South Guard 7b. Pebbles in the Flood

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Anym
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Re: South Guard 7b. Pebbles in the Flood

Post by Anym » April 5th, 2008, 12:04 am

(1) Civilian (Beginner), 1.4, English [US]

(2) 2: This, again, was way too easy, even for the lowest difficulty level IMHO. It's a huge step down again from the previous scenario, even in its rebalanced version. I effortlessly survived for 107 turns and could have probably survived 107 more, having already taken out Mal Tera and slowly but surely leveling more troops all the way up into Highwaymen. Not being able to recruit Thugs would by itself probably be quite a boost to the difficulty level. When I died, it was only because at turn 100 I had grown weary of it and started a blind offensive dying only in the direct attack upon Mal M'Brin himself. I'm confident that I could have defeated him, too, if I had waited even longer.

(3) Very clear.

(4) Very clear, interesting and flavourful.

(5) Not falling asleep after turn 40 or so.

(6) 7: It had a great atmosphere, which was in the long run marred by the fact that the undead weren't completely overrolling me and that I could have held much, much longer than it was interesting to do so. If the number of undead increased exponentially over time or something, so that you really could feel "Pebbles in the Flood", I think I might have rated it even higher.

(7) Like I said above, make it harder, on this difficulty level as least, or at least make sure that the defenders will reliably get overwhelmed by the time they have ensured optimal starting conditions for the next scenario.
I look just like Bobbin Threadbare.

psvensson
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Re: South Guard 7b. Pebbles in the Flood

Post by psvensson » August 12th, 2008, 1:36 pm

[quote="Eleazar"](1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?

The hardest ("normal"?), 1.4.3

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

Easy, in that a poor showing doesn't seem to cause any problems for the next scenario.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

There isn't that much dialog...

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Formulating strategy, which I guess is at it should be. First time I played, Gerrick lasted 10 turns. Second time, 16 turns. I usually don't replay scenarios to see if I can better my results, so that's a sign I liked it.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

At first, I thought it was pretty depressing, but in the end, I thought it was a novel and interesting challenge.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

It's unclear to me what, if any, effect Gerrick's longevity has on the next scenario, the finale of the campaign. The certainly wasn't a difference in the number of units or my starting gold between the two times I played, at 10 turns and 16 turns. Could it be that the opponent's starting gold diminishes for every turn Gerrick lives? If so, that should be stated.

lsummer28
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Re: South Guard 7b. Pebbles in the Flood

Post by lsummer28 » November 8th, 2008, 4:45 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Recruit, 1.4.2

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5, I guess, hard to say when you know you're going to die.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Not very. I would really rather know what I'm accomplishing by living until turn X. I think it would be great for Hylas to do some kind of mental contact thing and tell Gerrick what he's accomplished, e.g., "Gerrick, we have rounded up 400 gold for the defense of Westin...Gerrick, we have rounded up three units of Guard remnants from outlying towns," etc., by surviving until this turn.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
I thought it was good. I felt that little bubble of justification for believing in the bandit guy <g>.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
I do not think well when I know I'm doomed to failure. I still don't know what the best strategy is. I didn't move units very far from the keep, so that reinforcements came in immediately to deal with the nasties from the southeast. I only lasted until turn 12.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
I'll be generous and give it a 6. I kind of wanted it to be over with by about turn 7, but there were bright spots. I killed a lot more Death Guards than I thought I would, and I had some fun working stuff over by moving Gerrick and the lieutenants around to maximize their leadership over the thuggery. My least favorite moment was promoting one of the human macemen, moving him into the keep to help in the last defense, and then watching him NOT HIT ANYTHING for about three straight combats while almost every enemy blow landed and he died an ignoble, pathetic, worthless, phlegm-spewing death. Okay, let's say 4.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
It's an interesting idea, turns normal gameplay on its head, but there's a maximum to how fun a guaranteed loss is. I would actually adjust the terrain a little and make it a shade more defensible. Put a another hilly area over on the west of the keep.

