South Guard 6b. The Long March

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South Guard 6b. The Long March

Post by Content Feedback » March 9th, 2006, 1:11 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

SmokemJags
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Post by SmokemJags » March 14th, 2006, 1:31 am

1. hard 1.1.1
2. trivial (1)
3. pretty clear
4. good dialogue... zero action
5. Playing 'follow the leader' that's a tough one
6. I followed the bandit... captured 1 town, killed 1 naga. How fun does it sound? 1
7. I was kinda curious what would happen if you did your own thing, but decide to follow the bandit since I couldn't recruit or recall any troops.

I don't see the point of this scenario... you follow him, kill 1 unit, and you're done.
Wouldn't a large piece of dialogue before the next scenario be better to simply explain that rather than spending time running through a forest yourself? I mean... it's not like anything interesting happened or the player had a chance to level up any of his units...
"A wise man speaks when he has something to say. A fool speaks when he has to say something."

Kvasir
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Post by Kvasir » March 14th, 2006, 8:56 pm

1) easy 1.0.2
2) 1
3) very clear although I didn't follow it to trigger the traps
4) decent
5) healing wounded units
6) 3
7) too easy, more dangerous traps and maybe some traps on the main path could be useful

PieterW
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Re: South Guard 6b. The Long March

Post by PieterW » April 3rd, 2006, 10:18 pm

Eleazar wrote:(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
1: 1.1.2 hard
2: 1
3: clear
4: very good, you really think about it twice before following the bandit, was it really a good idea to betray the elves?
5: nothing
6: 4
7: remove the naga, add a time element where you see units following you (zombies or something)

Tropico
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Post by Tropico » May 4th, 2006, 11:34 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?

- Easy, 1.1.2a

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

- no difficulty at all

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

- easy, just follow the thief.. I have to wonder what would hav happened if I hadn't though, oh well

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

- It was good, the thief's insistence that I hurry up and all the dire warnings from my generals made for some cool tension during the whole thing.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

- Well, when we got to the medusa the bandit cheerfully ran ahead of everyone else and got himself killed, so I had to keep going by myself.. other than that pretty straightforward.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

- 7, it was cool, but could have used more combat

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

- I tihnk you shoul be ambushed by elves or bandits instead of a -medusa- that was a little out of the blue

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Post by Jozrael » November 9th, 2006, 12:53 am

This scenario is, in my opinion, [censored].

I followed the bandits instructions loyally. At the river, he runs ahead, gets killed by the naga right away, and I lose.

Um...porque?

(I played on Hard).

So, then I decided to strike out north and ignore his directions and try to gain the support of the elves again, since the dialogue made me think that maybe following him is the wrong idea.

So, I get to a keep...and no way across. There's all deep water and mountains, which means he HAS to follow the bandit. WTF? So I search all along the mountains and run out of time this time.

I never encountered any 'traps', so I guess I just stepped in different areas, and I explored the whole map with my peeps and mermen trying to find a point. Basically, the point is hope on random chance that the bandit doesn't die? It particularly annoyed me because it's my first time through and I don't like saveloading at all.

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Post by Soliton » November 9th, 2006, 1:44 am

Jozrael wrote: I followed the bandits instructions loyally. At the river, he runs ahead, gets killed by the naga right away, and I lose.
A workaround is to use the :droid command when the AI acts [censored].
No need to put up with its stupidity then. :P
"If gameplay requires it, they can be made to live on Venus." -- scott

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zookeeper
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Post by zookeeper » November 9th, 2006, 7:34 am

Jozrael wrote:This scenario is, in my opinion, [censored].

I followed the bandits instructions loyally. At the river, he runs ahead, gets killed by the naga right away, and I lose.

Um...porque?

(I played on Hard).

So, then I decided to strike out north and ignore his directions and try to gain the support of the elves again, since the dialogue made me think that maybe following him is the wrong idea.

So, I get to a keep...and no way across. There's all deep water and mountains, which means he HAS to follow the bandit. WTF? So I search all along the mountains and run out of time this time.

I never encountered any 'traps', so I guess I just stepped in different areas, and I explored the whole map with my peeps and mermen trying to find a point. Basically, the point is hope on random chance that the bandit doesn't die? It particularly annoyed me because it's my first time through and I don't like saveloading at all.
Confirmed, this happened to me too (I don't remember what difficulty I was playing on, probably either one of the middle ones).

