The Rise of Wesnoth 20 - Return of the Fleet

Feedback for the mainline campaign The Rise of Wesnoth.

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allblue_dream
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Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: Return of the Fleet

Post by allblue_dream » March 17th, 2008, 1:33 am

1) 1.4 hard

2) 5 (again, by this time I S/L a crazy amount of times; but it so seems that after the elf's challenges, the campaign has become systematically easier.)

3) Clear

4) I guess it's interesting. The campaign keeps the same style of dialogue. Interesting as it is, one no longer remembers the dialogues after a while...

5) The chocobones were hard to cope with, but I sent my three loyal iron maulers to the coast line together with a merman hoplite, two paladins, and with a bit of S/L it's not that hard anyway. BTW, I used Owke's strategy from the wiki: peasants as shields, and was able to (albeit painfully and with a twisted patience) protect my advanced units. I even got two halberdiers and one pikeman out of the peasants! Sadly I wasn't able to recall all my advanced units in the final showdown for money issues...

6) 4? I have given up any hope for 'fun' in this campaign, just a twisted :twisted: determination to finish it off. But as I've said, with almost three times the normal starting gold (I was able to gather 280 from the Vanguard), the campaign became much easier.

7) Actually this is not about this scenario, but please offer some more early finish bonus so the player can get enough money for the final showdown, or else the final scenario will be reduced to another annoying practice of S/L cuz you can't afford to lose any units (not to mention that their bodies are raised up in unlife against you).
Interested in how open source people behave :)

sabalzen
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Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: Return of the Fleet

Post by sabalzen » April 14th, 2009, 1:49 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Normal, 1.6

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
11. Too hard.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear, it's the same as usual. Kill everything.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
OK

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Nasty surprises, and there are far too many of them here. Honestly, I can't see who can find this sort of scenario fun. It's impossible to get through without knowing in advance what will happen (and hard enough even then). And this is on 'normal' setting!

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
As someone else said earlier: 0. I've got a strong dislike for finding myself in an unwinnable situation. Who enjoys continually reloading?

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
If you are going to spring surprises, don't make them invariably fatal - it can't be fun except for masochists. I really liked this campaign up to and including Clearwater Port; from then on it has steadily gone downhill - less and less story, more and more ridiculous difficulties, more and more attempts before I can get through each stage, less and less fun. Seriously, what kind of person actually enjoys playing this sort of scenario?

Joram
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Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: Return of the Fleet

Post by Joram » May 13th, 2009, 4:51 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Hard 1.6.0

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

4- Not too difficult. I came in with 538 gold, so didn’t have any serious problems. Also, I recalled only my cavalry, loyal HI, MoLs, mermen, and the rest were lvl 1s and 2s (saves a lot of gold).

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear. KILL THEM ALL!!!

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
All right.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The surprises. I believe that the Saurians killed off one of my Grand Knights (don’t remember exactly, and the replay is corrupted). The rest of the surprises weren’t too bad. The cuttlefish mostly went south where my troops on the shore were able to take them out. The one that went towards the bridge was easily cut down, as at that point there were very few orcs left.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

4- All right. The surprises didn’t seem to me to be too powerful. The fight in the water was fun. I finally made heavy use of my mermen (only two left). I haven’t done that since the Island scenario, and it felt good. I used a few fugitives to hold the shoreline till my fish got into the water. Chocobones went down pretty fast.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

I’m not sure. I would probably have had a lot more fun with this scenario if I had had more mermen and it was easier to get them into the water.

I’m beginning to think that Mermen should just be a more viable option on land; as opposed to dead meat.
The Fires of Pride 0.3, a heavily story based campaign.
On hold while I try and finish my book

Renigade
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Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: Return of the Fleet

Post by Renigade » July 31st, 2010, 7:43 pm

I just don't have a good strategy and I haven't tried this level again (I just got here now) from my first play-through which made me quit because my build was bad.
I've got 375 gold, only lost a footpad throughout the campaign but I do not like the dark with units that are faster then mine and have a charge ability. If anyone has some tips to help me get through it please PM me them so I can finally beat this level instead of quitting the campaign again.

