South Guard 9a - Vengeance

Feedback for the mainline campaign The South Guard.

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Skyhunter
Posts: 15
Joined: March 14th, 2007, 9:10 pm

Post by Skyhunter » March 16th, 2007, 3:18 pm

Vengashii wrote:(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on? Easy, 1.3.1
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) 100
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives? Very clear.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario? Very good.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario? Ethiliel WAS NOT IN THE BLOODY SCENARIO.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10) 10
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun? Try putting in Ethiliel next time so I can actually win the bloody scenario. :p
1.3 normal
I completely agree i also played till this scenario, and i don't recieve ehtileel nor the priest guy, and i cannot recall anyone from the last scenario.

ahsile
Posts: 2
Joined: March 19th, 2007, 9:27 pm

Post by ahsile » March 19th, 2007, 9:37 pm

Skyhunter wrote:
Vengashii wrote:(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on? Easy, 1.3.1
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) 100
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives? Very clear.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario? Very good.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario? Ethiliel WAS NOT IN THE BLOODY SCENARIO.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10) 10
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun? Try putting in Ethiliel next time so I can actually win the bloody scenario. :p
1.3 normal
I completely agree i also played till this scenario, and i don't recieve ehtileel nor the priest guy, and i cannot recall anyone from the last scenario.
Same... it's a little frustrating after playing for an afternoon and then not being able to finish the scenario because none of the "heroes" are there and I cannot recall anyone.

SailingSteve
Posts: 3
Joined: March 20th, 2007, 6:56 am

Post by SailingSteve » March 20th, 2007, 7:18 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on? Easy, wesnoth-1.2.2-windows.exe
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) 10 - unwinable
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives? Very
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario? seemed straight forward
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario? Ethiliel did not appear in the scenario and no previous units were recallable.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10) 1 because of the BUG.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun? Fix the bug so Ethiliel and recallable characters are available.[/b]

freddf
Posts: 17
Joined: March 20th, 2007, 9:03 am

Post by freddf » March 20th, 2007, 11:49 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
v1.2.1win, easiest level (don't remember the exact naming :) )
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
1-2. It was cheer luck. Got one rookie unit killed on the first or second round before the spawning craze begun, so could start circumventing maneuvers early.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives? & (4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Clear, but disagree with implementation. :P (see below)
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Same as everybody: get around the elves.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
1-2. Rated so low because it is a little sad for an ending. Fighting against the elves with other elves that are your allies in the last mission is not fun at all. I guess that people will say that we are not here for a "happy endings" and that Wesnoth politics are not about universal peace, etc. I agree with that, but would still prefer a classic "they lived happily ever after" in an introductory/tutorial scenario.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Completely agree with SmokemJags post. At least it make it more logical and dynamic. But personally would prefer a more cheerful ending for an introductory scenario.

There might also be a bug. On the easiest level, it is possible to lure the elves downwards while making a dash for the "trigger spot" with the Ethiliel and end the game w/o any unit dying and, thus, w/o having the message to bring her there. The place have no crossed sword marker, but it still works.

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santi
Lord of Wesmere
Posts: 1320
Joined: April 6th, 2004, 12:32 pm

Post by santi » April 26th, 2007, 4:29 pm

Get rid of this secnario!!!! Keep the story if you like, but get rid of it, it is plain dumm! I mean I sided with the elves in the fog scenario and still get the attack.Plus the whole idea that the right strategy is let your troops be massacred without striking back(else there is a spawned elf at the tree and you lose) makes little sense and little fun to play.

cph
Posts: 129
Joined: May 12th, 2007, 4:29 pm
Location: London, UK

Post by cph » June 5th, 2007, 7:07 pm

1) Normal, 1.2.4
2) 1
3) Well, I'm not sure even now if I properly won; the elf died, that seemed to be result in a victory, but it doesn't add up for me.
4) Interesting, but I agree with several previous posters about the Elves being an ungrateful lot. Perhaps I'll betray them next time.
5) Knowing what to do.
6) 2
7) I think this scenario just doesn't work. Drop it, turn it into a cut scene, come up with a better coda.

I guess I should say something constructive. How about: elves are pissed; elves reckon you'd all be dead without their help; so elves want tribute from the people of Westin; Deoran tells them to go home; battle ensues; kill 20 elves and they change their mind, head home; the end.

nowhereman
Posts: 3
Joined: July 18th, 2007, 2:55 pm
Location: Grenoble, France

Post by nowhereman » July 18th, 2007, 3:32 pm

The same feelings as the rest here, played Normal difficulty on 1.2.5 (Windows). At the end I realized what was going on, restarted the scenario and just plain run around with my main lot keeping ZoC to protect my elf while elvish disciples were slaughtering the village guards... Once you realize that you shouldn't kill any elfs, it's extremely easy.