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Post by Rhuvaen » February 13th, 2008, 9:47 am

1.) hardest (normal?) on 1.3.16
2.) 9 - ridiculously hard, and the first scenario that I didn't finish in the first try
3.) clear
4.) I think the dialog really misses the mark, here. I'm mistrusting Urza Afalas, but decide to follow him. He says "come this way", and each time I follow his advice there's an immediate elven ambush. It's Deoran who gets ambushed, not Afalas. It just felt seriously wrong to follow him... yet the dialog assumed that it was natural that the elves were after Afalas. Why would they let him pass, then ambush Deoran? Why would Deoran continue to trust him? It all made little sense.

5.) Spawning 2-4 Lvl 2 Elves who can take down a poor mounted leader in the forest in one turn? The whole scenario was just playable because the rhythm of the ambushes is so predictable. So basically I'd end up positioning exactly before triggering the next "ambush". I could see no other way of winning this... the interesting part was the race against time - I only managed to win this in the last round by letting Deoran charge ahead heedlessly after the river :)

6.) lowest score thus far into the campaign, 2

7.) Don't mark the ambush triggers. Let Afalas be ambushed - you can't afford to lose him, right? He at least stands a better chance to survive a round of arrows, too.
I'm just thinking: perhaps of leading the player along with the red markers, let Afalas' moves reveal the path through the forest (i.e. overlay terrain masks of the path as Afalas' progresses). That would make it feel like you really needed Afalas to show the way, and can't afford to lose him. (Or perhaps the player is allowed to lose him, but will have to trudge onward through the forest after doing so)
And finally, don't just give the player brand new level 2's - take something out of the player's recruit list. There's only one more scenario where the player can use his recruits, and it would feel good to see more of one's own units in this scenario once more.

allblue_dream
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Re: South Guard 6b. The Long March

Post by allblue_dream » March 10th, 2008, 10:53 pm

1. Easiest (cuz I was trying to have some fun...) on 1.4

2. 10 (I also found it ridiculously hard. I have not yet passed the level...)

3. Clear.

4. I was confused by the bandit's opening dialogue. How am I supposed to follow him since I control him? And it is frustrating to find that there's no way across the river if you decide not to 'follow' him...

5. Way too many ambushes!!! I sometimes got ambushed twice in one battle. Every five hexes there is a band of elves. I was thinking, maybe the undead and the elves would fight it out themselves, but they came straight at me...speechless

6. It seemed fun at the beginning, but turned out that it was not me playing the game, but the game played with me...Seriously, I have been playing Wesnoth for a year, and there has been no single scenario so frustrating as this one.

7. Give Deoran skirmisher, maybe? :P So he can run all the way to the north. Hell, I was going to have some fun, but this scenario is for the hard-core experienced players, and I'm not sure if they can pass... Has this been seriously redesigned for v1.4? Other people in this thread were saying it was too easy, but definitely not so from my point of view.

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theruler
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Re: South Guard 6b. The Long March

Post by theruler » March 16th, 2008, 11:27 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
1.4.0 normal

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
10! I am currently STUCK.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
clear, quite interesting.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
survive.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
huw fun a massacre would be? 2=frustrating

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I agree with all allblue_dream's comments, and I would like to add:
Remove some ambushes!
I managed to arrive at half map (left path) with all of my heroes alive (Hyilas, horseman Deoran and sir Garrick at lvl3, and pikeman and Urza at lvl2) with several turns wasted for regeneration... and I am 5 turns away from losing the scenario.
There is no way to win the scenario in 40 turns... or with 5 heroes only.
Increase either the turns or the heroes. Or REMOVE some ambush!
I would really like to see the replay of the guy that playtested this scenario. Seriously. Could you please post it? (I am not polemic, May be I am playing it the wrong way).

Another change could be made adding the recall ability. I have in stash more than 900 gold, and 4 lvl 3 archers... that could have been very useful in this scenario.

Give the possibility to chose left path (only elven ambushes, do not let the undeads come into the left path) or the right path (undead fight only)... and make a way out to the north (through the water) even at the end of the right path.

cheers.
Last edited by theruler on March 17th, 2008, 7:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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wnsk
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Re: South Guard 6b. The Long March

Post by wnsk » March 16th, 2008, 6:35 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?

Normal, 1.4

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

9/10. I agree with the previous poster who said this was ridiculously difficult.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

The only thing I remember is "go North". Pretty vague, I thought.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

The tedious and frustrating gameplay (sheer no. of ambushes) severely interferes with my enjoyment of this scenario. Didn't make sense to me that the elves would fight alongside the undead.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Getting past the bloody elves w/o dying.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

I have to say 1/10. The bandit's dialogue led me to believe that following him (to the East) would enable me to avoid the elves, but no, there wasn't any way of sneaking past them w/o triggering off an ambush. That made me feel cheated, in a way. I did not feel like replaying the scenario.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

a) Less high-level elf units; use some low-level units, if only for variation.
b) Elf and undead should attack each other besides the player. That shd level the field a bit.
c) Have the ability to recall some units (but maybe not recruit new ones) at start of mission. That puts a bit more strategy (and hence fun) into the game.

