AI concerns

Post by **turin** » October 3rd, 2004, 2:39 pm

If you have a unit with 1 xp to advance and 1 health, and it has a ranged attack, and a nearby lvl 1 enemy does not... don't you shoot at that enemy and advance as opposed to attacking a different archer-type unit with melee, and risking death?

the AI apparently doesn't... maybe something should be added that says "if this guarantees you advance, do it"?

Mindless · Post by **Mindless** » October 3rd, 2004, 3:34 pm

For me it doesn't have any sense. I mean why the AI would attack unit which can hit back if nearby is unit which can be hit without any harm to the attacker.
I always try to attack units which can do less damage to attacker. So fighters against mages. Mages against fighters.

Integral · Post by **Integral** » October 3rd, 2004, 4:59 pm

I've noticed this too. The inverse problem also occurs: the AI will attack units that are guaranteed to survive and level as a result of the battle. (yes, this can sometimes be part of a diaboloical strategy....but believe me, I've seen the AI do this lots of times when it was just stupid)

Daniel

Post by **turin** » October 3rd, 2004, 5:03 pm

Integral wrote:I've noticed this too. The inverse problem also occurs: the AI will attack units that are guaranteed to survive and level as a result of the battle. (yes, this can sometimes be part of a diaboloical strategy....but believe me, I've seen the AI do this lots of times when it was just stupid)

Daniel

really? most of the time the AI avoids soon-to-advance units pretty well, unless it can kill them...

although it often levels them with the hope of killing them after they level, which is not too effective...

Post by **Dave** » October 3rd, 2004, 7:35 pm

Examples (save files) of situations where the AI behaves poorly would be appreciated -- then I can easily tell why it's playing poorly, make changes to the code, and re-test.

With just a description of the situation, all I can do is try to set up a similiar situation and see if I can reproduce it. I tried to reproduce turin's example a few times, but each time the AI did what I would consider the intelligent thing.

David

Post by **Boucman** » October 3rd, 2004, 7:56 pm

Dave is there an autosave in MP too ? if there is, that would avoid people havng to save manually "before" the bug

Post by **Dave** » October 3rd, 2004, 8:53 pm

Boucman wrote:Dave is there an autosave in MP too ? if there is, that would avoid people havng to save manually "before" the bug

Yes there is.

David

Invisible Philosopher · October 4th, 2004, 10:27 am

A replay of Black Flag, where the AI does some stupid things. (I also saveload at the end to save GrÃƒÂ¼ÃƒÂ¼.) Some of them could be fixed by making Slowhand a passive_leader. But at one point a Heavy Infantry attacks Kapou'e, with no chance to kill, sure to level up Kapou'e, and possibility to get the Heavy Infantry killed (which incidentally happened). I have some mid-game saves if needed, but I'd have to find out which one was just before this situation. A turn number would be helpful.

About the AI being about to level up, I don't believe it takes into account whether its units could level up. (I could be wrong.)

Post by **Dave** » October 4th, 2004, 10:45 am

Invisible Philosopher wrote:A replay of Black Flag, where the AI does some stupid things.

Please provide saved games immediately before the AI does something stupid with a description of what the AI does stupid, and why.

Invisible Philosopher wrote: About the AI being about to level up, I don't believe it takes into account whether its units could level up. (I could be wrong.)

It does take this into account.

David

Integral · Post by **Integral** » October 4th, 2004, 10:11 pm

If you hit "end turn" on this save file, one of the AI's naga will valiantly charge at my sergeant (who is 1XP from leveling), despite the fact that it cannot possibly kill him. The computer can't be planning to attack him with more powerful units: nothing but naga can reach him, and the one naga that attacks him is the last unit the computer moves.

Daniel

Post by **Dave** » October 4th, 2004, 10:46 pm

Integral: thanks for the example. Here's the deal with it:

The AI attacks you along its line, concentrating on your spearmen and knight. There are various outcomes, but in many of them, the west-most naga is left unable to attack anyone but your almost-advanced unit from the swamp.

The naga is loathe to leave the swamp (smart, I'm sure you'll agree), and it doesn't want to flee, since the battle is reasonably closely contested.

So, what it decides to do is stay still. However, there is a provision in the AI algorithm, that if the AI moves a unit, and ends up next to an enemy, it will always attack. The reason for this is that some time ago, the AI used to be too passive in its main attack phase, so I added this in to make sure the AI wouldn't end up sitting around doing nothing.

However I think the AI's problems with being too passive in its main attack phase have been fixed. So, I'm changing this condition to only attack if the attack is risk-free (the enemy has no response). We'll see if it works out well.

David

joshbosh321 · Post by **joshbosh321** » October 4th, 2004, 11:06 pm

Another problem, related to what Dave just said. If you have, say, a merman next to a lich leader, and the lich has 1 hp, it won't attack the merman even though it has no risk in doing so.

I never actually tried this with a merman, but I have with all sorts of other units. I think that the leader should always attack a unit if it is in no danger of being damaged, even if the leader is injured or passive. This doesn't mean that a Orcish Ruler leader at full health would ignore Konrad at 1 health and instead attack a dwarvish fighter at full health with it's ranged attack, just that the orc would do that if it had 1 health.

Invisible Philosopher · October 6th, 2004, 9:03 pm

Dave wrote:
Invisible Philosopher wrote:A replay of Black Flag, where the AI does some stupid things.
Please provide saved games immediately before the AI does something stupid with a description of what the AI does stupid, and why.

End turn, and the damaged Heavy Infantry attacks Kapou'e (at least that happened twice for me). The Heavy Infantry can't kill Kapou'e, is sure to level him up, and might die.