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TheJM
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Re: South Guard 7b. Pebbles in the Flood

Post by TheJM » January 10th, 2009, 5:44 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Easy, 1.5.7

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7, although if you don't really try, it would be a lot easier. I mean, You finish by getting your leader killed, so.. yeah.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear, although it might help if I knew how I was helping by getting slaughtered here..

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Clear.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Umm.. Surviving against level threes with only level ones.. lol. The footpads/thugs were surprisingly effective though, I took down quite a few draugs..

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6, It's not very fun to get slaughtered, but it's interesting just because it's different.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I read that you get better defenses on the next map after certain turns. Maybe after you've reached the last one, you could have a huge undead army materialize behind the defenders and take them out? Not that they had any problems anyway, I held out to turn 30 before my leader got killed by two bone shooters (it hurts to be attacked by two of them without any ranged attack..)

Rapturous
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Re: South Guard 7b. Pebbles in the Flood

Post by Rapturous » January 14th, 2009, 2:18 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?

Normal, 1.4.7

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

How to rate this? Um. I guess 8, since I only started the next mission with two extra units (I'm assuming that's bad).

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Perfectly.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

The dialogue here was fantastic. I thought Deoran was a little too accepting of Gerrick's sacrifice, but I guess the gravity of the situation didn't leave them to be tearful and argumentative over this. It seemed like Gerrick truly needed this willing sacrifice. I also loved Urza willing to put his life on the line to atone for his sins. It made ME forgive him for being a murderous, thieving bandit. Great job, guys.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

I guess understanding the terrain. I was still a novice at the game when this scenario came up, and I didn't realize that using the far corners of the map might be best. Create a chokepoint to keep Gerrick alive ASAP. Only thing I'd have to worry about is wraiths coming over the mountains. Nevertheless, my strategy of using the guard areas didn't seem to work well, nor my clumping of mediocre units--quickly wasted away. The added zombies didn't help, either. So, I had a poor strategy, but I learned from it.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

9. I absolutely loved this concept. A scenario where there is no win or lose? You're simply trying to survive as long as possible to make the next scenario easier? Fantastic. Loved it, and it went with the storyline extremely well. Many RPG's would just overshadow this scene, and the next battle would be at the castle with Deoran, but in this game, you had to fight it out AS Gerrick. Just fantastic. This made me fall in love with the diversity the game had to offer, and made me curious what other creative scenario objectives would follow.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Hmm. Maybe give Urza better dying dialogue. Instead of talking about never seeing his home again. I mean, we're assuming he knows he's going to die here, so it doesn't make much sense that he's woebegone about never seeing his home again. Maybe something more like--I'm glad I was able to atone for my sins. Something to that effect. Other than that, I think it was just great.

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jaimeastorga2000
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Re: South Guard 7b. Pebbles in the Flood

Post by jaimeastorga2000 » August 1st, 2009, 6:17 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

1. Soldier (Normal) on Windows XP (game version 1.6.4)

2. The question doesn't apply to this scenario.

3. Brutally clear. Just gotta keep the former second in command as long as possible to buy time.

4. Deoran mentions that they must not have rooted all the undead at the woods. This is a nonsensical comment; they weren't able to get under the fortress and they were chased by the undead throughout the last mission. EVERY single battered remnant of his army should know the undead are still marching north; that was the whole point of their decision to escape the forest and prepare the defenses! Also, the bandit guy volunteering to die is totally out of character; he lied to Deoran and company during the fog mission to save his life. It should have been Deoran's second in command who was the only one staying behind, and the bandit should have continued onward. The lich's comment at the end is extraneous. The conversation where Deoran leaves is okay, but it could have had a bit more emotional impact.

