Scenario 1: Rooting out a Mage

Feedback for the mainline campaign A Tale of Two Brothers.

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jg
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Post by jg » November 5th, 2006, 5:31 pm

What unit would you suggest then?

jg

Lone_Isle
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Post by Lone_Isle » November 6th, 2006, 2:00 pm

hmm, perhaps thieves? They have the defensive rate of footpads yet they can do some potentially decent damage if the player learns to use their backstab....

Hmm if that dont work maybe if the undead side got abit of variety so that your spearmen and bowmen are not completely useless and you wouldnt have to rely on footpads that much.

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Post by Casual User » November 7th, 2006, 3:10 am

ivanovic wrote:(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
(1) Easy and Hard, 1.0.2 and 1.1.9

(2) 3 on Easy, 6 on Hard

(3) Clear

(4) Clear but not very interesting. More background on our heroes, and a more elaborate set-up for the fight, would be nice.

(5) Killing skellies with spearmen, bowmen and horseman.

(6) 4

(7) Yes, lose the skellies.

That black mage could be recruiting walking corpses, bats, ghouls and adepts. They all have interesting abilities and specials which make them more fun to deal with than skeletons (I find skellies to be the least interesting of the undead units by far).

And, guess what, you can actually fight them with the units you have...

talkitron
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Post by talkitron » November 29th, 2006, 3:50 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?

Hard (easy several monts ago) 1.1.12

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

4, not hard

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Very, kill enemies

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Not very interesting, the whining by the knight brother didn't add much without visual support

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

As others have said, the main idea here is to figure out to recruit footpads and use the provided troops for mop up only

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

5, other than the footpads, a nice intro

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

The big issue is how many footpads to recruit? Footpads are less useful when fighting elvish pillagers in the next scenario, and if you recruit too many footpads, you won't have enough cash to do well in the next scenario

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Re: Two Brothers: 1. Rooting out a Mage

Post by Kernigh » February 13th, 2007, 11:46 pm

I played "Rooting out a Mage" in January 2007.

(1) Easy "Horseman", Wesnoth 1.2.0
(2) Scenario difficulty: 3 (easy)
(3) I took the objectives to mean, "Attack the enemy", and that was well.
(4) I guess that black mages and undeads wandering Wesnoth is typical.
(5) Following Bjarn's suggestions, I decided to advance all my units without doing recruiting. Three skeletons attacked Arne, who retreated, and I lost three units (2 Horsemen, 1 Spearman)! But a quick retreat allowed me to recruit four units (2 Bowmen, 2 Spearmen) and easily kill the Black Mage.

friar tuck
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Re: Two Brothers: 1. Rooting out a Mage

Post by friar tuck » February 20th, 2007, 11:24 pm

ivanovic wrote:(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Hard on 1.2, Easy on 1.0.2(?)
ivanovic wrote:(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2 Easy after I figured out the right strategy.
ivanovic wrote:(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear. Kill the villian.
ivanovic wrote:(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
I liked it. The story is interesting and the twist with Bjarn being captured is a good starting point for the campaign.
ivanovic wrote:(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
I'm amazed everybody else is ploughing through the skeletons. After I got a severe beating in my very first scenario (after the tutorial) on easy, I got the impression this is impossible and can't be the way it's supposed to be...
After a deep look at the map, I tried to sneak through the forest along the western river, which worked pretty well.
After installing 1.2 I tried again on hard and it still worked like a charm. All the non-mounted units take position in the forest very near the castle waiting for the second wake while the horsemen just drag the skeletons after them without getting in touch. Then a quick rush over the river, arriving at noon, kill the mage, scenario over. I think one unit died while crossing the river, but I saved all the other loyal units, recruited nobody and received a gold bonus for finishing early.
After having played the other official campaigns, I'm again shocked how short-sighted the AI is. Why is he calmly watching most of my people meeting for a happening in a forest two turns away from his hold while his skeletons are happily, but pointlessly, chasing my horsemen?
Is this configurable? One would expect a dark sorcerer to be some kind of genius who would forsee such an open ambush.
ivanovic wrote:(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
10 Unfortunately in a lot of scenarios I wasn't yet able to find a substantially better strategy "on the macroscopic level" by carefully studying the map. I'm expecting more of that as soon as I attempt more campaings on hard :wink:
ivanovic wrote:(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I'm satisfied.