Very sad ending for otherwise quite nice and balanced campaign.

By the way, there seems to be a bug in there somewhere, as I was able to recall all the characters 2x (2 Ethiliels whatshername, 2 ministers something, soldiers from previous scenarios also each 2x...)

Guayasil
Posts: 12
Joined: December 10th, 2006, 4:54 pm

A very annoying bug in the scenario!!

Post by Guayasil » July 23rd, 2007, 5:45 pm

IMHO very nice, rather simple scenario. I would rate it high, but... there is a very annoying bug (1.2.5 under gentoo):
In the "vengeance" I can recall the same armies several times -- see the screenshot!!!
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ballyhoodin
Posts: 1
Joined: August 18th, 2007, 3:17 am

neat.. but like, what??

Post by ballyhoodin » August 18th, 2007, 3:59 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
medium difficulty; aptitude says 1.2-1. (debian etch)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
give it a 7.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
defend the city, okay, which part, um, wait there's a tree... where? what? okay.. CTRL-O...

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
the dialog was vague. the storyline was clear but pretty much a 180 from what would make sense. i could see a branch of xenophobic elves sort of splintering off but not all of them. i've gathered it was all of them from the fact that i couldn't recall any elves, and the ones who quit the camp apparently stole most of my cash. the dialogue actually implies a faction but there seems to be a bit of a monogamous horde. if that can be conjugated.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
getting the druid around to the tree (really?). not killing any elves is really easy, just don't get the javelineer in the fray and don't attack anybody. obviously you don't bring Man-At-Arms into this one. I used a couple of waves of riders to sweep around the bottom. it was really close, took me a couple tries, but eventually she just made it.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
um... idea-wise, it's great. avoiding killing the enemy is a real pineapple pizza. it seemed to be pretty well balanced (impressive considering the re-used map) so that it was just barely possible. unless i missed something of course. but the fact that it didn't really flow with the storyline was kind of a bummer. i consider winning by letting the druid die to be a bug, especially since you get the same ending. nonetheless, you get to the tree and suddenly the sun is rising in her window? or something? also there are numerous other potential continuity errors which i believe have been quite sufficiently explained by other contributors. also found it to be a fairly anticlimactic ending to the scenario.
Overall I'd give it a 6-7, if it were not the finale.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
-add multiple endings. a) you kill like 40 elves and the faction packs it in and goes underground, but problems may arise down the road and it's a very sad day for everybody in elfland, although the druid gains a lot of supporters. b) you capture the leader (by placing him in a zone of control with, or maybe just near, the druid) without killing a lot of enemies and she does her mindmeld thing and convinces him that this isn't the war he's looking for. everybody else is so impressed that their brothers sisters and pets didn't have to get killed for the war to end that they decide that humans are actually not mindless killing machines and there is peace. c) the druid dies in a flash of blinding light and people realize they just killed their holiest holy person. the rising in places stops happening and you can just kill the leader to win.

maybe the rising in places could work by giving cash to the leader who's got a keep that he hangs out in, thus keeping him away from the front lines.

although even given all that it still seems a bit strange that they up and attack the people who brought peace to the entire realm. maybe the leader is revealed as a necromancer who was subverting the elves through dastardly mind control techniques. what happened to that lich that disappeared in the foggy level? it would be cool to have some kind of hinting towards all this in the earlier scenarios.

Valstorm23
Posts: 1
Joined: September 28th, 2007, 6:04 pm

Isane!

Post by Valstorm23 » September 28th, 2007, 6:15 pm

I regard this mission as the WORST one could ever make.

Okay first off the elves come back stronger... like doesn't matter what you do ehh?

The person meant to parlay isn't there or it's NOT clear how I'm supposed to get that person to parlay. (Was I supposed to lure the enemy leader to the tree???)

Cannot recall MY promoted units.. JEEEZUS!!!!!
A bug in my current version, I can recall after a few turns but there are 10 duplicates of each promoted unit. Are we meant to be able to recall units on that map or not? I wasn't sure so I just stopped trying.

After reading here it seems you are meant to lure the ENEMY hero/leader to the tree. Now that just sucks to know now.

So yep very annoying.

What I would change, give the mission briefing a better description.
Fix the recall option.

How hard is it at moment: IMPOSSIBLE.

Mabuse
Posts: 2130
Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Glitch much?

Post by Mabuse » November 4th, 2007, 11:35 pm

Hey I think this campaign's pretty fun and it's a job well done. I don't know if this is the place to post this but since it's a bug that only pertains to this map I thought I would...

Check out the pic below. Seems like somehow I can recruit characters from the last two campaigns and ethiliel can be recruited twice!

Now I'm kinda noob so I don't know which version I'm playing. I just downloaded the windows version off the site though.
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Mabuse
Posts: 2130
Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Post by Mabuse » November 6th, 2007, 1:58 pm

HI !

