The Rise of Wesnoth 19 - The Vanguard

Feedback for the mainline campaign The Rise of Wesnoth.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

User avatar
Content Feedback
Battle for Wesnoth
Location: #wesnoth @ chat.freenode.net
Contact:

The Rise of Wesnoth 19 - The Vanguard

Post by Content Feedback » March 26th, 2006, 8:20 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Mainline Campaigns: Scenario FeedbackDevelopment & Overall Feedback
User-made Add-ons: Feedback

SmokemJags
Posts: 580
Joined: February 14th, 2006, 3:24 am
Location: New Avalon
Contact:

Post by SmokemJags » March 27th, 2006, 10:12 pm

1. 112a hard
2. 10
3. kill enemy leaders, clear as day
4. moving towards the end of the campaign, getting more interesting
5. Trying to win with only 100 gold (5 recalls)
6. 1 because I'm trying to win with 5 recalls worth of troops.
7. I'd say 300 gold worth of recalls is needed to successfully attempt this map and that would have to be the minimum gold you get when on this map. Any less... I don't see how it's even remotely possible.
Funny thing is, that much gold in recalls is going to destroy your gold reserves for the next map because there isn't nearly enough towns to support that many troops.

Serious problem, and I don't really see how I could have managed my gold any better in the previous scenarios to avoid this inevitability.

I'm gonna cheat and give myself about 300 gold for this and the next and maybe the last scenario, but without giving myself some extra gold I think this campaign is impossible on the hardest setting.

I beat it before on easier modes in other versions, but on the hardest setting... no way.


Edit: even attempting this scenario with 200 gold on top of the 100 minimum, they're still putting up one hell of a fight.
"A wise man speaks when he has something to say. A fool speaks when he has to say something."

wandering_rogue
Posts: 15
Joined: September 23rd, 2005, 2:54 am
Location: black bear country

Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: The Vanguard

Post by wandering_rogue » June 5th, 2006, 9:34 pm

(1) Easy 1.0.2
(2) 5 - much less difficult than The Dragon for example
(3) clear enough
(4) Kind of intriguing
(5) really just holding the access points between the canyons. Also, the undead popping up presented a problem at first.
(6) I was able to recruit more than enough with 350 gold to start and so it was fun killing the enemies as the came through the canyons.
(7) nothing
"Metaphor is richer than reality." -SG

User avatar
Zhukov
Art Contributor
Posts: 1685
Joined: November 9th, 2005, 5:48 am
Location: Australia

Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: The Vanguard

Post by Zhukov » June 27th, 2006, 11:08 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Medium difficulty, version 1.1.7

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8/10 - Loads of enemies, not all that much cover.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Fine.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
All good. Liked the dwarf line.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The undead surprises weren't too pleasant. Oh yeah, those wolves kept getting around my lines and shredding my wounded and healers.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6/10 - Not bad, but nothing amazing.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?[/quote]
Can't really think of anything off the top of my head.

Lord Jevyan
Posts: 32
Joined: July 16th, 2006, 1:07 pm
Location: Italy

Post by Lord Jevyan » July 16th, 2006, 5:46 pm

(1) 1.0.2 medium level
(2) 8. Another big battle with 3 enemy orc leaders
(3) Very clear. Kill everyone
(4) Just necessary to know that Jessica goes to hide the Ruby...
(5) Defeating the yellow enemy ( Trolls )
(6) 7. I liked when undeads arrived when i killed a orc leader
(7) Nothing to change for me.
Hasta la vittoria per Wesnoth, siempre!

Isen
Posts: 24
Joined: June 18th, 2007, 12:29 am

Post by Isen » December 28th, 2007, 9:39 am

(1) 1.2.6, Hard

(2) 7 - Provided you enter this with enough gold, which can be problematic, not too many hassles.

(3) Fine

(4) It didn't *feel* like breaking through a vanguard. More like a slogging match.

(5) Undead surprises.

(6) 3 - A generic battle this far in the game is a bit taxing. Seems like nothing more than a ploy to wear down the player's gold/recall supply.

(7) First attempt: dashing charge north, avoiding the main enemy force and taking out their first leader pre-emptively... only to be decimated by a flank attack from unforeseen chocobone reinforcements. They should be spawned to the north east, or north. A player cannot be expected to maintain a defensive line against what is supposedly a friendly map edge.

allblue_dream
Posts: 11
Joined: April 20th, 2007, 2:26 am
Location: China

Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: The Vanguard

Post by allblue_dream » March 17th, 2008, 2:13 am

1) 1.4 hard

2) 5 (I selected the Dragon as the last challenge, and managed to get the bonus, so I had enough gold for this one.)

3) Clear

4) Don't remember anything special now...