5. Okay, here is the thing. The undead force is too powerful. There is absolutely no chance of killing the draugs who lead the attack, and most of your units get killed without getting the chance to take out a single enemy unit that matters. This makes whatever choices the player make feel useless; no matter what you do, your units can't buy a few more turns than if you had just let them stand on their starting positions. About the only thing you can do to increase the time you last is move the leader to one of the northern corners. Managed to last 12 turns.

6. Scenario has a lot of potential, but it needs polish. As mentioned above, it wasn't very fun to just get steamrolled over.

7. Have the undead start closer to the castle, so things won't take as long. Make the undead units weaker; they will still win by virtue of sheer numbers (since you can't recruit or recall), so there is no need to sick level three monsters on the player. Give the player a few more units, and make some of those units stronger, so they can do more with their tactics to buy time. Put the fortifications a bit closer together, and a closer to the edge of the map. Surround both sides at the north with deep water (or some other impassable terrain) so the leader won't be tempted to run to the corners; this is supposed to be a heroic last stand, but from a gameplay perspective it makes more sense to make him flee so that he may last longer.

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Vendanna
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Re: South Guard 7b. Pebbles in the Flood

Post by Vendanna » September 5th, 2009, 5:20 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?

Difficulty: Easy on 1.7.3

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

Irrelevant, its supposed to kill you soon. I lasted 7 turns only to advance quickly to the next level but found something weird.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Very clear, its a heroic last stand.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Sounds ok.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

The major challenge I found is that once my leader gets killed, the game "autoloads" instead of advancing, which is unjust.

The ancient lich "auto evades" all attacks is a bit lame, but then you could end killing him andbreak the next level.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

Not very funny, people doesn't enjoy to be "exterminated" without chance... tought leveling a paladin is feasible. It doesn't makes sense that the bandits joins forces instead of advancing forward.

It would be best if the bandit leader follows into next escenario and be able to redeem himself, than to kill him on this "transition escenario"

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

a) Test if you can advance to next level from here when the protagonist dies, instead of restarting the level :augh:
b) Transfer a different "ally" to die for honor and allow the bandit to go to the next level to "redeem" himself.
c) Remove the merfolk for the "recruit list" they are totally useless in there.
d) if the ancient lich is "unkillable" at least make him say so "in battle" when you fight him, I reached him before dieing and "magically" all attacks missed and that looks lame :|
"Mysteries are revealed in the light of reason."

Deakon
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Re: South Guard 7b. Pebbles in the Flood

Post by Deakon » January 15th, 2011, 1:36 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
The soldier level (normal) 1.8.5 for Mac
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
I rated 10 because you not meant to have any chance of beating the enemy
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
keeping gerrick alive and "hold the line" This is simple, but in theory does not make any difference in surviving as long as you can. This scenario is about "delaying, and frustrating the enemy" so Deoran can muster up better defenses in next scenario.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Bit weak, This is scene where everyone is going to die right to the bitter end, so dramatics and frightened troops need some inspired speech, no one likes to see comrades turn into zombies
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Holding back an endless horde of powerful undead. I have tried a number of strategies and all pretty much fail if you hold the line, attack (tried to knock out zombies quickly to reduce flow of undead-the leader would come out and kill the most powerful unit-usually about to level up) Found retreating to north east corner was an option much better to protect than centre.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
When I first played I was enthusiastic but demoralised there after for I felt no hope of surviving more than 11 turns. Adding Hope will give fun factor in a hopeless scenario. In the wiki it said your defenses improve, you get more support at turn 6 etc. I was in negative coins finishing max unit, and the entrenchments were pathetic (actually all castles/fortresses/villages were bad against missiles and melee--these areas are blood baths in seiges for attackers) and so was some terrain like mountains, you will always be out flanked no matter how you muster your troops in line.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
•Zombies! In general are way to strong. With the number of zombie related films around over the years (latest zombieland) you think these so called dumb mindless creatures be a little more dumber than a peasant. Fun factor is killing them by the drove, seeing three zombies taking down one of your men is more heroic than one. the plague factor and a slight defense in killing them are the factors that balance it from low movement and attacking power (1 attack!)
There was a chance to stem the flow by killing zombie leader but he was just to hard to kill with low level troops.

