Scenario Review: Liberty 5 - Hide and Seek

Feedback for the mainline campaign Liberty.

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wesja
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Joined: June 17th, 2012, 6:38 pm

Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 5 - Hide and Seek

Post by wesja » June 17th, 2012, 8:17 pm

On the sixth time I managed to get it through. But I had to kill 4 or 5 guards using Harper as a bait. I thought this scenario was intended to be done with no fight. I can upload save if needed.

Zlob
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Joined: July 6th, 2012, 5:51 pm

Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 5 - Hide and Seek

Post by Zlob » July 24th, 2012, 11:21 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
--- Fugitive(difficult), 1.10.1
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
--- 5.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
--- Clear, as always.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
--- Nice :)
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
--- There were no major challanges.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
--- 9. I loved sneaking in the thick fog. :D
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
--- Add horsemen to make death even more unavoidable after you get caught. I would add a fight at the end to make it look more dramatically. :eng:
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
--- I placed Harper on wrong hex. It was near the fort, so I got killed in same turn. :annoyed:
(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
--- Ummm... :whistle:
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Liberty-Hide_and_Seek_replay.gz
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grizdog
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 5 - Hide and Seek

Post by grizdog » December 20th, 2012, 1:47 am

I'm a beginner, but I found it impossible after restarting the previous scenario, hoping to get a new collection of guards. There just did not seem to be a path through any time I tried. Is there still a bug? I am running 1.10.2 Here is the save file from the beginning of the scenario:
Liberty-Hide_and_Seek.gz
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grizdog
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 5 - Hide and Seek

Post by grizdog » February 11th, 2013, 1:48 am

Sorry to sound like a whiner - or to be a whiner - but it keeps happening. I keep getting impossible scenarios. I have looked hard and will post more replays if you want, but every other time I play this I get a scenario with no safe paths.

How far back to I have to go to get a new map? Just save-scumming the last turn on the previous scenario doesn't seem to be enough.

Thanks for any help

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zookeeper
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 5 - Hide and Seek

Post by zookeeper » February 11th, 2013, 6:38 am

Oops, sorry for not replying sooner.

It's a bit surprising that you never got a safe path despite repeated attempts, but I guess you've just been particularly unlucky. I've been trying to fix the problem but I haven't got a good solution to it yet because it's rather tricky.

So for now, I'd suggest using the command mode to cheat your way through an impossible situation (for example, giving Baldras an extra move with :unit moves=6), or I can fix your savefile so that a safe route becomes possible. Attached is such a fixed version of the savefile you posted.
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grizdog
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 5 - Hide and Seek

Post by grizdog » February 15th, 2013, 2:55 am

Thanks so much for the reply. I just finished another attempt, and got stuck again. I'll try the command mode. I was very proud of this one - I finshed the previous scenario with no level 1s in my recall list, lots of gold.

Thanks again very much for replying and including the new replay.

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D-Wade
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 5 - Hide and Seek

Post by D-Wade » February 19th, 2013, 7:18 pm

I have the same problem. Tried redoing the final turn of the previous mission and deleting the savefiles from "Hide and Seek". I always come up with the same result: The units are positioned exactly the same and I can't get through there at a certain point.
All I need is one more moving point for Baldras and I could do it but using the cheating console won't allow me to change the units movement, because it is only unlocked for developers.
Is there any posibility?
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zookeeper
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 5 - Hide and Seek

Post by zookeeper » February 19th, 2013, 10:03 pm

D-Wade wrote:I have the same problem. Tried redoing the final turn of the previous mission and deleting the savefiles from "Hide and Seek". I always come up with the same result: The units are positioned exactly the same and I can't get through there at a certain point.
That's odd. I thought that the random seed (which is stored in beginning-of-scenario saves) would get regenerated every time you complete a scenario, but apparently that's not the case.
D-Wade wrote:All I need is one more moving point for Baldras and I could do it but using the cheating console won't allow me to change the units movement, because it is only unlocked for developers.
Is there any posibility?
Well, here's a save with a different random seed, which results in different guard positions (ones which are particularly easy to evade, too).

Which version/system do you have? I'm guessing Android or iOS, if you can't activate the debug mode.
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D-Wade
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 5 - Hide and Seek

Post by D-Wade » February 20th, 2013, 4:45 pm

zookeeper wrote:Which version/system do you have? I'm guessing Android or iOS, if you can't activate the debug mode.
I use the 1.10.5 Windows version and I'm able to open the console using : (shift+.). But it tells me that "units is temporary disabled". Don't know what this is actually supposed to mean.

And thanks for the savefile but I managed to beat it even when getting detected. But it's quite close and takes some loading and reloading and a good portion of luck ;).

