Scenario 1: Rooting out a Mage

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Turgon
Posts: 59
Joined: September 30th, 2011, 6:13 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Scenario 1: Rooting out a Mage

Post by Turgon » March 28th, 2012, 6:19 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Easy (just to rush swiftly through the changed campaings in the new version ;-) ), 1.10.0

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
crystal clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Really nice! The new dialogue adds a very interesting dimension to the story and made me really curious.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
None, since the skeletons were removed from the scenario and I didn't care for loyals, because I rushed the campaign.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7... good Wesnoth standard incl. interesting storyline

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
It would be very nice if you meet the mayor of the town who appears only as a longbowman in the last scenario. Maybe also something referring to the terror against the village, maybe some peasants fighting against bats or some corpses terrorizing some villagers.
Looking for feedback for my dramatic campaign "A story of three villages", a late-age men vs. undead story going to include vampires and werewolves: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=36193

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Ninjuri
Posts: 167
Joined: April 28th, 2012, 2:59 am
Location: California

Re: Scenario 1: Rooting out a Mage

Post by Ninjuri » May 4th, 2012, 1:03 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
easy 1.10.2
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
3
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
10/10
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
You can tell that there is some tension between the brothers
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
none
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
no complaints here
Fate is against me.

jonaskoelker
Posts: 8
Joined: August 29th, 2006, 7:46 pm
Location: Denmark
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Re: Scenario 1: Rooting out a Mage

Post by jonaskoelker » June 19th, 2012, 2:55 pm

(1) level: easy; version: 1.10 (debian package version number 1:1.10.2-1)
(2) difficulty: quite easy, 2
(3) clear objectives: completely unmistakable. 11/10 ;)
(4) dialog/storyline: very clear; I like the suspense set up by hinting at tension between the brothers.
(5) major challenges: I wouldn't say major, but the... least trivial challenge was dealing with poision (~ having all my units survive).
(6) fun: I was engaged the whole time, so it succeded in what I wanted it to do. While there's no flaws, I think something even better is possible, so 8/10.
(7) changes: I was unclear about when the Baran was supposed to show up (i.e. which turn number). I would've liked that to be explicit. An off-the-top-of-my-head idea would be to have as a loss condition "Arvith dies before Baran shows up (in turn X)" or something like that.
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Gerion
Posts: 49
Joined: March 28th, 2010, 11:01 am

Re: Scenario 1: Rooting out a Mage

Post by Gerion » October 14th, 2012, 4:13 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Normal, 1.10.2

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
3. It is not that hard if you know the basics of Wesnoth

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear. Kill the baddie.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Very clear and interesting. All pieces are set in position: The two brothers get characterized, one of the brothers gets kidnapped, so the other one starts a rescue mission. Perfect for a first scenario.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
None, really... keeping the units alive because loyal units are invaluable, but you would do that anyway, right?

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8. Good, solid scenario with no surprises (of the good or bad kind)

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
None, really

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Seldam
Posts: 24
Joined: December 21st, 2012, 4:27 pm
Location: Austria

Re: Scenario 1: Rooting out a Mage

Post by Seldam » December 25th, 2012, 6:24 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
easy, 1.10.5;

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialogue and storyline of the scenario?
3

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Do the scenario as fast as possible and get high amount of bonus gold.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
3

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
A bit more difficult (it is a bit too easy even for easy) or another objective if possible.
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D-Wade
Posts: 68
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Re: Scenario 1: Rooting out a Mage

Post by D-Wade » February 11th, 2013, 8:12 am

(1) Hard 1.10.5
(2) 3 - after beating it the first time, but not being able to get the 2nd scenario done, I restarted it an finished it in 10 minutes without big losses
(3) very clear
(4) it's only a 4 scenario campaign, I guess there can't be a huge story - keeping this in mind I'd say 5/10
(5) keeping your loyal soldiers
(6) 5
(7) really don't know, the scenario is easy but if you made it too challenging you would have problems going onwards

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e7th04sh
Posts: 38
Joined: December 11th, 2008, 1:07 pm

Re: Scenario 1: Rooting out a Mage

Post by e7th04sh » January 8th, 2014, 12:02 am

ver. 1.10.7; Challenging

As i am not a good player, I had to play the scenario twice. At first I split infantry and cavalry. My forces advanced steadily and surely in the forest, while enemy sent out four adepts into the open field. I decided a swift charge is justified, but it got less lucky than expected and soon I was desperately covering severely wounded Arvith from counter-attacking undead. I took my only chance at finishing the Lich off with my infantry before Arvith falls prey, but failed.