•Shades! I tell you these undead I hate the most, they are damn useful scouts and disappear if you forget last move. I like to see mountains and daylight-reduce strength of attacks especially backstab to make them weaker. Mountains especially rugged ones in Wesnoth should be damn slow to move-using the day/night turn it unbelievable how some units can travel quickly.
I dont know the points for this unit but in this and the next scenario shades were abundant and damn annoying over terrain that usually slows normal troops and the zone thang.

•We are now back in Wesnoth territory and we have to rely on two bandit units to pop up the masses.Relying on one or two types of units makes it very dull. I find this very disappointing in game play, hear we are sent down to find out cause of southern guards, fight the enemy that helped bring undead, and then rely on them for a few scenarios cause Wesnoth troops are ill equipped to fight undead? Bandits are cool and are great scouting parties good for impact, but they do not have skills of trained soldiers who fight better in mass or discipline. The bandits alliance was only for finding source of undead and getting back to home territory, you think with justice and law with wesnoth kingdom they would seek it and so alliance would finish.

•Leadership skill on some of the lieutenants didnt do bugger all despite the amount of units Iower level than they are.

•Defenses seem to far apart, rugged terrain I thought would slow up or stop units flanking with units protecting gaps. It was better to defend in corner though ice and water still didnt help.

WanderingHero
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Re: South Guard 7b. Pebbles in the Flood

Post by WanderingHero » June 16th, 2011, 8:05 pm

I'm playing 1.9.6 and I found a hilarious oversight letting me stall for infinite turns.
I have Sir Gerrick, parked on a town, all on his own, surrounded by undead and one exp point from leveling up..... the computour won't attack!

The ai is so desperate not to trigger my ALMA that they will surround him and utterly grind to a halt. I have inadvertently created an infinite stall. Do I win a cookie?

podbelski
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Re: South Guard 7b. Pebbles in the Flood

Post by podbelski » July 23rd, 2011, 12:12 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
1.9.6, top difficulty, 150gp, no reloads

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
According to wiki, milestones are 6th, 22th and 24th turns. I'd say it is very easy to survive for 6 turns (like "1/10"), and is impossible to be alive by turn 22. My Gerrick was killed in turn 10.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
I was simply rolled over by the undead, nothing helps.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
Probably 3 or 4 as is. The storyline is kinda ok, but you are so helpless that it does not look like you are delaying the undead. Also, by itself it's not fun at all to see how everyone dies w/o a chance to survive/make something truly helpful for the last battle. Also, I was disappointed that my bandit was not carried over to the next scenario even if I saved him from death.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
IMO the scenario does not meet it's proposed goal - to create a feeling that Gerrick heroically delays the undead winning some time for the final battle. Somehow rebalance the map, either create a clear chokepoints or weaken the undead or strengthen loyalists, so the battle makes sense.

Also, the bandit should be carried over to the next scenario, starting severely wounded. Even if he "dies" here I think it's great to turn it the way like he escaped wounded and was able to join the main forces in Westin. I mean this does not change campaign difficulty at all, but adds fun for sure.
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Groundworm
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Re: South Guard 7b. Pebbles in the Flood

Post by Groundworm » September 5th, 2012, 4:02 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
1.6.3, normal difficulty