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zookeeper
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 5 - Hide and Seek

Post by zookeeper » February 20th, 2013, 5:41 pm

D-Wade wrote:
zookeeper wrote:Which version/system do you have? I'm guessing Android or iOS, if you can't activate the debug mode.
I use the 1.10.5 Windows version and I'm able to open the console using : (shift+.). But it tells me that "units is temporary disabled". Don't know what this is actually supposed to mean.
Ah, but you need to enable the debug mode first with the :debug command.

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D-Wade
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 5 - Hide and Seek

Post by D-Wade » February 20th, 2013, 5:50 pm

Ah ok, alright. I know better next time :)

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flammstrudel
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 5 - Hide and Seek

Post by flammstrudel » May 1st, 2013, 5:52 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.10.2 Fugitive (difficult) – no reloads

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
3/10

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Not very clear. Where exactly do the guards spot you? If you stand on flat ground? Am I supposed to move through forests only? Does the concealment ability from a tier 3 fugitive mean that I am always save in villages (hint: no, you are not)? Yeah, in the end I figured it out: they can see one tile further than they can move. Just put it in in the objectives!

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Good.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Figuring out where the guards can't see me.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
It's a matter of taste. You 've come up with new idea, certainly no run-of-the-mill Slay-Boss-scenario. Not a huge fan of rpg-ish levels my self, but I can imagine that a lot of people might find it refreshing and entertaining.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Give a hint how the spotting system works.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Several. Once I understood what was really going on it became pretty simple.

Linthar
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Joined: September 14th, 2006, 12:16 am

Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 5 - Hide and Seek

Post by Linthar » August 8th, 2014, 3:16 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.10.7 Difficult

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
11 the first time (It was literally impossible), 2 the second time

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
The objective was clear, but the scenario never explicitly spells out that stay out of sight means stay out of the enemies movement range.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
It was filler. Decently written filler, but still filler that doesn't advance the plot at all.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Dealing with the fact that the random level generation can sometimes generate a level that is completely impossible to beat. I checked the first level generated very carefully. There was no way for Baldras to reach the bottom without ending a turn in one of the guards movement range. Also there is no indication whatsoever that the level is randomly generated and that you can fix this problem by restarting. You'll only know that when you become desperate enough to look up a walk-through. Once I restarted the scenario was trivial to beat with a little patience.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
1. Having to restart the level from scratch because the random level generation is bugged and can make the level completely impossible to beat is not fun.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Remove the random level generation. It doesn't work reliably and I'm not even sure what the point of having it is. The gimmick of the map could be interesting the first time you play it, but it's not interesting enough to make me think anyone is going to greatly desire to replay this level and have a completely fresh level ready for them they to figure out all over again. It would be better to just have a single well designed level instead of using an unreliable random generator.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
As I mentioned 3 or 4 times already the random level generation gave me an impossible level to beat my first time, and yes I'm a little bitter about it.

fareley
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Joined: September 10th, 2008, 5:45 pm

Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 5 - Hide and Seek

Post by fareley » January 1st, 2015, 6:43 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.12.0 Hard no reloads

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
I am still unsure about the getting-detected-part. Does it stop once you kill all enemies in sight? They suddenly appear to know the location of both of your units even if just one is detected. Very weird.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Was fine

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The place of the troops appears to be random. At my second attempt I was boxed in into the initial position by guards, making it pretty much impossible for the big guy to go through.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8 - it is a sneak mission, no kill-everything-you-see-and-win mission. I like that :)

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
It is a lot of fun already.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Yeah, getting detected and guard setups that caused me to waste many days on routes that ended up to be a dead end for the slow guy.

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
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shadow12
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Re: Scenario Review: Liberty 5 - Hide and Seek

Post by shadow12 » December 2nd, 2015, 10:26 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on? Medium. Ver 1.0.4
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) 10 at first, then 2 (see #6)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives? clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario? the campaign dialog is clear and the story is interesting.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario? getting through without being caught
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

To start with, not very fun. It got much more entertaining after leaving Harper in a lake.

Harper's larger range of site into the fog was a hinderance, it just alerted the enemy.

So we ditched Harper, left the guy standing waist-deep in a water hole. The objective said get Baldras to the signpost, it said nothing about Harper. It was much easier to move just Baldras. But I have to admit Harper was a good sport about it; when an enemy spotted Baldras, the screen would pan back to Harper standing in water and he would yell, "Run!" to Baldras.

A friendly unit appeared to Baldras at the end saying, "Gentlemen, come this way." Guess he didn't notice Harper was not along, or maybe he was just too polite to ask why Baldras was alone. For all he knew, Baldras could have whacked his nephew over the head and stolen his wallet. (Bandits are funny that way.)

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Include only Baldras.
The scenario was well done and the map well thought out.
Have to admit I do like the battle scenarios better, just my preference.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Yes, not being able to get to the end because Harper couldn't get through.
Edit: because we left him in the lake hahaha(evil laugh)
Last edited by shadow12 on January 8th, 2016, 12:09 am, edited 3 times in total.
Sometimes life unexpectedly throws a Troll or a nasty Queen Naga in your path.

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