@Mabuse:

Cant add something to the Topic, but want to say that it is STRANGE that you have the same USERNAME like me, and that you registered the same Date as me.

It may now sound confusing, but i am confused, too.

We are definately NOT the same Person ;), i never sumbitted that Posting :?

So how can i alter my Username ?

P.S: And before that, it showed that the Account has "0 Posts" - now we both have 1.

I think its some Kind of Error.

Matt Hammer
Posts: 4
Joined: January 22nd, 2006, 12:36 pm
Location: London UK

Re: South Guard 8a. Vengeance

Post by Matt Hammer » January 22nd, 2008, 10:17 pm

1) 1.3.14 Normal
2) Just plain irritating
3) Unclear as they simply state to stop the elves from ransacking the city. Subsequently when they start attacking me, i defend and then hit back. Then when you kill them they respawn. I assumed it was a scenario like in many games where you have to hold out for X number of turns.
It was only due to the fact that i was so bemused the elves should turn on me after the earlier support, that i logged onto the forums and started reading something about a tree.
I'm on turn 10 now on the scenario ... swamped with elves and still have no knowledge of this damned tree or how to win the scenario
4) Storyline was fine until this end scenario, which has thoroughly spoiled it as suggested by previous posters. There is no continuity with the elves suddenly turning against you having supported them throughout.
5) The objective given seems to contradict the actual object which has something to do with a tree. i.e. defend against the elves, but dont kill any as they will respawn ...... o .... kay.
6) I'd probably enjoy this as a single scenario to have plenty of fights, but to end a campaign this way is awful.
7) Personally i would have stretched the middle out more, travelling through more areas to get to the Lich in the first place and have that actual defeat as the final scenario. Sc7 was an unnecessary and unhindered journey and Sc8 as above was farcical.
It just reads as though the someone wanted to add an extra few scenarios after the death of the Lich and came up with the 5min whizz through sc7 and this non-sensical last one.

Rant over :D

I'll save this game and come back to it in future if i just want to go nuts and kill stuff, but as for the campaign i'll just go and start a new one. I may start reading the scenario threads in advance. yes it may spoil the surprise, but if its another like this then i'd like to know in advance ;)

Kaptain
Posts: 2
Joined: February 6th, 2008, 11:17 pm

Re: South Guard 8a. Vengeance

Post by Kaptain » February 7th, 2008, 12:26 am

Eleazar wrote:(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

(1) Difficulty Medium, Version 1.2.8 on a Macbook with Leopard
(2) From Impossible to Very Easy once I understood how to do it
(3) Clear ;) The only problem is with the timing they are revealed...
(4) The dialog is not bad, the problem is that this scenario absolutely does not fit in with the rest of the campaign. It really seems it has been added in a second time, and possibly not by the original author ^_^
(5) I did not encounter any real challenge, I only had to redo the scenario once I discovered my real objective, since when I heard about the tree I already had a swarming army of Elves chasing me (Ithelden was dead - by the way)
(6) I give it a 4...
(7) To me, the best possible change would be to remove this scenario from the campaign. It has bugs (my recall screen listed from 4 to 5 copies of every unit I have ever had during the campaign - I even had two versions of the white mage, one was lvl 3 and the others were lvl 2!), it has been poorly planned (SmokemJags said it all about the general design), and, most of all, kind of ruins what otherwise would be a very nice campaign. I am a total newbie of this game and this was my first campaign after the tutorial, but it persuaded me to keep the game and continue to play, so it must have some good work behind ;) But this last scenario... well... it would have been better to just close the campaign after the Lich's death.

I attach another screen of the multiple recall list...
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Lyinar
Posts: 13
Joined: February 18th, 2008, 1:23 am

Re: South Guard 8a. Vengeance

Post by Lyinar » February 18th, 2008, 7:49 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?

Medium, 1.2.8

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

To complete the stated objectives? 10. I advanced forward in a phalanx with healers supporting the frontlines, but was quickly bogged down in endless elves. To just win? 1. Dead easy - let the elf-girl get dead, which is exactly what happened when I tried to make her do an end-run around the elves once my phalanx got bogged down.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Not at all clear, apparently, giving that defending Westin causes an endless horde of Elves to sprawl across the lands, making it impossible for you to bring the druidess to the tree ... which is moot, because her getting killed ends the scenario in the same way.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Awful. Awful, awful, awful. After all this - I save the elves from the bandits, I save the elves from the undead, I restore peace and well-being to the South - they go and TURN on me? Try to burn Westin to the ground? And what - because they think I killed Ma'brin (when he was still alive and Elfy and not undead)? Did those elves that came back with Gerrick say NOTHING to the others?

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

The elf respawns come in right on top of the bloody meeting tree.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

1. The story 'breaks' here, and the frustration of dealing with these damn elves is an enjoyment killer.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Replace it.

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