South Guard 5. Choice in the Fog

Feedback for the mainline campaign The South Guard.

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MrBucket
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Re: South Guard 5. Choice in the Fog

Post by MrBucket » April 21st, 2008, 8:05 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
1: Beginner.
2: 3 or 4.
3: Not clear. Well, the objectives themselves were pretty obvious. The problem is that the choice between thieves and elves wasn't clear cut enough. I had wasted money recalling that girl's royal guard, making some new elven units, stuff like that. Then a few turns later, the girl (who was in the top right of the map getting villages) sees the bandit. I choose to accept the bandit's aid, and all my elven units disappear. I realize I should have seen it coming but it still hurt me a lot (remember I'm a first time player). This mission was easy but I think I will be having some problems on the next map.
4: Fairly interesting, compared to the last few chapters.
5: Losing a large number of units shorltly after spending $$ to hire them.
6: Dunno, maybe around a 6. It was pretty easy, so not really as fun as some of the earlier maps (the lich in the bottom right had almost no units!) but the large map made it kinda fun. Also, the random sea dragon I stumbled across was pretty neat. (Though I really think there needs to be some reward for killing it, I lost a merman fighting it and didn't get anything much in return).
7: Make the choice between the bandits and the elves take place at the start of the chapter. This way you don't muster up a force of elves, lose them halfway through, and have to go back and get more.

cool shakes
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Re: South Guard 5. Choice in the Fog

Post by cool shakes » October 24th, 2008, 8:41 pm

Eleazar wrote:(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
1. The hardest setting on version 1.4.
2. Hard to rate on a scale. 5-ish? 6?
3. Pretty clear--"find the source of the fog [presumably some undead commander] and kill it."
4. The storyline was enjoyable. The dialog wasn't the best (by this point I had gotten kind of sick of the phrase "Taste cold steel!") but it wasn't that bad, either.
5. Two things. First, losing all my elves halfway through the game was no fun at all. I had taken my ally's advice and recruited a lot of level 1 elves at the start, thinking I could level them up throughout the scenario. I had a minor skirmish with some bandits and undead once I crossed the river, and was letting my new elves take as much of the XP gain as possible. Then I lost it all when I decided to go the route of forgiveness--not only the gold and XP investment from the start of this scenario, but also some important positions that the high-level bodyguards were holding against the purple undead. I'm all for choices and branching scenario paths, but not when they have such a drastic effect on the current game state, and not when they're so unexpected.

Second, the monster in the lake. After I lost my elves I thought I'd use the green zombie keep to refresh my forces. I sent one unit to the underwater village to gain a little more income. I remembered that the only other underwater village in the past scenarios (I forget which one exactly) had a bonus of a few free mermen. Instead, this one had a monster. The Loyalist unit I had sent out to capture the village didn't have enough movement to make it out of the shallow water, so he was a sitting duck. When it finished with him, the monster went on to ravage the rest of the area, chasing my slow-moving units several hexes through the swamps and even a few into the forest.

6. Fun? This? Not so much. I'd give it a 4. Not just for what I described above, but also for a lot of wandering around in the fog with no sight of enemy movement. Even when I restarted the scenario and kept my elves, there was still a lot of downtime. I didn't see a single enemy during the entire trek from the bandits' camp to the lich's castle.

7. I would suggest making the consequences of the titular choice more explicit, or make the choice occur at a point when the player can recover quicker. I'd also suggest making the map smaller to reduce movement time, or throw in some miscellaneous forest critters to provide something to fight along the way.

lsummer28
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Re: South Guard 5. Choice in the Fog

Post by lsummer28 » November 8th, 2008, 4:11 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Recruit 1.4.2

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4, because I blundered into Nessie.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
As clear as they needed to be.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Very interesting. The elves getting p.o.d and leaving is a good touch. I thought I was taking the hard branch at that point, although now having played the whole campaign I realized I wanted all those rogue bludgeoners to deal with the undead.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
I got cute and ran a merman over to check out the thingy in the lake, hoping I could recruit more trident-wielders (I'd gotten my one volunteer killed off long ago). Nessie was not quite as hard as I anticipated. What's ridiculous is that I ran all my level 2 units over to kill it and still defeated the undead with ease.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8, and that despite the easy gameplay.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Toughen up the undead in the southeast, for sure. The ones by Nessie aren't too bad for a subsidiary force.