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fenny
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Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: Return of the Fleet

Post by fenny » August 23rd, 2010, 1:35 pm

1) 1.8.2 medium difficulty
2) 8, it's impossible without some losses
3) clear
4) good, i like the darkness event
5) keep as many units alive as possible
6) 7, i like it, but i don't like the casualties
7) nothing

shadowblack
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Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: Return of the Fleet

Post by shadowblack » August 23rd, 2010, 9:41 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.8.4, Commander (Normal)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7 because of the nasty surprises, otherwise it would be 4 at most

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Good. But talking to a saurian I could not see was weird.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Chokobones and cattlefish (or whatever those things are called).

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6 – it’s another kill-em-all, but at least it has a bit more variety and challenges.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
1) Fewer Chokobones. Or at least place them further away from the beach
2) Give a proper warning when the remaining orc leader receives extra gold. After killing Purple I was quite surprised that Green suddenly recruited a few more units

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Chokobones managed to kill Aethyr. I few more reloads to avoid a few pointless losses.
You are a Dark Adept: You immerse yourself in the dark arts... potentially with great rewards...

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Maiklas3000
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Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: Return of the Fleet

Post by Maiklas3000 » January 6th, 2011, 8:01 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Lord (challenging/hardest); 1.9.3; 318 starting gold (minimum is 200)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
9.5. I had to go back and replay the previous two scenarios to get more than the minimum starting gold, and even then I had to ask the forum for advice.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Okay.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
9 Chocobones and 3 Troll Warriors(!) Occasionally the AI would do something really smart, like slow one of my best units with a Pillager, then cripple it with a Troll Warrior, and then finish it off with a Chocobone, all on the same turn. The key is spam, as the AI is too eager to go for level 0 and cheap level 1 units.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7. Two points have been deducted for Saurian trigger.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I majorly object to the Saurian tomato surprise. It can be crippling. Once you know about it, proper strategy becomes a little weird, skirting around the Saurian trigger area, then deliberately stepping there during the day. I recommend that the Saurians always come in at turn 4 (evening) at the top edge of the map, maybe in the little swamp area between the orc castles. In general, I like for foes to run in, not to magically appear almost on top of the player's forces. I realize that it's supposed to be like an ambush, but it just doesn't work.

I don't so much mind the Cuttle Fish tomato surprise. As you note in the WML, no Wesnoth campaign is complete without Cuttle Fish. However, in most campaigns, the Cuttle Fish are happy to attack everyone. What is the rational for them only attacking the player's units here? I suggest having them attack everyone. At least on hard, the Cuttle Fish can be a bit much to handle, as the player's island taskforce can easily be facing 3 Chocobones as well as the 3 Cuttle Fish. So, if the Cuttle Fish would attack everyone, it would be better, I think.

(8) Restarts?
Many fails and restarts from start. No save-reloads, except for a "back to turn..." when a spurious mouse input caused a loyal level 3 unit to go running off in an unintended and suicidal direction (with no undo possible due to fog.)

(9) WML?
The only comment is about no campaign being complete without Cuttle Fish. I suggest commenting on the triggers and the gold bonus to one orc leader when the other is killed.

(10) Replay?
Attached. There is a screenshot in the thread "Rise of Wesnoth: Return of the Fleet, help needed".
Attachments
TRoW-Return_of_the_Fleet_replay.gz
(107.45 KiB) Downloaded 269 times

sv75
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Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: Return of the Fleet

Post by sv75 » January 7th, 2011, 11:08 pm

(1) 1.9.2, hard
(7) Is it possible to increase a number of saurians in the swamp according to player behaviour in The Dragons scanario? I.e., killing all saurians leaders increases a number of avengers.

