Scenario Review: DW 2 - Flight

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Re: Scenario Review: DW 2 - Flight

Postby Wesbane » April 4th, 2012, 8:37 am

So, what? Beetlenaut already stated his opinion clearly about this subject. That is adding a feature and then removing it is worse than not adding it at all. Removing a feature upon request and then removing it upon another is twice as bad. And removing a feature that author consider great concept is just unthinkable.
taptap wrote:I don't understand at all what is meant by: Just fend off those fun makers!!! They are ruining this great campaign.

This is one of this sentences in metalanguage:
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Re: Scenario Review: DW 2 - Flight

Postby BfWEthnographer » May 21st, 2012, 12:47 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Wesnoth 1.11.0 (trunk)
Level Beginner

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
6

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Simple and clear

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Leveling kali without remaining trapped by incoming (north-east) skeletons

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
--

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
I tried two strategies (the one proposed in the walkthrough). Attacking the skeleton northest was a failing strategy for me (perhaps because I didn't yet have enough leveled units).
I restarted by trying attacking south west. Ths was successful although a couple of times I had to reload...when wraiths reach your army it becomes complicate ...but interesting

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
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Re: Scenario Review: DW 2 - Flight

Postby Ninjuri » June 1st, 2012, 8:17 am

Normal 1.10.2
Difficulty: 4
Objectives: 100% clear.
Dialogue: Good, interesting how each enemy recruited units specific to their type.
Challenges: Finding some good pickings for Krellis without putting his wimpy but in real danger.
Fun: 7
Changes: It seemed like the enemies all held back for a while and then all rushed at once. I would probably make it a more steady stream of units so it's like a long drawn-out fight to protect the city, instead of a single charge into your lines.
Reloads: none
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Re: Scenario Review: DW 2 - Flight

Postby hrushi » August 18th, 2012, 4:55 am

1.Nightmare
2.7
3. Straight forward
4.good
5. Getting correct strategy is crucial. In my first attempt, i have sent my troops to all the three bosses as result i lost. In second time I have sent 2/3 of army to north east (with Cylanna and level 3 Gwabbo) and 1/3 to south west(along with krellis), none towards the lich. mermaid priestess play an important role. Once you defeat those two bosses (your units would be levelled up by now), march toward the lich. I found the Blood bats to be very useful in my later campaigns to get villages and in campaign 'The Mage'. Also your first wave of recalls should be the units that are about to be leveled up send them to north east. So that they get healed in the middle of fight(you will battle level 3 banebows which rises your exp fast).
6.8
7. Change the objective slightly so that you kill atleast one boss
8.yes, if you dont get proper strategy it is tough.
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Re: Scenario Review: DW 2 - Flight

Postby Benefuchs » December 26th, 2012, 1:36 am

    1) Level, Version? 1.10.4; warrior (German)
    2) Difficulty? 6 (Kallis needed two more kills.)
    Difficulty strongly depends on state of leader and choice of goal.
    3) Scenario Objectives? Rather clear.
    4) Dialogue and story? Nice.
    5) Challenges? Sent my armies in all directions and barely managed to survive. All the Blood Bats (If you don't kill them fast enough) and rather fast high-level ghosts (If you stay until they attack you) can make lots of trouble.
    6) Is it fun? 8
    7) Make it more fun? An objective like 'gain x XP for Kallis' would level out the difficulty a bit.
    8) Reload or restart? Leader got killed in a careless and a bit unlucky move. Got many skilled guys killed, will probably play again (starting from scenario 1 and leveling Kallis before).
    9) WML? NA
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Re: Scenario Review: DW 2 - Flight

Postby D-Wade » March 6th, 2013, 3:58 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Normal, 1.10.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
1, I had my heroe leveled up and just fled. I don't know how you should beat those undead.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
It was okay.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
None.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
4, escaping is extremely easy, but it's okay that way

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Maybe one or two monsters etc. guarding the way out

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Nope.
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Re: Scenario Review: DW 2 - Flight

Postby PorkSol » March 9th, 2013, 7:58 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

1.10.5 - Triton - (Nightmare) - No save/load - 334 starting gold

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

8.5 to kill all leaders.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear. It was good that it mentioned that there was a reward for killing any of the leaders.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

No complaints.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Figuring out what objective to go for. I was not sure that it was possible to kill all the leaders on the hardest difficulty, since they have 1140 gold and can recruit level three units. I thought that time might be a concern, so I tried to rush the skeleton leader and the bat leader, but in each case I didn't even come close to success, they had too many troops for a rush to succeed. Then I tried farming EXP and escaping a few times, but I was unsure how to balance bonus gold and experience. Finally I decided to try killing one leader and then escaping. This allowed me to take my time on killing the skeleton leader and I was much more successful. So successful that I was able to kill all leaders rather easily, once the first one was dead.