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Turuk
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Re: South Guard 5. Choice in the Fog

Post by Turuk » December 17th, 2008, 5:29 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Soldier (Normal) 1.5.6

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4. The bandits and the undead are not too much of a challenge, as they are so far apart from each other that they can be dealt with separately. The undead coming up behind the bandits means that if you choose not to side with them, the undead and bandits will kill each other off.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Crystal.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
It was good, as well-written as the rest has been so far, and I like the idea of a choice. While losing the elves may frustrate the player, there are enough cues by the behavior of Ethiliel that the player should see it coming if they choose to side with the bandits. The undead could do with saying a little something as to the reason he is there.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
None, just took so long to get everywhere.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7. Not too fun due to the length to get everywhere (spent doing nothing but moving) but the little battles were fun, and the map is nice, even if a bit bare of enemies to kill.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Potentially move the Soulless leader keep up a bit on the west side in order to engage the player further, and not spend so much time heading south. But good force management is always the name of the game.
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TheJM
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Re: South Guard 5. Choice in the Fog

Post by TheJM » January 10th, 2009, 5:24 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Easy on 1.5.7

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4.. It's even easier when you replay. I first played this not knowing what was where, and I didn't ally with the bandits that time. the enemies are far enough apart that you can wipe out the soulless and wait for the bandits and lich's forces to kill each other and then sweep through killing survivors. Pretty easy. After doing the elvish path, I came back and replayed this map to do the bandit path. Sent the shyde to the bandits immediately (shoulda waited a few turns to let him recruit..) and took my force down and wiped the soulless out wayy faster than the last time cause I knew where they were and how hard they were. The bandit didn't really have problems with the undead and I sent him and a few of the faster units to take care of the lich. Pretty easy..

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear. Kill everything in your path. ;)

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
I like, although it is a tad abrupt when your elves leave. I'm starting to come to the opinion that elves are jerks.. :lol2:

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Knowing where everything was and getting there. Really didn't have any problems though..

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
5. Not enough of an army from the soulless. He should have a huge amount of troups. Hmm, maybe I should play on normal or hard.. :mrgreen:

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I like Turuk's idea, I think it would be better if the soulless was directly in your path or something.. ;)

DrPepper8
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Re: South Guard 5. Choice in the Fog

Post by DrPepper8 » September 7th, 2009, 8:01 pm

1. Normal, 1.6.4
2. 3 - the bandits took out most of the skeletons before I met them, and 2 of the bandits had already levelled to outlaw by the time I recruited them to my side, so it was fairly straightforward after that!
3. Clear.
4. I'd played it before, so I was prepared for the elves leaving - the first time I played it that was pretty annoying, though. This time I had what I assume was a bug where I encountered the bandit leader and didn't trigger his dialogue - retreating out of sight and then coming forward again triggered it OK though.
5. None.
6. 5.
7. Maybe put a monster or something up in the top right corner of the map, so that any guys going that way have more to do than just claim villages?

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Ferox
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Re: South Guard 5. Choice in the Fog

Post by Ferox » November 9th, 2010, 7:06 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Medium on 1.8.5
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
6
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Mostly clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Pretty boring. I found the dialog amazingly tedious.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Getting the lich.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
4
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
The left side was uninteresting. Replace it.