borsook
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Post by borsook » March 14th, 2007, 8:50 pm

(7) this is about the whole campaign not just this mission - I'd really welcome a third difficulty setting, between the current two, maybe I'm alone with this, but I find easy so easy it's not worth playing, and on hard I can't get through the second mission - which is ok, that's what hard should be, but maybe some sort of "normal" would help new players who still want a bit of challenge?

freddf
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Re: Two Brothers: 1. Rooting out a Mage

Post by freddf » March 20th, 2007, 11:14 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Hard, v1.2.1
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
9-10 (have not used footpads)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Probably can benefit from more game mechanics explanation (see point 7)
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Get rid of skeletons w/o footpads. Finally managed to win by luring them down the small forest North of the river and quickly rode across the "plain" above with horsemen to kill the dark adept.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
Not sure. For an introductory/tutorial scenario it seems to hard. On the other hand, the possibility to win without killing everybody (everyskeleton actually :lol: ) is interesting.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I would second Tropico's suggestions about more explicit hints from the characters about skeletons vulnerabilities to blunt weapons, day/night cycle, etc. One can even ad an exclamation confirming the success from the first footpad to kill a skeleton and an approval from one on the lieutenants about this tactic, or something.
:idea: It would be great, if there can be different text depending on difficulty levels. On easy the player is "taken by hand" with these hints, while on "hard" the player is pretty much left on his own, or have more subtle hints. For example the first horseman to attack can show his disappointment/distress by saying "My lance can pierce flesh and armor, but what to do(what can I do) when there is none?!". The Dark Sorcerer can also participate by telling "Go, my servants, as the shadows (of the night) grow longer, so does our strength!" and "Retreat, my pawns, the sunlight weaken your fleshless frames/forms". Then the scenario could be interesting for both novice and confirmed players, but I don't know if Wesnoth engine allows to have different text for each difficulty level.

RokStar
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Re: Two Brothers: 1. Rooting out a Mage

Post by RokStar » June 3rd, 2007, 8:17 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
- Hard on v. 1.3.2

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
very

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
very

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
- let me see... it was hard to build a working strategy in order to have minimun loss, and hope for an advancement of some units. Anyway 3 units (or more) dies on this scenario.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
- 7

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
-

cph
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Post by cph » June 29th, 2007, 8:33 pm

1) Hard, 1.3.4
2) 2
3) Fairly clear, except for wondering where the mage got to.
4) Okay
5) Undead resistance to weapons made it non-trivial, but just a couple of footpads mixed in with the loyalist units, and using the river to divide the enemy in half, was enough to make it a straightforward win.
6) 5
7) -

Pseudointellectual
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Post by Pseudointellectual » August 23rd, 2007, 12:41 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

(1) This is the first game I ever played apart from the Tutorial. I played it on Easy, and I'm using 1.2.6.
(2) I suffered some losses, and the Skeletons where annoying. I made a mostly spearmen army so there were a lot of shots traded. I took the mage down pretty easy. So... 4.
(3) They were pretty clear. I just had to beat up the black magician.
(4) The story was straightforward. I think there was too much "where is my brother?" dialogue. Once probably would have been enough.
(5) Beating up those skeletons. Of course, I'm a complete newbie so my lack of knowledge of the game didn't help any, I'm sure.
(6) It didn't change my life, but was a good first scenario. Maybe 5?
(7) I don't know enough about the game to say for certain, so I'd say it's fine.

I'll probably replay it on hard sometime, so I can rereview it then.