The major challenge was to clear out the skeletons in the first 1o to 11 turns, while holding off the ghosts and the bats. Citizens, Netcasters and Initiates are extremely effective against skeletons in the water, but my resources were stretched to the limit and my lines could easily have collapsed completely. I ended up losing a netcaster and an initiate with experience, but I managed to kill the skeleton leader and recruit a castle full of troops just in the nick of time to hold my lines. After that I had plenty of time to kill the remaining leaders who were now low on gold.

I put the difficulty at 8.5 because it only took a few attempts once I found the winning strategy and because my troops could probably have been used quite a bit more efficiently by a better player.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

8. It seems very well balanced and the bonus rewards are a fun touch. I was a little annoyed because I wasn't sure which objective to go for, but that's mostly an idiosyncratic complaint. It could be rather irritating if your King has zero XP though.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

None. It would be nice if the player knew that he should earn some experience on his King in the prior scenario, but it's probably too difficult to work that into the dialog.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

I never reloaded, but I restarted from the beginning at least ten times. A couple failed attempts at rushing the skeleton, a couple failed attempts at rushing the bat leader, a couple of test runs/failed runs where went for the escape, to see how I wanted to balance XP farming and bonus gold, a couple of failed attempts to just kill the skeleton, then a final attempt where I killed all the leaders.
Attachments
DW-Flight_replay.gz
Nightmare, no save/load, killed all leaders
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Re: Scenario Review: DW 2 - Flight

Postby beetlenaut » March 10th, 2013, 5:14 am

PorkSol wrote:It would be nice if the player knew that he should earn some experience on his King in the prior scenario, but it's probably too difficult to work that into the dialog.
Actually it is in the dialog, but it must not be that memorable a line.
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Re: Scenario Review: DW 2 - Flight

Postby PorkSol » March 10th, 2013, 11:34 am

beetlenaut wrote:
PorkSol wrote:It would be nice if the player knew that he should earn some experience on his King in the prior scenario, but it's probably too difficult to work that into the dialog.
Actually it is in the dialog, but it must not be that memorable a line.


Oh, I see that in scenario one, Gwabbo and Cylanna do state that the King needs to learn battle skills. I apologize.
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Re: Scenario Review: DW 2 - Flight

Postby flammstrudel » April 28th, 2013, 5:07 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.10.2 Triton (difficult) – no reloads

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
10/10 Pretty hard, gave up after dozens of attempts. Defeating all three leaders is a real nightmare, kudos to everyone who managed to do it! In the end I leveled some units and got the hell out of there which was of course way easier. Around 2/10.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Okayish.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
I just can't survive the onslaught. My plan was to take the northern boss out asap, but he spams so many units that I just can't get to him. Usually around turn 8 the Spectre-Shadow-Wraith squad arrives and it's game over.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
I was motivated enough to play it over and over again. 9/10

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
It's just fine.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No.
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Re: Scenario Review: DW 2 - Flight

Postby Maiklas3000 » June 10th, 2014, 1:02 pm

(1) Level, version, and gold? Nightmare, 1.11.15, 322 starting gold (but I didn't use it all.)
(2) Difficult? (1-10) 8 if you have to give your leader some experience or want to kill one leader.
(3) Objectives? Clear.
(4) Dialog? Very good.
(5) Challenges? The secret to success is spamming Citizens and Initiates, as per previous reviews. The northeast leader is the easiest to take out, but if you're not quick you'll get hit by the ghostly recruits (Shadows, etc.) coming from from the south before you take him out. The reward for that leader is a loyal but wimpy WC bat and some gold. In the attached replay, I killed the northeast leader, and then, after much debate, I decided to run my leader, since I had lost in previous attempts when I tried to go for a total victory. My leader was still in his keep at the time, so it wasn't a hard run. I didn't get any experience for him, but he was already L1 from the first scenario. I delayed his exit a bit for the rest of my troops to get some experience by day, and I finished with a lot of leveled troops, a ton of gold, and a loyal but wimpy WC bat.
(6) Fun? (1-10) 10, good replayability.
(7) Changes? None.
(8) Restarts? Just normal losses, restarting from start. No save-reloads.
(9) WML? In the comments it says, "Killing any enemy is good though. Each one gives you a different bonus: Cash, a loyal bat, or a ring of strength." You get a loyal bat (Dread, Vampire, or WC) for killing any leader, and you also get cash for the northeast leader, and a ring of strength for Mal Daveth (I think.) Anyway, the comment needs to be updated/clarified for the current bonuses.
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DW-Flight_replay.gz
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Re: Scenario Review: DW 2 - Flight

Postby Inky » October 2nd, 2014, 4:16 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.10.4 Triton /difficult, 330 starting gold

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8 - very hard. (for killing the SW leader; since Kai Krellis was already lvl 1 I could simply have escaped.)