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Faello
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Re: South Guard 5. Choice in the Fog

Post by Faello » July 7th, 2011, 11:04 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

Soldier - top difficulty level, 1.9.7, no saves/reloads, 278 starting gold

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

4.<staying with the Elves>

This scenario difficulty level is raised a bit by a full fog of war which is a significant obstacle when planning your army build and attack directions. If you want to keep your elven allies with you, you need to choice to not to ally with the bandits. Also, it's important to know that Sir Gerrick dies in the "bandit" branch of this campaign, so if you like your infrantry commander, you need to stay with the bitchy Ethiliel :P .I've decided to play both branches of this campaign to compare them & provide replays, so I'll play this scenario twice and then then both branches scenarios.

Generally speaking, it's not a good thing to do, to just leave bandits alone and let them fight with undeads, since they're expanding quickly and grab a lot of villages in the NE part of the map that allow them to build up quickly. My scouting force with some help from the mermen units took care of them and even at this point, Urza Afalas <lvl2, Outlaw, leader> died in fight with purple UD forces led by mysterious "?" <lvl3, Lich, far [SE] keep> only because he was VERY unlucky - his soldiers were still numerous enough after his death to contain UD until my army came and take them all down.

Probably most annoying opponent here is Gruth <lvl1, Soulless, leader> hiding in the castle deep in the forest, recruiting significant amount of Soulless at top difficulty level, that are fearless and can be a pain in the ass if player isn't careful when dealing with them. On the contrary, Lich recruits only a several lvl2 units (mostly Deathblades and Boneshooters) that die easily when roaming alone without any support. Neither of the AI opponents has a good fixed income and UD opponents have no control over villages whasoever, so all in all, it's quite easy scenario, especially if you will replay it. Finished this one in turn 28/35.

2 losses, 36 kills

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Crystal clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

I like this idea of dividing campaign early and storyline and dialogs are again, very good. I highly rate it.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Destroying the Soulless army, capturing the NE villages and cutting the bandits gold flow.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

8.

It's a good scenario with a huge but quite interesting map and good tactical challenges.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

No changes required, it's good as it is.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

No.

Replay attached:
Attachments
TSG-Choice_in_the_Fog_ELVES_replay.gz
Choice in the Fog replay <ELVES>, Soldier difficulty level, 1.9.7, no saves/reloads
(48.79 KiB) Downloaded 218 times
The yellow jester does not play
but gently pulls the strings
and smiles as the puppets dance
in the court of the Crimson King.

podbelski
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Re: South Guard 5. Choice in the Fog

Post by podbelski » July 7th, 2011, 1:35 pm

Faello,

did you intentionally avoid <16,39> village? I remember something goes out of there

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Faello
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Re: South Guard 5. Choice in the Fog

Post by Faello » July 7th, 2011, 3:15 pm

I forgot about it. I think there's a monster lurking out there, so I'll probably hunt it down in my second feedback review of this scenario, this time for a bandit branch of this campaign.
The yellow jester does not play
but gently pulls the strings
and smiles as the puppets dance
in the court of the Crimson King.

podbelski
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Re: South Guard 5. Choice in the Fog

Post by podbelski » July 9th, 2011, 12:53 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
1.9.6, top difficulty, 252gp, no reloads

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
I was feeling like "3" b/c I knew what to expect... so overall it might be 4. Biggest resistance came from the Lich.

Elves choice, will take another branch later.

finished in turn 30/35, 1 losses 45 kills

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7, very good

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
don't see any
Attachments
TSG-Choice_in_the_Fog_replay.gz
(48.25 KiB) Downloaded 212 times

podbelski
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Re: South Guard 5. Choice in the Fog

Post by podbelski » July 20th, 2011, 3:04 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
1.9.6, top difficulty, 252gp, no reloads

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
Bandits choice this time, I'd say the difficulty is "3" at most. You just have to beat zombies, and a weak stream of purple undead, having a lot of additional units. How to optimally distribute experience was the only question. I've got so relaxed that almost lost one of my loyal units though

finished in turn 31/35, 2 losses 35 kills

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6, good but probably a bit too easy, to the point when it starts to become dull