Dwachs
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Re: Two Brothers: 1. Rooting out a Mage

Post by Dwachs » December 12th, 2007, 9:46 am

(1) Difficulty: easy , game versions: 1.2.8
(2) How difficult: 8 - it was the first scenario I played. The enemies (undeads) seem to be too strong (at the first try) for the units I had at hand.
(3) How clear: it was ok
(4) How clear and interesting: everything ok
(5) Beating the undeads with my weaker troops
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? 8
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun? - weaker enemies - as it was the first serious scenario I played (after the tutorial)

edit: or let the player recrute units with 'healing' abiltiy, since the tutorial makes essential use of it.

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Post by Darth Jordius » December 21st, 2007, 2:51 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Easy and hard, 1.2.1 and every stable version since.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
1
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Very clear, but not at all interesting. Perhaps if it was a bit longer.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the
scenario?
None

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
3

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to
make it more fun?
I would make it more difficult.

As a side note, I played the campaign through on hard without losing a single unit. In the first campaign, just recruit a couple speamen and footpads, and send everyone but your leader straight north. Send your leader west, and all the Undead will follow him. Strike down on the Dark Sorcerer with a couple horsemen and spearmen, and that scenario is done.
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Anym
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Re: Two Brothers: 1. Rooting out a Mage

Post by Anym » April 3rd, 2008, 12:24 am

(1) Horseman (Beginner), 1.4, English [US]
(2) 3 (assuming lower means easier): it was the first scenario I played after the tutorial and I managed a win on the first try without losing a single unit or ever having to reload
(3) Very clear
(4) Clear, but not at all interesting. I don't think the kidnapping should be mentioned in the campaign description as it's technically a plot twist that's given away, albeit a weak one.
(5) Having to retreat because of poisoning, mostly because coming from the tutorial it was kind of unexpected, but that was only a "challenge" insofar that it took me a turn or two longer to kill Mordak. Whether I would be able to successfully slay him was never in question.
(6) 3 (assuming lower means less fun): I played this because it was among the suggested campaigns at the end of the tutorial and because of the three mentioned there it was the shortest and the top-most in the campaign selection menu. Having played it, I can't help but feel very underwhelmed. I hope this isn't the best Wesnoth has to offer (considering its inclusion in the main distribution and its endorsement in the tutorial).
(7) Rewrite the entire dialogue completely from scratch. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but at the moment I find it almost painful to read. (Note that that doesn't mean that I could do it any better, which I probably couldn't, otherwise I'd volunteer.) While you're doing that, don't give away the plot twist that Bjarne is going to be kidnapped. Ideally, Arne shouldn't wonder about Bjarne all the time, only when he has slain Mordak and there's no trace of him should he start to get worried. And, of course, don't mention the kidnapping in the scenario descriptions. The plot already isn't the most original and it doesn't need to be weakened further by giving that away. The way the scenario is now, I'm afraid I'd even recommend removing it from the list of suggestions at the end of the tutorial for the time being. Also, I think the capitalisation of the campaign's title should be changed to "A Tale of Two Brothers" (lowercase "of") as that seems to be the convention all other campaign titles abide to. And I think there should be a check that Arne's "That wasn't so hard!" message can only get displayed after "I hear these creatures are near immune to our weapons, let us see!" Currently, if Arne kills on his first attack, those messages can show up out of order which makes them look very out of place.
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Re: Two Brothers: 1. Rooting out a Mage

Post by Turuk » December 15th, 2008, 7:13 am

Some more recent feedback.

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Challenging 1.4.6

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
3. The horseman are great to use against the ghosts, and the footpads/archers can be used to wear down the skeletons.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Crystal.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Eh, it's alright. Very basic, and as pointed out by a few others before me, the plot is made very obvious to the player, on the off chance they might miss it. I understand the whole where is my brother bit when you make your first attack, but it should be less of a focused thought and more of an aside. "Bjarne has been delayed in the forest, no matter, he will miss out on the fighting! Charge!"

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
None

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
5. Not really hard or unique, but a nice little map and certainly a good start for the campaign.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Better dialogue to intrigue the player, and possibly make the forest to the south more viable for the player/enemy to use. Much of the fighting occurs on the plain, with the bits of forest as cover for the footpads.
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