Flaming Sword

Post by beetlenaut » November 18th, 2015, 8:39 am

shadow12 wrote:...it dawned on me to kill Caladan...A hint that we should kill calana...
If you don't know what to do, you should always check the scenario objectives! In this case, they wouldn't have changed, so they still would have said to take the sword from its owner.
shadow12 wrote:Explain what the sword did right before they pick it up. "If you take this sword, you will be able to ___. Do you want to take it?"
It should do that already. When you move a unit onto the sword, it says something like: "8-4 magical fire damage," in one message, and then a second message asks if you want to take it. Didn't that work?
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shadow12
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Re: Scenario Review: DW 10 - The Flaming Sword

Post by shadow12 » November 20th, 2015, 11:37 pm

beetlenaut wrote:
shadow12 wrote:...it dawned on me to kill Caladan...A hint that we should kill calana...
If you don't know what to do, you should always check the scenario objectives! In this case, they wouldn't have changed, so they still would have said to take the sword from its owner.
shadow12 wrote:Explain what the sword did right before they pick it up. "If you take this sword, you will be able to ___. Do you want to take it?"
It should do that already. When you move a unit onto the sword, it says something like: "8-4 magical fire damage," in one message, and then a second message asks if you want to take it. Didn't that work?
Yes, you are right the objective was very clear. It threw me off for a second because Calanna said we should pretend to leave. If the objective was to take the sword from its owner, why would we pretend to leave?

I did not see the first message you mentioned there. I could be wrong, but I remember seeing two messages: one asking if you want to take the sword and a second saying now that you have it you have the power to __. I would like to see the second message explaining what it does comes first. Just a couple of small issues that I had personally, it did not affect the outcome. Like I said, it is my favorite campaign so far and very well done.
Sometimes life unexpectedly throws a Troll or a nasty Queen Naga in your path.

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Re: Scenario Review: DW 10 - The Flaming Sword

Post by sine_nomine » September 25th, 2016, 3:47 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Difficult (Triton), wesnoth 1.12.4
137 starting gold

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
6. I was expecting it to be a lot harder than it was. Actually I didn't really believe I killed the enemy's main army until the scenario was over, I kept thinking they must be hiding somewhere because they didn't put up enough of a fight.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Perfect

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Great

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
I started the scenario, looked at the status table, and saw that the enemy had 800 gold + 47 base income (I also saw caladon in the status table but the hint basically gave that away already). Naturally I was a little worried. I recruited some citizens and recalled a few veterans, then moved to the central keep to recall and recruit some more (as my income would allow). My positioning wasn't very good and I put some citizens on dry land to protect my leader so they died quickly. I ended up doing some fighting on the flatland because I wanted to use the castle but didn't want to expose my leader (I forgot I could recruit and then back up). Oh well. Then suddenly I noticed that there weren't many enemies nearby. I was worried they were hiding somewhere so I advanced cautiously towards the lich's keep and killed him - turns out the undead army really was dead.
Caladon wasn't particularly tough either. His flame guardians kept him safe for a turn but they're pathetically weak.
I gave the flaming sword to my merman hoplite with the storm lance (named Ember). I think it would be best used by a brawler because leadership could boost its damage (or even a citizen, it would do ridiculous damage with leadership and you'd level up after assassinating the necromancer in the final scenario).

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7.5, very scary in the fog and the human fodder was a nice touch. Lack of difficulty is the only flaw.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I'm not sure how to do it but a bit more difficulty would be nice.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No
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