South Guard 4. Vale of Tears

Feedback for the mainline campaign The South Guard.

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Linthar
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Joined: September 14th, 2006, 12:16 am

Post by Linthar » October 8th, 2007, 6:27 pm

1. Normal 1.2.6
2. 2. Steam rolled over everything.
3. The objectives were clear, and it was obvious which house I had to go to.
4. The story is getting interesting, and makes me want to know more.
5. The only point of difficulty came for preventing the bandits from crossing the mountains to steal my villages.
6. 5. The map itself was boring, but the story getting interesting makes up for it.
7. I'd make the undead forces tougher. It seems strange that if the undead are the bigger problem that they are easier to deal with.

Dwachs
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Re: South Guard 4. Vale of Tears

Post by Dwachs » December 18th, 2007, 9:01 am

Eleazar wrote:(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
(1) 1.2.8 medium
(2) the beginning was hard until finishing the undeads. The bandits were then easy to kill.
(3) clear. Melbrin's village was clearly to spot.
(4) Clear.
(5) Beating the undeads in the east. After that I had pretty much troops with much experience, so the bandits where easy to master.
(6) 8
(7) The dying lich said something like 'thank you - now I can rest in peace'. It would be interesting, if he is the result of some 'reanimating' of a dead human soldier.

I find it also disturbing that killed enemy leaders speak after there death: first the enemy disappears on the map and then he speaks. It would be better, if he would first speak (in his very last seconds) and then he disappears.

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Anym
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Re: South Guard 4. Vale of Tears

Post by Anym » April 3rd, 2008, 9:15 pm

(1) Civilian (Beginner), 1.4, English [US]

(2) 1: Now I'm afraid it's getting too easy, even for Beginner level. The only way anybody could lose this seems by letting Magister Hylas or maybe, maybe Ethiliel die under unfortunate circumstances.

(3) Clear.

(4) Clear, but maybe a bit too verbose, especially the exchange between Ethiliel and Sir Gerrick at the end, but thankfully quite interesting.

(5) None whatsoever and I can't even imagine any.

(6) 5: Too easy to be fun, saved only by the fact that the story starts to develop.

(7) Increase the opposition. Even for the lowest difficulty level this seems too little. Maybe Urza Fastik should return if you didn't dispatch him in the previous scenario. Also, considering that Deoran carries a mace, his message that their "weapons are useless against these skeletons" seems a bit misplaced when he's using said mace to engage them. Another slightly off line is Mal A'kai's death message as has been noted several times in this thread already, which makes me wonder if these things get read at all. :P
I look just like Bobbin Threadbare.

lsummer28
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Joined: November 8th, 2008, 3:17 pm

Re: South Guard 4. Vale of Tears

Post by lsummer28 » November 8th, 2008, 4:06 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Recruit, 1.4.2

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
6

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
I thought they were fine.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
I thought they were pretty good. The one guy happy for "release" could use some more explanation, and probably should be made a normal human unit to indicate that he is unusual, and could have some books or notes that explain more of the background of the story. Mebrin going bad is an interesting plot twist.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
I pushed east with everybody including Fearless Leader, then noticed the third column rushing my camp, so I had to hotfoot it back with whatever I could spare. This was the first map where I had to draw on my previous gaming experience and really carefully place units to withstand the next onslaught, bring up the right units to deal with different enemies, etc. I suffered my first substantial losses, which turned out to be inconsequential. The map permitted three routes from the north row to the center row, which made for some fun "strategic" troop allotment decisions. I like maps where I have to apportion troops to different "theaters".

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8, and with the potential to go higher.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Mostly just backstory with the one unusual leader, as noted above. Could be a 10, taking into account that this is a beginner campaign and not meant to be a knife-edge you-lose-if-you-slip-up map.

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Turuk
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Re: South Guard 4. Vale of Tears

Post by Turuk » December 16th, 2008, 10:50 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Soldier (Normal) 1.5.6

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5. Being careful that the undead did not wreck too much havoc involved some careful maneuvering, but all in all it was not too hard.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Crystal.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Well-written, agreed as to what others said about the necromancer's dialogue being a bit random. The interaction between Ethiliel and Deoran is good, and I like the little bit between all three heroes when a unit dies.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
None.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8. I thoroughly enjoyed the map, as well as the challenge of forcing your way up the path. Always being in combat with a number of enemies is a nice change.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
None, enjoyable as it is, though maybe make the green leader a bit more powerful.
Mainline Maintainer: AOI, DM, NR, TB and THoT.
UMC Maintainer: Forward They Cried, A Few Logs, A Few More Logs, Start of the War, and Battle Against Time

rujikin
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Re: South Guard 4. Vale of Tears

Post by rujikin » June 29th, 2009, 9:56 pm

(1) normal 1.7.1
(2) 11
(3) Clear
(4) Very neat, was great to have elves pop in to replace the archers i lost
(5) Skeletal strength and the skeleton commander's resilience.
(6) 10
(7) Make the southern living commander become undead, for failing his master, after the undead's commander dies.

DrPepper8
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Re: South Guard 4. Vale of Tears

Post by DrPepper8 » September 6th, 2009, 7:40 pm

1. Normal, 1.6.4
2. 7. Took several replays before I got through it with acceptable losses.
3. Clear
4. I didn't like the 'you have a bodyguard!' dialogue - I couldn't see what reason the druid would have for only revealing them once someone died. It also didn't feel right that only the elf was worried about my archer dying, while the humans ignored that and just went on about her bodyguard.
5. I had several tries where I was doing pretty well and then lost one of my mission critical characters - guess this was mainly carelessness on my part for putting them in harms way. Killing the undead leader was the toughest part, as it was very hard to completely surround him in a single turn, so he normally got at least 1 kill before I took him down. In the end I left him until last and then just surrounded him with expendable new recruits, which worked out fine.
6. 8. I liked the map and it was a good challenge without being too hard.
7. Nothing comes to mind.