RicardoGCE
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Re: South Guard 6b. The Long March

Post by RicardoGCE » March 23rd, 2008, 10:24 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
1.4.0 - Easy

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
10. Even "cheating" (saving after each individual step to make sure I sidestep all ambush triggers), the undead raids finish me off within 10 turns.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
What little dialog I've read so far has been fine.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Navigating the wood without triggering ambushes and therefore getting obliterated.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
Stepping into the ring with a UFC champion would be more enjoyable. 1/10.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
-If I'm supposed to follow Afalas, then make him an automated player, as he used to be. If I have to determine the path for myself, then I'm not really "following" him.

-Either beef up the player's escort, or make fewer characters vital. Having to keep four characters alive while they're being picked off by Lv2 elves and random undead is next to impossible.

-Make the ambushes a bit less frequent, and not quite so overwhelming. The idea is to give the player a fun challenge, not a frustrating one. I don't mean that the scenario should be as ridiculously easy as it was in previous versions of the campaign, but a "fun challenge" will remain fun regardless of how often the players fails because it will always feel as though you could beat it, if only you planned your moves a bit more carefully. This scenario makes me feel as though all the skill in the world wouldn't help.

-Have the elves and undead fight each other. Having both sides attack my company while ignoring each other feels artificial.

redduke
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Re: South Guard 6b. The Long March

Post by redduke » March 24th, 2008, 9:31 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?

I'm brand-spanking new. Starting the campaigns at easiest difficulty level on 1.4

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

10. Like all the other players using 1.4, I'm getting ambushed by undead and elves every 2 steps. If I had a few more starting armies, I MIGHT make it halfway through this scenario.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

It tells me to go north, okay, I get that objective. Then the bandit tells me to follow him to the west. As another person said, how can I follow him if I'm controlling him? I think I'm supposed to make a decision and one of the trails is easier than the other. Pffft...no way, Jose.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

"Ambush!" and "you're dead" are easy to understand. ;)

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

I don't start out with a fort. I have too few armies. The weapons of my army do poorly against undead and elves in forests. Too few roads or clearings make me fodder for the elves. I get caught up in a bottleneck due to terrain and the slow priest. I only have 1 character who can adequately fight undead. Way, way, way too many ambushes with too many armies and from all sides.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

If you call always getting killed within 9 rounds fun, then this is your scenario.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

If a player chooses to side with the robbers, let the player start with more armies, cut down on the amount of ambushes and the quantity of armies doing the ambushing. Give the player at least one more healer and one more magic user, and clear up the roads and terrain (or give us a trail with less ambushes).

Rogrog
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Re: South Guard 6b. The Long March

Post by Rogrog » March 26th, 2008, 9:47 pm

I only got the game about a week back, and registered on the forum just so I could complain about this scenario.

1. Latest, most difficult available.

2. 11 - I think it's actually impossible as presently implemented.

3. Assuming it doesn't change from 'Go North' to something else mid-way, it's perfectly clear - I've just never made it past about half-way there.

4. It's clear and as interesting as the rest of the storyline (and makes sense in context), though 'punishment' is spelled wrong in the ambush dialogue.

5. Constant ambushes of troop that are capable of killing one of the four people you need to keep alive in one attack. Hordes of undead that outnumber and outpower you - and needless to say can fairly easily kill at least one of the people you need to keep alive in the scenario.

6. 0. As I said before, I'm pretty sure this scenario is impossible as it stands (without cheating) - and that's no fun at all, it's really annoying and frustrating (the opposite of fun).

7. Make the ambushes consist of only one or two level one units, decrease their frequency, and greatly reduce the power of the undead in this scenario. Either that or let the player start out with a base (even one of these would greatly increase player's chances of successfully completing this scenario).

Really, as it stands, this scenario just pretty much ruins the game for people who've just gotten that game (like me) - especially since it's advertised in the tutorial as an introductory experience for the game. Honestly, I feel like the Angry Video Game Nerd Playing 'Silver Surfer' here:
You touch the top of the building - you die.

You touch the ceiling - you die.

You touch the floor - you die.

Too far to the right - you die.

Too far to the left - you die.

You die.

You die.

You die.

Die.

Die.

Die.

Die.

Die.

Die.

Die.

Die.

Die.
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/2030 ... 0&type=mov

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