5) None

6) 6. When the undead showed up I thought 'Wow, some nice extra xp!' And I got some hungry mage recruits, so it was a perfect match :twisted:
The terrain is also interesting. Those cracks served as natural shields, but still I was surprised by the mobility of the wolves. Alright, I guess it's all about gold. If you have enough starting gold, it's fun; otherwise it's nightmare. Considering how I managed the last scenario, the campaign so far is not fun. And I guess I could have generated more gold if I had been determined enough to S/L my way through to early finish bonuses earlier (say, at Clearwater Port)...

7) Set 300 as the starting gold. I understand why people are frustrated. Considering the nature of Wesnoth campaigns, I figure that maintainers sometimes think it's perfectly fine or even desirable to implicitly tell the player to start all over again (for not enough gold or the right kind of advanced units at a late stage.) It's OK for some short campaigns, but not definitely not for this one. (Anyone also finds it the Test of the Clans in HttT irritating if without enough grand knights?) Players don't have the foreknowledge of the gold or unit requirement, unless you direct them to the right combination; they can read the walkthroughs, of course, but how much fun is it? The intented surprises are all lost.

p.s.
Why does the forum constantly trying to log me out?
Interested in how open source people behave :)

ALX23
Posts: 26
Joined: October 10th, 2008, 2:54 pm

Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: The Vanguard

Post by ALX23 » October 21st, 2008, 7:08 pm

v1.5.5 hard
I haven't accomplished the scenario, therefore I can't answer the question. But there is somekind of [object] bug: Haldric still has the "ruby of fire" and it's animations do not work properly (from the begenning - when he first got it)

Joram
Posts: 366
Joined: September 2nd, 2008, 5:36 am

Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: The Vanguard

Post by Joram » May 13th, 2009, 12:50 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Hard 1.6.0

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4- Not too bad.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
So are the elves planning on making a treaty with the liches/orcs? Otherwise, it is obviously in their best interests to help out the humans.

Other than that issue, the dialogue was all right.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Undead surprises.

There are surprises, and there are surprises. One issue I have with this kind of surprise is that it only works once. So you are basically applying a penalty to the first run through, and giving bonus xp to all future takes. Also, the undead are powerful enough that if the poor unsuspecting player happens to attack an orc leader at night when most of his troops are activated… WHAM! You get to start the scenario over, sucker.

I forgot about these guys from the last time I played this. I had to restart the scenario due to being unpleasantly surprised on my right flank and losing Lt. Aethyr.

At the very least, I would make them something other than Chocobones. If they were something else, you could at least try outrunning them till you can regroup. But Chocobones are brutal.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
4- Generic battle. Slog through hordes of enemies. Very much like a bunch of other scenarios. The trenches were a good touch, and bumped the rating up, but there isn't really much explanation for why they are there.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more interesting?
Change the contents of the undead surprises. It won’t change the difficulty at all if the player is aware of the surprises, and will make it more likely that a person can defeat them without restarting.

And at this stage of a campaign of this length, having to restart a scenario is really tough on morale.
The Fires of Pride 0.3, a heavily story based campaign.
On hold while I try and finish my book

User avatar
fenny
Posts: 39
Joined: August 19th, 2010, 2:22 pm

Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: The Vanguard

Post by fenny » August 23rd, 2010, 1:57 pm

1) 1.8.2 medium difficulty
2) 6, keep a strong defence line at the beginning, after killing the main force it's easy
3) clear
4) ok
5) be in the right position when the undead appear
6) 5, it's more some kind of work through scenario
7) nothing

shadowblack
Posts: 368
Joined: April 15th, 2010, 3:03 pm

Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: The Vanguard

Post by shadowblack » August 23rd, 2010, 6:38 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.8.4, Commander (Normal)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
3

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Good.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Avoiding losses, especially to the undead.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
4 – another kill-em-all *sigh*

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Some hint about the undead, or change them to something other than Chokobones.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
A lucky Chokobone killed Commander Aethyr a couple of times.


The appearance of undead when you attack an orc leader and the extra gold for the surviving orc when you kill the first orc warlord are nice breaks from the boring slaughter, but they are simply not enough.

The undead can be quite a nasty surprise. I got lucky (or rather they got unlucky) with their attacks and suffered no losses, plus my forces just happened to be in such positions that I could kill them all quickly and without any danger. The only problem I had with them was that a lucky Chokobone managed to kill Commander Aethyr, as I already mentioned. But in general the undead surprise could lead to a restart, or at least to a turn reload, if the player has the wrong units at the wrong places - and there's no way for the player to know the first time...
You are a Dark Adept: You immerse yourself in the dark arts... potentially with great rewards...