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Telchin
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Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: Return of the Fleet

Post by Telchin » May 7th, 2012, 8:55 am

1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
1.10, easiest difficulty, save/load abuse was involved
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7, maybe harder if my Silver Mage tactics (see below) didn't worked. Impossible for me without save/loads. There should be some breather level between the challenges and The Rise of Wesnoth.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
The starting objectives mention, that Jessene must survive, but she appears several turns later. The objectives should change to reflect that.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
This scenario felt as filler. Both in this and the previous scenario you fight three enemies, both involve orcs and undead, both even have fog, making Jevyan's curse of fog in this scneario less effective. I don't think that this scenario advanced the storyline in a way that couldn't be explained in the previous or the next (storyline only) scenario.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Sparing money for the final battle, while requiring big army to win. The chocobones are annoying, but not as much as in the previous scenario. The undead on the island would be hard to kill as humans are slow and vulnerable in water and mermen (except netcasters) do low damage to skeletons. Fortunately I had a Red Mage close to leveling from the previous scenario, so I promoted him into Silver Mage, captured a villageb on the island with mermen, teleported the Silver Mage to the island, assaulter the Draug with magic missiles and finished him with the mermen.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
4, this scenario was an annoying filler, I needed lots of save/loading (suprisingly the above mentioned assasination worked on the first try)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
There should be some easy level between the challenges and the final battle, as the challenges can be completed in any order and are of variable difficulty. Then there are two hard scenarios and then a final battle? Give the player a moment to rest! In this scenario precisley there should be less Chocobones (they were alredy annoying in the previous one) and I'd like some watery shortcut for mermen from your keep to the sea. I recalled them on the first turn (see my Silver Mage tactics) and before they reached the sea, the skeletons from the island reached the mainland.

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Elfarion
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Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: Return of the Fleet

Post by Elfarion » July 25th, 2013, 8:17 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
1.10 Easiest difficulty
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
about 7-8 to figure out proper strategy and recruitment, executing the strategy is around 5.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Quite clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
As said before, I do not really see the story-like purpose of this scenario. If it's there to drain gold before the final battle - great, you achieved your goal! (Edit: though on easy you can create extra gold - I finished on turn 21 with almost 500 extra starting gold for the final battle.) But it did not feel like protecting the incoming fleet from the orcs.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Figuring out strategy and recruitment.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6 for playing, regarding the campaign as a whole and its place in the camapign 4.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Delete it and change it for a totally new one, if possible. I'm picturing something like "Clearwater Port reversed": Instead of defending the port so that you can escape, defend a port so that the ships can land.
Less radical: I agree with Maiklas. Have the Saurians not pop out of nowhere and the cuttlefish attack anyone.
Attachments
DAW-Die_Rückkehr_der_Flot..._Wiederholung_anzeigen.gz
(74.09 KiB) Downloaded 166 times
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Maiklas3000
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Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: Return of the Fleet

Post by Maiklas3000 » July 17th, 2014, 7:57 am

(1) Level and version? hard, 1.11.16, 293 starting gold (200 is minimum.)
(2) Difficult? 8, if you avoid the triggers, 9 or 10 otherwise.
(3) Objectives? Clear.
(4) Dialog? Fine.
(5) Challenges? It's hard to get the Mermen safely to the water and Jessene safely back from near the water where she appears after a few turns. I learned not to trigger the Cuttle Fish, so that they would not block the Mermen from the water or kill them after they got there. I also learned to divert two Paladins and a Footpad to protect the Mermen and Jessene from the dreaded Chocobones. And most importantly, I learned not to trigger the saurians. When I played this scenario years ago, I had struggled with setting up my main defense line, but this time I found a better spot. I set up camp in the northeast woods, just shy of the saurian trigger line:
Wesnoth - TRoW - Return of the Fleet - trigger zones.jpg
The easy way to remember it is that you can go to the northwest-to-southeast line one hex past that village in the woods.