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Faello
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Re: South Guard 4. Vale of Tears

Post by Faello » July 5th, 2011, 2:58 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

Soldier - top difficulty level, 1.9.7, no saves/reloads, 217 starting gold

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

4.

This scenario difficulty level took me offguard and I had to change tactic to more cautious one when compared with my approach to the previous scenarios. AI has initiative through the first part of this scenario and lvl2 UD units recruited by Mal A'kai <lvl3, Necromancer> are hard to deal with, especially when your slow-attacks miss. Jera ilras <lvl2, Outlaw> army is more numerous, but less dangerous than undeads (lvl1 bandits are hardly a serious threat at this point of the game). It was important to distribute the XP to the loyal units on this scenario, since opponents start to get more powerful and numerous.

Finished this one in turn 19/28.

5 losses, 26 kills
Spoiler:
Attachments
TSG-Vale_of_Tears_replay.gz
Vale of Tears replay, Soldier difficulty level, 1.9.7, no saves/reloads
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The yellow jester does not play
but gently pulls the strings
and smiles as the puppets dance
in the court of the Crimson King.

podbelski
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Re: South Guard 4. Vale of Tears

Post by podbelski » July 9th, 2011, 12:46 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
1.9.6, top difficulty, 205gp, no reloads

finished in turn 22/28, 3 losses 27 kills

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
probably 5, the biggest challenge is to crush the undead w/o sad losses. First time I did it, but it was obviously due to insane luck. So I restarted with peasants/pikemen as cannon fodder, I almost feel dirty tricking the AI to chase them :)

Surprizingly, the AI decided to recruit mostly Bone Shooters, in contrast with Revenants in Faello's replay. Somehow those skeletons spoiled my leveling-up plans a bit, as I suddenly found three Royal Guards under my control, and two of them were not loyal :hmm:

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8, battling the undead was a mind bender

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
great as is
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PorkSol
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Re: South Guard 4. Vale of Tears

Post by PorkSol » September 4th, 2011, 7:12 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on? 1.9.8, hard, no save load
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) 6
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives? Just fine.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario? Solid.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario? Breaking through the undead. I tended to underestimate this scenario and try to push through the undead at an unfavorable time of day. That cost me several reloads and it might have cost me another one, but I got lucky a few times on my final run. A more cautious approach using level more 1 fodder is probably a better idea.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10) 8. It is solidly designed. Even though the bandits are a bit weak, they will harass you and open a second front while you're breaking through the undead, diverting your forces.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun? No changes are needed.
(8) Restarts? Several, either because Elthiel died or because I lost a key unit.
Attachments
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1.9.8, hard, no save load
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Pewskeepski
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Re: South Guard 4. Vale of Tears

Post by Pewskeepski » October 10th, 2011, 8:30 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Version 1.9.9, Normal difficulty.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5. Level 2 skeletons can be frightening.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Crystal clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Great.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Bone shooters are tough; Especially at night. And just as I was advancing on the Necromancer, the bandit leader was sending footpads to take some of my villages. This made it interesting because I decided to send the elvish rangers by stealth to try take out the scouts, and retrieve my villages.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8. I'm really enjoying the battles in this campaign :)

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
No changes necessary as far as I'm concerned.

(8) How well done did you find the map for the scenario?
Excellent.
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Kaiserdrache
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Re: South Guard 4. Vale of Tears

Post by Kaiserdrache » November 3rd, 2011, 9:03 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?

Game version: 1.8.5, Difficulty: Easy

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

9 - toughest one so far.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Very clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Clear, but not really interesting.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Dealing with these lots of undead.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

5, I found it very, very hard and quite annoying to replay some rounds.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

I would have replaces some of the woods around the northern temples for plains. All those cavalry bought in the previous scenario would be much more useful.

podbelski
Posts: 151
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Re: South Guard 4. Vale of Tears

Post by podbelski » November 3rd, 2011, 9:41 am

Kaiser,

if you haven't watched pro replays yet (eg Faello's) I really recommend it. The "9" score you give to this and 2nd scenarios mean you miss smth important about the game...

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taptap
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Re: South Guard 4. Vale of Tears

Post by taptap » November 3rd, 2011, 2:49 pm

podbelski wrote:Kaiser,

if you haven't watched pro replays yet (eg Faello's) I really recommend it. The "9" score you give to this and 2nd scenarios mean you miss smth important about the game...
Exactly. Kill fast where possible, retreat where necessary. While it felt embarassing to retreat a whole army (even if only some hexes) vs. two or even a single L2 skeleton, it gives considerably different results if you are the one who attacks first and chooses the kind of attack, it also limits the undead ability to use the night. Use shamans.
I am a Saurian Skirmisher: I'm a real pest, especially at night.

Kaiserdrache
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Re: South Guard 4. Vale of Tears

Post by Kaiserdrache » November 3rd, 2011, 8:09 pm

I said that it was a challenge, I never said something about being impossible. And yes, for a beginner like me it's quite hard to figure out that a good retreat is sometimes better than an all-out attack.

My 9 still stands, sorry. The South Guard was mentioned after the introduction specifically as a beginners campaign. I'm a beginner, so what? And it was my first time playing the scenario, so I could only guess what would come. Maybe, if you ask me in six months I'll gladly admit that it's quite easy. But for someone who just downloaded the game and plays his fourth scenario, it's really hard. And once again - yes, you're right if you mention that practice and knowledge of the units' special abilities help massively. I'm learning. Probably for the next noideahowmany scenarios :)

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