User avatar
Maiklas3000
Posts: 532
Joined: June 23rd, 2010, 10:43 am

Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: The Vanguard

Post by Maiklas3000 » December 30th, 2010, 6:44 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Lord (challenging/hardest); 1.9.3 [and 1.11.16, see below]; starting gold 453 (minimum is 200), thanks to Cursed Isle

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Why is the orc shouting about gold if he smells humans? It can't be a trap, because the gold was real.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The start is dicey, with the western gaps being difficult to plug fast enough. The biggest problem was Chocobones killing Commander Aethyr. They don't need luck to do it, just 2/2 hits, usually on 40% defense. My other problem was the "Sitzkrieg" that manifests itself at the sinkhole line. I ran out of time on one attempt because of this. Kudos to the AI in 1.9, which I swear is better than in 1.8, though the changelogs give no such indiciation. For the most part, the AI did not suicide its troops and did almost as good a job of "Sitzkrieging" as I did.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
10, for novel strategy required to first establish a Sitzkrieg and then to break it before time runs out. Even the endgame cleanup was fun, with the Sitzkrieg turning to a Blitzkrieg.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Have Commander Aethyr piss his pants when the Chocobones appear, as a warning to the player.

Put a river flanked by hills at the end of one of the sinkhole lines, so that players understand that this odd sinkhole formation is formed by an underground river.

I agree with the suggestion by someone above that the starting gold should be minimum 300. On hard, I don't think I could beat it with 300, mind you, but it's an improvement over 200. With the previous four scenarios being playable in any order, and some of them being tough to get any gold, you have to do something to make life easier on the player who chooses the "wrong" scenario to do last.

(8) Restarts?
Yes, many restarts from start, no save-reloads.

(9) WML?
Well commented, good job.

(10) Replay?
Replay is attached. This is one of my favorite replays of all time.
Wesnoth - TRoW - The Vanguard - turn 15 - Sitzkrieg.jpg
Above is an annotated screenshot of the Sitzkrieg as it appeared on turn 15. In the east, my Red Mage was sitting in a gap, unwilling to attack the facing Crossbowman, for the obvious reason that there were three Chocobones sitting behind! But likewise, the Crossbowman was unwilling to attack my Red Mage on at least one turn. At the next gap to the left, I had a 1-point-from-AMLA Silver Mage guarding, so he was unwilling to attack (since he didn't want to lose his AMLA invulnerability shield) and the AI was unwilling to attack him (since he was invulnerable.) In the end, the AI did the correct, smart play of moving a level 0 unit to harrass my Silver Mage. In the Southwest, I played cat-n-mouse with a Chocobone, each side stalking the other without wanting to commit to an attack for fear of losing a unit. The AI was spooky smart with that Chocobone. With time ticking, I had no more time for a Sitzkrieg or any cat-n-mouse games. My plan was to break out of the southwest, using the west board edge defensively and rolling northwards. That succeeded, but I lost a ready-to-level Horseman, a Thug, and a Silver Mage, due to carelessness. I leveled up a Red Mage to Silver Mage, two Mages to Red Mages, a Spearman to Royal Guard, and more, so the scenario worked out okay. I don't have any carryover gold, though.
••••
Edit: Foiled again. Nobody has reviewed this scenario since my review, so I will just edit my post to add my new review:

(1) Level and version? hard, 1.11.16, 473 starting gold (200 is minimum.) I did Cursed Isle last for the gold.
(2) Difficult? 7.
(3) Objectives? Clear.
(4) Dialog? See my criticism in my previous review.
(5) Challenges? I lost the first time, because I failed to send enough quick units to seal the western gaps at the start. I wound up recalling a couple of quick Grand Knights on the first turn to fix that. I hate recalling L3 units on the first turn (due to upkeep), but Horsemen didn't do the trick the first time and I only had one Knight. I finally had mostly secured the gaps on turn 8 (when it is morning:)
Wesnoth - TRoW - The Vanguard - stalemate line.jpg
The western gaps still aren't sealed at that stage, but I've killed almost all the enemy in that area, so it hardly matters. You can see that I'm holding the topmost gap with just a wounded footpad and a peasant, so my forces were stretched pretty thin.

Other than securing the western stalemate line, it's a pretty easy scenario, but you are constantly challenged by things like facing two Chocobones and a L3 Troll, so you worry about who to put at that gap.

It was heartwarming to see Commander Aethyr return this scenario, but I had a bit of a scare when two Chocobones appeared out of the fog after he had moved. I had to stick a Grand Knight in front him to save him. The Grand Knight made the ultimate sacrifice, even though he had 77 HP and did not attack. Friggin' Chocobones.

There wasn't much of a Sitzkrieg element this time. Looking at the screenshot in my earlier review, it looks like I made the mistake of sitting in the gaps rather than behind them.

On turn 15, in the afternoon, I sent everyone in the southwest "over the top" (WWI reference.) Then I thought "oops, it's going to be night... that was a mistake." But at night I totally slaughtered the orcs there, along with four chocobones and a L2 Troll. By dawn, only the Warlord leader remained, with just 18 HP. I tapped on him with a Mage of Light's morning star, so that a Spearman could get the kill.