I could have used one more healer (I had three Mages of Light plus two Paladins) or else more mobile troops (like Rangers), as I was having trouble healing all the wounded. At one point, I was forced to put Haldric on the front line while wounded, and to my horror, the enemy did a Walking Corpse style suicidal attack, but he luckily survived.

Meanwhile, a commando team went to kill the undead leader on the island. The team consisted of a Merman Triton with the storm trident, an Entangler, a Netcaster, and a Silver Mage. It was really hairy, requiring intelligent gambling, which I enjoyed. I would recommend players use two Silver Mages for insurance.

As the Merman maneuvered near the island, they triggered the Cuttle Fish, who headed to the mainland(!) After a long time, one turned back, but by then the undead leader was dead, and the Mermen were able to deal with one Cuttle Fish, if only just barely.

Once the enemy's assault had died down, I triggered the Saurians at dawn (second watch would be optimal), so that I would contact them during the day. They ran around in circles, confused about whether they wanted to attack my main force or the mermen. That watered down their assault to the point of being laughable.

I finished with +87 gold plus the early finish bonus for winning on turn 33/39. I hope this will be enough for the last scenario.

(6) Fun? 9 without the triggers, 7 as is.
(7) Changes? Pretty please, remove the saurian trigger. The basic problem is that this is such a difficult scenario that you will not win the first time, so you will learn to avoid the saurian trigger, which just becomes annoying. You could put the saurians at the top-right of the map at the start of the game, or possibly after a turn or two, with some dialog from them.
Attachments
TRoW-Return_of_the_Fleet_replay.gz
Second replay - returned for more gold, so this is a better replay.
(134.46 KiB) Downloaded 141 times
TRoW-Return_of_the_Fleet_replay.gz
First replay.
(133.26 KiB) Downloaded 141 times

Theron
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Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: Return of the Fleet

Post by Theron » July 21st, 2014, 10:56 pm

difficulty: HARD / wesnoth version: 1.11.16

Stats:
Scenario, starting gold (default+carryover),turns/max turns,recruits-recalls-advancements-losses-kills
20 200+212 25/39 8-14-10-1-94

Comments:
In an older version Jevyan shrouded the map. Now there is only fog - much better!
Attachments
TRoW-Return_of_the_Fleet_replay_HARD.gz
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taptap
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Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: Return of the Fleet

Post by taptap » April 22nd, 2015, 8:58 pm

Lord / challenging. 1.12.2, 435 gold, recruited until I went -10 per turn. Finished 27/39 with 253 carryover (I aimed for 24/39). Did surprisingly well, despite chocos, by turn 10 enemy was beaten with the main fight around the central forest, but gold bonus when killing one leader and all the lovely ambushes made it drag on until turn 27. The cuttlefish were lanced easily, but I lost a paladin to a late choco (went healing in between) directly afterwards. 102 losses so far throughout the campaign.

The tomato surprises don't increase epicness. You could just as well, make the cuttlefish static, but in a place, where they interfere, when you try to reach the enemy leader on the island and give the saurians a leader, a small castle and little money. For similar experience, but without "got you" game losses. (Ambushing skirmishers with some luck at night!) It even makes more sense for the saurians to intervene before the orcs are beaten. They want revenge I thought?
I am a Saurian Skirmisher: I'm a real pest, especially at night.

Thrash
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Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: Return of the Fleet

Post by Thrash » February 3rd, 2018, 4:01 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?

1.12.6, Normal

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

5

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Good.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Chocobones. Saurians.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

7

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

The saurian ambush was a bit much.
Attachments
TRoW-Return_of_the_Fleet_replay.gz
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Aldarisvet
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Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: Return of the Fleet

Post by Aldarisvet » July 9th, 2018, 9:31 pm

Here are replays of an unthinkable thing - passing The Rise of Wesnoth campaign on hardest difficulty recruiting only Mages.
The game version is 1.12.6

That was not easy fore sure.
Attachments
TRoW-Return_of_the_Fleet_replay.gz
(80.43 KiB) Downloaded 56 times
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