On my second attempt I formed a defensive line along river with spearmen and through the harsh terrain in the west with the other units. I used horsemen to hunt down susceptible units, particularly adepts, while always ending the turn in a defensive formation. In this manner I swallowed up whole undead forces with no losses.

Difficulty: 4
Scenario could easily be won without losses, but required a little bit of strategic thinking.

Objectives:
Objectives were clear.

Dialog and storyline:
Storyline messages were good enough for a mainline campaign, but not more. While restrained to a few messages, you can't do a lot, so I would say I am content that dialog didn't feel artificial, naive or awkward.

Challenges:
Skeletons definitely pose a problem, they are an unpredictable factor in the difficulty.

Overall:
6.5 - Scenario is decent in all respects, with just a few minor shortcomings. The storyline helps get in character and put some emotions into the game. Map has a good feel to it, introduces several distinct geographical features of just the right sizes. It's nice to look at and allows some tactics & strategy.

Suggestions:

There are no major issues, but of the minor ones, I'd focus on the trouble with skeletons. Ineffectivity of all human units against them is not a problem itself, but in this particular match-up they are actually a significant threat and require attention of several units to contain them. Is it possible, and would it help, if units prices were adjusted for undead - ie. skeletons became more expensive -, so that total worth of his army is less disconnected from general challenge it presents? Perhaps a.i. recruitment process could be slightly altered to prevent excessive use of adepts? If funds were delayed, maybe it would take lack of impact weapons on human side and presence of horsemen and a knight into consideration? Of course they would then have to get more gold total, as the AI does not amass army to take advantage of scale. (Does it?)

Another small issue that comes to my mind is probably beyond the scope of this topic, but I'll mention - the end of scenario is somewhat unrealistic. While I would expect field battle to be the major challenge when fighting the Lich, I would suppose that slaying it in it's castle should be a bit better of a dessert than a piece of cake. Was the Lich (or any enemy leader in any scenario) reasonable, then as soon as they realized they're in trouble, they'd either prepare for defense or join his forces in the battle field in an all-in kind of bet. Or perhaps try to run away. Actually, this leads me back to topic...

As I put it before, scenario is decent in all respects, and if not for minor, not much of a problem really, shortcomings, it'd have my sincere 7. However to go beyond that, I would suggest adding, as we call it in Poland, "tastes". As was already mentioned earlier, in-game representations of storyline, atmosphere etc. make all the difference. A polish proverb goes: devil's in the details. Here's what I have in mind - a couple of allied independent villagers somewhere on the map, old tombstones (would require graphics), this kind of things. Then, to go even beyond just that, make them slightly significant in-game. Make the villagers desperately ask for help and pledge loyalty or offer their money to Arvith if he manages to protect them. Make the Lich send adepts to the graveyard to raise a couple of walking corpses free of charge.

As for the Lich's lack of common sense... one easy way to work around it would be a simple message - make him express how surprised is he with the outcome of the battle at some point. That would explain why he's unprepared in any way.

If more work could be put into it, I could suggest something more elaborate. Like this. At some point, the Lich realizes how much trouble he's in. First, if possible, he's forced to spend any reserve he had, and then makes a choice:

a) to run away (human forces overwhelm his'); After storyline interlude, Lich uses his last resort magic to raise some walking corpses, call some bats and maybe a ghost or two here and there on the map, to hinder the pursuit. Objective of killing enemy leader becomes optional and main objective is now considered complete. Scenario ends if turns run out or enemy leader reaches certain escape tile, perhaps in the south. He may be slayed for a minor bonus, perhaps an artifact or, better yet, helpful information.

b) to defend (human forces are strong); Same as before, but Lich decides he has all the eternity, while Arvith already starts worrying about his brother. Lich uses his energy, saved for a rainy day, to alter area around his keep a bit, so that it is more suitable for defence, and raises a couple of defensive units for free. If that's an option, his AI adapts to his new goal (fe. he calls back some of his forces, to gather near him, while uses the rest to delay humans). In this and former cases, when turns run out, Lich tries to save himself by hinting Arvith about his brother's fate. Arvith decides that, with Lich clearly weakened, villagers and just a few of his units can continue the pursuit/siege, while the rest will investigate the kidnapping.

c) to settle it in battle (human forces not too strong); Lich decides that the odds aren't too bad for him, but battle requires his direct involvement. He teleports closer to the battle field and immedietely raises a unit or two. To make sure he does not decide to rush back, his keep is downgraded to castle tile perhaps, or maybe it can be achieved with lua ai or something.

Okay, that's pretty extensive but, well, maybe, just maybe, helpful also.