(6) Fun? 10. It was a little too easy with this much gold, but still I love this scenario.
(7) Changes? Great as is.
Attachments
TRoW-The_Vanguard_replay.gz
Newer replay, Wesnoth version 1.11.16.
(117.89 KiB) Downloaded 190 times
TRoW-The_Vanguard_replay.gz
Original replay, Wesnoth version 1.9.3.
(100.92 KiB) Downloaded 318 times

Theron
Posts: 137
Joined: May 13th, 2008, 10:49 am

Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: The Vanguard

Post by Theron » July 21st, 2014, 10:27 pm

difficulty: HARD / wesnoth version: 1.11.16

Stats:
Scenario, starting gold (default+carryover),turns/max turns,recruits-recalls-advancements-losses-kills
19 200+297 18/35 6-18-6-7-62

Comments:
Race west to guard the gaps.
Otherwise you will get swarmed.
There were no undead reinforcements for blue. A bug? Or intentional because I was fast?
Attachments
TRoW-The_Vanguard_replay_HARD.gz
(97.28 KiB) Downloaded 167 times

User avatar
taptap
Forum Regular
Posts: 980
Joined: October 6th, 2011, 5:42 pm

Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: The Vanguard

Post by taptap » April 21st, 2015, 8:40 pm

Lord / challenging. 1.12.2, 520 gold. Recruited plenty, but at pains not to go too deep into negative gold due to recalls, so plenty level 1, even two peasants. Finished turn 19/35 w/ 233 carryover. Lost my highest hp silver mage to surprise chocobone, levelled a peasant to longbow. Proud of my quick lancer, he played a major part in killing the first enemy leader at turn 9, and quite happy with my play (despite one or two derpy moments).

I hate surprise chocobones + fog. I don't understand how this amount of tomato surprises is present in a mainline campaign, it isn't as bad here as in other scenarios, but it is a recurring theme throughout the campaign.

@maiklas: The orc paid the trolls.
Attachments
TRoW-The_Vanguard_replay.gz
(125.97 KiB) Downloaded 158 times
I am a Saurian Skirmisher: I'm a real pest, especially at night.

User avatar
shadow12
Posts: 98
Joined: November 6th, 2015, 1:06 am

Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: The Vanguard

Post by shadow12 » February 8th, 2016, 10:41 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on? Lord (hardest) Wesnoth 1.10.5, iOS app ver 1.0.4. Ended on turn 22/35. Starting gold 532 thanks to a Cursed Isle. Finishing gold -11. Carry over gold 162.
Kills:48. Losses:14.

A side note: This is my first time playing the hardest level (Lord). To be honest, I have found that I prefer playing easy and medium. It has nothing to do with this campaign, it is an awsome campaign and I plan to replay it later because I enjoyed it so much, but I think that it's more fun and less stressful to play easy or medium. There is a snowball effect of sorts: more turns to get more advancements, more advancements to help get a higher early finish bonus, more gold each time for more recalls, more veterans to help promote new recruits, and so on. I can only speak from my personal experience, I am sure other players have different views (and better stats) than I do. :)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) 10.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives? The objectives in this campaign have always been clear.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario? The story is really well done, it has a nice flow, each scenario builds on the last. Characters are interesting, each personality defined with supporting dialog. The dialog is not long-winded, making it a pleasure to read.
I second Maikla's suggestion #7 above.
Another way to give a warning that we are close to an undead could be that we smell one, I am sure undead don't smell like roses:
"Oh my! You do you smell that?! Are we back in the sewer?"
"What is that reek? Did something die?"
"Burin!! Did you have beans again last night??"

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The enemies were a challenge:
. Green Orcs in the East...plus their Green Undead friends
. Purple Trolls in the North ...plus their Purple Undead buddies
. Blue Orcs in the West...plus their Blue Undead pals
. The Orc kings recruited all L2 units, and the Troll king recruited mainly L3 Troll Warriors.
. L2 undead Deathblades and Chocobones, plus L3 undead Banebows and Draugs.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7, The map is amazing! (Like always). The Chocobones surprise attacks out of the fog were not fun, though.

I played this scenario twice, the first time I didn't do well. I tried to defend the large triangle-shaped land mass between the sink holes and then attack in each direction, but my troops were too spread too thin. So I restarted the scenario, sent some Footpads to defend the west (they were tough little troopers), and moved my army counterclockwise around the map. --> East --> North --> West. As quickly as possible.

I felt a little better about my second game. I lost a Fugitive, loyal Shock Trooper and a Halberdier, but had several advancements and more gold.
Sometimes life unexpectedly throws a Troll or a nasty Queen Naga in your path.

Post Reply