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Good.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Reaching the SW leader at the worst possible time (first watch). He killed a brawler and then a netcaster.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
9 - liked the challenge.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
It's great as is.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
None.
Strategy: Send everyone southwest to kill Mal Daveth. Send Kai Krellis NW to wait near the signpost. Killed Mal Daveth on turn 12 just as the undead were about to reach Kai Krellis in the NW.
I never even thought about trying to go for the other leaders - maybe I'll try it sometime.
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Let's Play Dead Water, Let's Play Invasion from the Unknown and Let's Play After the Storm (in progress)
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Re: Scenario Review: DW 2 - Flight

Postby D-Wade » November 8th, 2014, 12:37 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.10.7 - Normal
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8 - This time I actually tried to beat all of the three leaders. After watching some successful replays I managed to do it myself.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Pretty clear.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
I think the idea of the seemingly unbeatable undead army coming back to haunt you was nice.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The challenge was mainly to kill of the northeast leader quick so that my units couldn't be overwhelmed by the bats and ghost from the back.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
10 - I simply loved the challenge of beating all three opponents and also leveling up your units.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Nothing.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
I think Cylanna died once.
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Re: Scenario Review: DW 2 - Flight

Postby shadow12 » November 16th, 2015, 7:41 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on? Med.
Wesnoth 1.10.5, iOS 1.0.4
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) 10 for the fight, 1 to run
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives? Clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario? Good
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario? Killing an enemy leader (I couldn't)
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10) 5
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun? can't think of any
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Thankfully Kai was level 1 from the prior scenario so I had options. Admittedly I was lured by the temptation of my very own pet bat. This proved to be beyond my ability. I tried to defeat the northeast king, but he was crafty and refused to enter the water until after dark. I only had three level 2 troops and didn't want to rush in and lose most of my army. By then the ghosts were starting to join the party.
So I surrendered, restarted from turn one and ran. Maybe I will try again later, but I am ok with it for now.
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Re: Scenario Review: DW 2 - Flight

Postby sine_nomine » September 25th, 2016, 3:34 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Difficult (Triton), wesnoth 1.12.4
318 starting gold

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5 to kill one leader (southwest)
9 for full clear

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Perfect

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Great

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
In my first playthrough I aimed to kill the southwest leader (because he has the least gold) and escape. I played rather poorly, getting caught on the terrain and failing to reach the leader during the daytime, but since I recruited a ton of units I eventually made it there and killed him.

After finishing the campaign I decided to try going for a full clear in this scenario. I looked through the walkthrough to see the rewards for killing each leader and other information. For the northest front I recalled some experienced initiates, only one brawler, and recruited plenty of citizens. For the southwest front I recalled an experienced fighter and hunter and I recruited initiates and citizens. My plan was to quickly attack the skeletons in the northeast, getting priestesses in the process, then to retreat during the night. On the following day I would send Kai along with a major attack to clear all the skeletons out of the water. I used two priestesses to deal with ghosts, the rest fell to citizens and the brawlers the citizens became. Afterwards I hoped to lure the death knight out of his keep so I could kill him and potentially use the gold prize for further recruiting. Thankfully I didn't need any more recruiting because he didn't take the bait (good job for once, enemy AI). I had to wait a bit longer before killing him with priestesses. Then I sent that army towards the lich.
On the southwestern front I was defensive at first, which let me pick off plenty of isolated bats and heal off damage before engaging the walking corpses. Overall I guess the key was to stay mobile and to swarm enemies before their reinforcements could arrive.
tl;dr version: citizens and priestesses are good units

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6 to kill just one. 9.5 to kill all three.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I think it's very fun as it is. However I'm concerned that the rewards are too much. The ring and the bat were very useful in my playthrough and that's just from running away. If I continued from the all-clear my army would be very powerful (Kai, Gwabbo, and Cyalanna level three; eight brawlers; three priestesses, one about to level; an enchantress, a warrior, and a netcaster, some more initiates with some experience) plus I'd have three loyal bats and a ring. That's a pretty major advantage, especially in scenarios where you have little gold since the bats get recalled by default.
By the way, what happens if you kill the southwest leader last? Do you miss out on the ring?

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Not in my first playthrough.
For the full clear I succeeded on my second attempt (first time I didn't get kill many skeletons or get much exp for my initiates during the first day, so I restarted with a more concrete plan).

EDIT: I replayed this scenario (again) and it took several tries to win without good luck. I underestimated the difficulty because the southeast leader made mostly ghouls my first attempt, it's much harder when he makes lots of ghosts since only priestesses are effective against ghosts and you need to level initiates fast. Once again, my strategy was to fight in the northeast with citizens, brawlers and priestesses while using initiates in the southwest.
Attachments
DW-Flight_replay_v3.gz
Full clear with less favourable luck
(61.18 KiB) Downloaded 27 times
DW-Flight_replayv2.gz
Full clear
(62.68 KiB) Downloaded 28 times
DW-Flight_replay.gz
First try: leaving after killing the southwest leader
(48.32 KiB) Downloaded 28 times
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