Now, one small suggestion remains. As this campaign and scenario is presented as novice level, intended to teach some, I think it wouldn't hurt to introduce some tactical or strategical hints through dialog. For example Arvith's men could exchange two-three messages commenting the prospects and giving pointers to villagers. For example a poacher could express fear of entering forest, and a spearmen could reassure him that if his fellow form a good defensive line, as soon as enemy engages them, powerful units will make short work of him before he can do any major harm, and wounded could return to the village for treatment. Arvith could then say that throughout the battle all, villagers and soldiers alike, are responsible for each other, have to trust each other and the battle won't be too difficult, but would any villager act foolish, he may bring dire consequences on himself or others. As in all my flaws I am specifically a poor Wesnoth player, my example might not be the one most suitable, but I thin kit explains what I mean.

Okay, I think that's it. Hope I was being helpful and sorry for any bad feelings caused, no harm intended really.

One last thing - good job, scenario well deserves it's inclusion on mainline.

Linthar
Posts: 77
Joined: September 14th, 2006, 12:16 am

Re: Scenario 1: Rooting out a Mage

Post by Linthar » July 21st, 2014, 1:38 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Challenging 1.10.7

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Perfectly Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Its much improved from when I last played this quite a few versions back. Its a fairly cliched setup, but rather well characterized.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The first challenge is that you start with an extremely piercing damage heavy army, against an enemy that recruits a bunch of ghosts and skeletons, which is not a great matchup, and while footpads help, you start with too little gold to recruit a large number of those. Secondly you start with a large number of loyal units which is a good thing other then the fact that they comprise a large portion of your army, which makes keeping all of those desirable units alive very difficult, and the best I was able to do was complete the level losing just one loyal unit. These factors could have made the scenario rather rough except for two things. First you start with so many units that I ended up with slightly more units then my opponent after recruitment was done. Secondly my opponent heavily favored recruiting dark adepts, aka the one unit he could recruit that I could actually easily kill, so I was able to gain a strong numerical advantage rather quickly, and even ghosts go down quickly when you have 3 or 4 units beating down on each one.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
5. Its a rather mundane fight and other then the initially unfavorable looking matchup it doesn't have much to make it stand out.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Nothing particularly comes to mind.

JMichael
Posts: 22
Joined: February 19th, 2013, 4:25 am

Re: Scenario 1: Rooting out a Mage

Post by JMichael » June 11th, 2015, 5:26 am

Wesnoth 1.12.2
The villagers of Maghre have taken up weapons but they are not trained
fighters; but we need your men, and you to lead them.
I wouldn't say "but" twice. Maybe
they are not trained fighters -- we need your men, and you to lead them.

nikita1996
Posts: 49
Joined: July 18th, 2015, 8:07 am

Re: Scenario 1: Rooting out a Mage

Post by nikita1996 » August 17th, 2015, 1:55 pm

1) difficulty:Knight (challenging) v1.12.4
2) 3. It's very easy to kill the undead leader, but it needs some strategies. It's impossible to kill all the undead units because we don't have enough money. So it's a problem that how to reach the enemy leader. In this game, knights/horses are very important. While fighting with the main enemy troops with your spearmen and bowmen, you should try to reach the king with your knight. You must kill the leader as soon as possible. The enemy troops are much stronger than yours. Also, you can't recurit mages! If you don't kill the enemy leader quickly, you'll troops will be wiped out at last.
3) Very clear. I can know what to do without reading anything.
4) I think it's just so-so. It's just a usual battle. There's nothing special. Everyting is in my expectation. Much dimmer and less colorful than UtBS.
5) The major challenge is how to reach the enemy leader. Killing all other enemy units before killing the leader is impossible. So using horses to kill the leader may be the only way.
6) 4. There's no difference with a usual 1v1 multiplayer battle. Also, the AI is just a noob.
7) Maybe we can add fog or shround. We can also make some ambush enemies. It's not hard or interesting enough. It's can't be called a "challenging" level game. At maximum, we can call it "medium".
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Remellion
Posts: 13
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Re: Scenario 1: Rooting out a Mage

Post by Remellion » December 25th, 2015, 4:10 pm

1. Played on Knight (Challenging), 1.12.5. (Also numerous times before on 1.5, 1.6 and 1.8.)

2. Difficulty? The scenario was easy, never in real danger of losing control, although protecting all the loyals is not trivial. Maybe a 4.