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
11. It's not that you're not supposed to be able to win- that much is clear and it's an entertaining change of pace. It's the fact that the forces they throw against you are *so* overwhelming, you don't stand a chance. Most of my units died before they were even able to be promoted. Also, there's no point whatsoever in recruiting anything other than footmen... anything else dies to a single unit.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Not an issue- the scenario is quite clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
A little unrealistic- Deoran says "we escaped the forest, but there are undead chasing us! who could have seen that coming!?" Gerrick: "you run! I'll die to protect my country! Remember us!". Urza: "I'll sacrifice my life too, with this man I don't know and don't like... to atone for my sins!" Deoran: "Thank you! You will be avenged"!
Needed a bit more of a set up... as it is, it didn't make me care all that much.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Not getting hopelessly overrun by zombies. I barely managed to make it to turn 15. Surviving long enough to get the greatest number of bonus units I get in the next scenario is literally impossible, and that's just bad design.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
3. The first time I played it, I thought it was innovative. By the tenth, trying to survive longer and being unable to, it was extremely frustrating.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Either spawn fewer enemy units, or lower level enemy units, or a combination of both. Starting the scenario with a healer unit also would have been invaluable, as would allowing heavy infantry to be recruitable.

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Seldam
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Re: South Guard 7b. Pebbles in the Flood

Post by Seldam » December 23rd, 2012, 9:30 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
easy; 1.10.5;

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
It is a 100% defeat, but part of the scenario. It's alright.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Perfectly clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Creative idea. I like this part.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
To survive as long as possible.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
I would say 6. It is really okay and entertaining.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Maybe if you can win if you really play good enough, but I think that's not necessary. It's okay like it is.
Attachments
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The replay for this scenario.
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Kaiserdrache
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Re: South Guard 7b. Pebbles in the Flood

Post by Kaiserdrache » March 8th, 2013, 12:03 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?

Normal, 1.10.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

6 - quite challenging.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Crystal clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Crystal clear with good dialogues.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Dealing with totally useless troops on my side.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

6, one of the better ones.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Read what I wrote to former scenarios and loyal allies! Some dark units and / or some impact damage would have made a huge difference. This was one of few scenarios ever where I had to reload a couple of times, because my loyals were slaughtered. Not really funny.

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Pewskeepski
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Re: South Guard 7b. Pebbles in the Flood

Post by Pewskeepski » April 19th, 2013, 2:46 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
"Normal" difficulty, Version 1.11.2.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
Depends on how long you wish to live. I got all the way to turn 12.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
It's good.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
There were none.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
4. Marching into a slaughter...

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Maybe make the battle last a little longer by weakening the enemy? With the way it is now, it doesn't feel like we've accomplished much since I only survived for about a whole day, and then spent the next 6 turns running Gerrick into the hills away from the battle. Of course, then it would probably be too easy to kill Mal M'Brin when you're not suppose to, but I can't imagine how one could survive for 24 turns on this difficulty... Maybe on Beginner it's possible.

(8) How well done did you find the map for the scenario?
It seems strange for the liches to have castles (as opposed to camps) when they're traveling.
Attachments
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Run, Gerrick, run!
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kiss
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Re: South Guard 7b. Pebbles in the Flood

Post by kiss » July 30th, 2014, 1:20 pm

What? ... This game is definitively full of surprises.

As I already know, nearly everything is possible, I'm expecting for infinite waves from the enemies.
I'm not confident enough to attack, thus I can only prevent loss as much as possible, while retreating with Sir Gerrick as far as possible.
My first thought was to build 2 lines between starting positions with new units, but when I count how many are needed to build only one it seems impossible! Foremost, an horizontal line isn't that good because each unit in front of the line (south here) can be attacked by 3 units. The best line shape is that / or that \. And the last position with such shapes are upper corners.
Looking at both corners, the west's one is better. This sounds good with the strongest enemy on southeast.
The last decision is about recruitments. I'm not sure I can afford 2 turns, I'll decide after first enemy's move.

Strategy: rally the northwest corner with Sir Gerrick, form as many lines as possible in front of him, the strongest units the nearest they can be.

Turn 1, ..., 12, Now, wait and see!

Turn 13, ..., 20: Over.

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Civilian (beginner) 1.10.7

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
1

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
It is short, but clear enough.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
I success in what I had planned, but no idea if it's great or poor!

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10) 8
Introducing a new problem is fine.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

No idea.
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