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
can't advice anything concrete
Attachments
TSG-Choice_in_the_Fog_replay.gz
(42.89 KiB) Downloaded 210 times

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Pewskeepski
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Re: South Guard 5. Choice in the Fog

Post by Pewskeepski » October 10th, 2011, 11:05 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Version 1.9.9, Normal difficulty.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5 if you choose to fight the bandits, 6 if not.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Pretty clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Good as always.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

When playing with elves:
None, unless you count the slight challenge I had keeping footpads from the taking villages in the northern woods.

When playing with bandits:
Because I had no elves, I had to get a new strategy to kill defeat the soulless leader. I sent the white mage with Gerrick and some units, but this created a problem - Deoran and Uzra had no healer and had to rely on impact weapons as they fought against the lich.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6 (both ways). Not as fun as the others due to a lot of marching around with only a few enemies to kill.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
When the player makes his/her choice, the undead leader should get a nice sum of gold. This would make you encounter a squad of undead on the way to the final leader, which would make it more interesting. However, it would probably be necessary to add more turns if this was done.

(8) How well done did you find the map for the scenario?
Great.
Attachments
TSG-Choice_in_the_Fog_replay_2.gz
Allying with bandits.
(39.54 KiB) Downloaded 202 times
TSG-Choice_in_the_Fog_replay.gz
Killing the bandits.
(44.04 KiB) Downloaded 211 times

SBak
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Re: South Guard 5. Choice in the Fog

Post by SBak » October 27th, 2011, 5:47 am

Content Feedback wrote:(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Easy and medium.
Content Feedback wrote:(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
I give this a three as I side with the elves.
Content Feedback wrote:(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Confusing to say the least. On Easy you have lots of turns to explore the forest south of the river? It doesn't become clear until you make the choice, which is only triggered when you clear the fog from the bandit camp.
Content Feedback wrote:(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Up to this point the campaign is a great story, but then it starts going pear-shaped.
Content Feedback wrote:(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Initially it was working out what to do. My biggest challenge is taking care of Sir Gerrick who is useless and I don't even bother with getting him XP. I mean, his movement is five, it's reduced in a forest, he can't take much and if you're lucky he'll take out a footpad but the only thing I've found he can deal with reliably is a walking corpse. He starts to become a liability from Desperate Errand onwards.
Content Feedback wrote:(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
I give this an 8. I stick with elves which makes it a walk in the park. I start out recruiting elvish fighters and shamen and then recall the elvish rangers - the terrain is mainly forest and the rangers with their concealment and ambush come into their own. I send them south as a hit squad for the soulless leader (whilst elvish fighters and shamen deal with the walking corpses with Ethillel, Minister Hylas and Sir Gerrick - he's good for this purpose, you just stand him somewhere and the WCs come to him) and then the rangers come east to handle the thugs after the choice is made. Aleron and Moreth come back in the bandit's keep with the human recalls for the lich. Elvish fighters are great with skeletons.
Content Feedback wrote:(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
What I find is strange is that you get hit by bats in A Desperate Errand but you don't encounter them in this scenario.

I would also get the lich to quit smoking, as he tends to get a bit wheezy when you hit him with a swordsman or Royal Guard.

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taptap
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Re: South Guard 5. Choice in the Fog

Post by taptap » October 28th, 2011, 9:25 pm

It is a very good scenario, just one thing: when I see a huge forest and a river in front of me, I recall two mermen and recruit only elves. When I am presented a choice 5 turns later, it isn't really a choice anymore. To have a choice people have to read spoilers or play it twice, no scenario should force players to do that.

@SBak: Gerrick is great as L3, he can even slow and has impact damage. Even if he had nothing of this, when you have a loyal unit with leadership, you should always level it.
I am a Saurian Skirmisher: I'm a real pest, especially at night.

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