3. Objectives are clear and simple. "Slay" rather than "defeat" is a good touch.

4. Good dialogue. There's the right tone in the English. (I can't judge the French.)

5. Challenges. Mainly keeping all the loyals alive. The initial advantages are stacked for the player: Starting with a huge loyal army and having gold on top of no upkeep; the distance meaning the first contact with enemy is at dawn (turn 4); footpads being available for impact damage, good defense on flat, and expendability.

My approach to this scenario: Be aware that footpads are a huge gift to the pierce-heavy loyalists. First contact is at dawn; we plan to strike hard and eliminate as many units as possible starting from there. Bats are one-shotted by charging horseman; Arvith's charge one-hits ghosts at day. I could have, with terrible luck, lost a spearman on turn 6. After the first day, with some small luck, the situation is completely under control and it's just exp farming.

6. Fun factor is about a 5 for me. Standard Wesnoth one-on-one fight, gameplay-wise decent for an introduction to Wesnoth, although potentially frustrating for a newbie who doesn't realise footpads are very strong here. Then again Challenging is not for newbies.

7. Suggestions? Not much. It serves its purpose in the campaign well enough.
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SigurdFireDragon
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Re: Scenario 1: Rooting out a Mage

Post by SigurdFireDragon » January 12th, 2016, 5:03 am

1. Played on Knight (Challenging), 1.12.5. (Also once before on 1.8 or 1.10 on easy)

2. Difficulty? Easy - 3

3. Objectives are clear.

4. Dialog - 8. It did a good job of setting the story of the two brothers on its way.

5. Challenges. Keeping the loyals completely safe from dying. I think I lucked out in a spot or two.
Manipulating the enemy to where you want them to go. Using footpads as meat shields makes this easy, though there isn't much room for error, otherwise you could lose a loyal. Time was a little tight at the end.

6. Fun - 7. This time around it was more enjoyable, as I had figured out what to do. When I played it on easy years ago, I didn't realize footpads were strong and did get frustrated as the above post mentions.

7. No suggestions.
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Caladbolg
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Re: Scenario 1: Rooting out a Mage

Post by Caladbolg » September 23rd, 2016, 3:58 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
1.12.5, Challenging.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4. Honestly, it's a bit trickier than I thought it'd be. I expected Challenging difficulty on Beginner-level campaign to be like Easy difficulty on Intermediate-level campaigns. It's not a bad thing, mind you. Just slightly unexpected.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
I'm actually quite impressed with the writing. It nicely sets up the theme and hints at the event that caused the brothers to drift apart. The storyline art is also really good. The only minor complaint would be the repetition of "but" in the piece of text JMichael mentioned above.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The fact that the unit types available are skewed in the undead's favor. All of their units deal moderate damage to player's units but player's units suck at dealing with undead. If you don't want your units poisoned, you can't attack ghouls with melee. If you don't want them killed, you can't attack adepts with ranged. Pierce works well only against adepts and ghouls. Taking all that into account, spearmen work only against adepts, bowmen only against ghouls, horsemen only against adepts. Only footpads are good against skeletons while still being useful against other undead, but their base damage is very low. As a result, it's easy to lose your loyal units which is always hard to watch.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
4. Nothing special.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Nothing comes to mind.

Strategy: Recruit a few extra footpads. Most units go west, with a few going north so enemy units would scatter (considering how resistant they are to your attack types, having them clustered together would make things a lot harder). Horsemen focus on quickly killing adepts, with spearmen helping out. Footpads used as lures, blockades or to deal with skeletons. On the 6th turn I gambled by using a horseman to kill a corpse but I failed and got him turned into a zombie. 10th turn, a loyal spearman kills the enemy leader.

Stats: 25 start gold, 10/18 turns, 99 end gold, 14/16 villages, 9 units, 16 income, 3 recruits (all footpads), 0 recalls and advancements, 4 losses (loyal horseman, 2 loyal spearmen, a non-loyal footpad), 17 kills, +6% dmg dealt, +15% dmg taken

The enemy didn't recruit bats even though they're available so that made things a bit easier.
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Konrad2
Posts: 844
Joined: November 24th, 2010, 6:30 pm

Re: Scenario 1: Rooting out a Mage

Post by Konrad2 » May 2nd, 2018, 8:26 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
1.14.0, Hard

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2-3 really easy.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Positive check at both.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Minor challenge: Arranging my units so I can deal with the undead without losses.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
4

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Nothing comes to mind.

Stats: 25 start gold, 9/18 turns, 28 end gold, 7/14 villages, 15 units, 9 income, 2 recruits (all footpads), 0 recalls and advancements and losses, 14 kills, +11% dmg dealt, +0% dmg taken
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I am a Ghost: I drain the life energy from other people to survive and am hated/feared by regular people. Non-regular people don't like me either though.

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