Scenario 15: The Lost General

Feedback for the mainline campaign Heir to the Throne.

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Re: Scenario 15: The Lost General

Post by kiss » October 17th, 2014, 5:11 pm

Heir to the Throne - The Lost General - Fighter (Beginner) 1.11.16.
Never played before.

Dwarves kingdom is well introduced in the previous scenario. I've enjoyed the playable interlude, it is a good idea.
The Sceptre is named more often ... anyone should be aware of our quest now!
Dialogs and comments are welcome, they help a lot to dive in the story.

Events a Dwarf in a village.

The map A maze.

Nothing more than exploring.
Use the new Dwarf units and try to advance few veterans.

First try: not well prepared, delfador is dead. I've forgotten cave needs a special strategy because of the lack of space and slowness. Also I've released the undead too early. Not a good idea!
New Strategy
Help Geldar first, and let the undead as they are.
Comments No reload, no restart
There is a lot of events!
I've don't really seen what the earthquake modify: west undead entrance?
I've not been able to enter the water void nor visit the south part of the lake. I've sent a Merman there, but lost it stupidly ...
Those allied Dwarves were near to steal Lionel's death!

An interesting scenario, not that difficult at it seems at first try. However not easy to have a good grasp of what's going on before reaching the great hall. I'm afraid it should been difficult to get xp if the dwarves are helped too much. As soon as they are near a fight, there is no way to control them and any tactics may fall down!

Those dwarves are surprisingly strong!

Starting gold+(carried over): 330+(671)/?/?/?.
Finish turn: 36/64, bonus gold: 558.
Recruit 9: 7 Dwarvish Fighter, 2 Dwarvish Thunderer,Elvish Archer,Elvish Fighter,Elvish Scout,Elvish Shaman,Horseman,Mage,Mermaid Initiate,Merman Fighter,Merman Hunter,Thief.
Recall 8:Elvish Archer,Elvish Captain, 2 Elvish Druid, 1 Elvish Enchantress,Elvish Fighter,Elvish Hero,Elvish Marksman,Elvish Shaman,Elvish Sorceress, 1 Footpad,Fugitive,Horseman,Knight,Mage,Mermaid Initiate,Mermaid Priestess,Merman Fighter, 1 Merman Hunter,Merman Warrior, 1 Outlaw,Red Mage, 1 Rogue,Thief,Thug, 1 White Mage.

XP tracking.
Assassin lvl 3: 2/120
Dwarvish Fighter lvl 1: 35/41, 7/41, 3/33, 0/33
Dwarvish Steelclad lvl 2: 6/74, 43/74
Dwarvish Thunderer lvl 1: 17/32, 0/32
Delfador Elder Mage lvl 5: 36/240
Elvish Druid lvl 2: 58/80, 21/64
Elvish Enchantress lvl 3: 43/180
Kalenz Elvish Lord lvl 2: 95/120
Fugitive lvl 3: 59/120
Konrad Lord lvl 3: 132/150
Moremirmu Mage of Light lvl 3: 1/150
Outlaw lvl 2: 0/62

R.I.P. 2: 1 Dwarvish Fighter, 1 Merman Hunter
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Re: Scenario 15: The Lost General

Post by Ranger » April 19th, 2015, 7:07 pm

I couldnt finish the scenario because after I completed the main objective: "Kill all enemy leaders." nothing happens. Some sort of bug? :|

P.S. That's not a compressed replay. Thats a normal replay file inside an archive.
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Calling a spear a spoon and then saying "our spoons are different, WINR," is kind of unsatisfying, isn't it?

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Re: Scenario 15: The Lost General

Post by SigurdFireDragon » March 18th, 2016, 5:04 am

Here's for Scenario 14 Plunging_into_the_Darkness first:
Played on 1.12.5 Hero (Normal) 226 gold

When I saw there was hidden gold, I went back & played a second time. I could have done a better job fighting the spider.
1.12.5 Normal
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Scenario 15 The Lost General
Played on 1.12.5 Hero (Normal) 676 gold

I think there should be some mention of the dwarvish guardsmen if you save the Dwarf leader. Something like additional objective: special bonus; probably when you trigger some dwarf dialog and see that they are there.

I was suspicious of the whirlpool and sent an Elvish Shyde to investigate. Nothing. After I finished the scenario on turn 31, read the wml and saw about the loyal, so reloaded on turn 31 to recruit a merfolk to go to the whirlpool to get him. Then near the end realized I was on track for way too much carryover gold, so I decided to do some unit recruiting trait farming to make quick units for my recall list.
1.12.5 Normal
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Re: Scenario 15: The Lost General

Post by Caladbolg » March 25th, 2016, 8:23 pm

I'll start off by saying that scenario 14 (Plunging into the darkness) was the best one as far as dialog is concerned. Extra gold is also welcome. Maybe making a secret passage more visible? Most people will probably go to the skeleton but will move on because nothing happened. You could add a small comment about the walls looking strange when a unit reaches the skeleton.

Anyways, The Lost General:
(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
1.12.5, medium.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4.5. It can be either an easy walk (4) or a long, boring hassle (5) depending on how your ally fares.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear as a bell.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Clear, but I have some objections:
1) The whole whirpool thing... well, actually, I'll get to that later... but it is weird.
2) Lionel... If I recall correctly, Delfador knew him (from Delfador's Memoirs). Why isn't he trying to talk to him? Why are they not informing him that Konrad is the heir to the throne? He was a loyal general, surely he wouldn't try to kill an heir? Why wouldn't he help them get the scepter, thus finally fulfilling the quest he was sent on?
3) "Argh! I am vanquished!" -every cartoon villain ever Lionel, the finest general of Wesnoth
4) "I am destroyed, but my mission must be completed." Exactly! So, again, if he wants to complete his quest, why not help Konrad from the start? Delfador knew him, so he would know that they could get him to help by telling him that the heir is searching for the scepter.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Trying to properly distribute my forces so I could effectively deal with both enemies at the same time.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
3. This is largely due to personal preference and I see from other reviews that people seem to either love it or hate it. In my opinion, scenarios with big maps can either be epic and full of different and interesting scenery or boring and dragged out. Open maps such as Northern Winter tend to be the former while underground ones tend to be the latter, and this was unfortunately the case here. The map is large and all your units move slowly (dwarves due to low movement points, others due to high movement costs) which results in a lot of slow, boring movement.

Because the orcs are far away, the problems happening on that front can be especially tedious as they might require you to respond by getting more units which will again need a lot of time to get to the battlefront. In other words, whenever the situation changes it takes a century for it to be resolved if you haven't sent out enough units initially (but if you use a lot of units from the start, then you can end relatively quickly so it's not that big of an issue.) The undead were also tedious because of that bottleneck. I mean, it's not even strategically challenging because a simple unit rotation around the healer will keep all enemies from overwhelming you. Instead of a challenge, those undead amount to little more than an XP factory.

And then there's the whirpool which (while interesting and rewarding) relies on the player either making the extremely idiotic decision to use mermen in caves, or on the foreknowledge- that is not a good thing.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Let's see...
1) Move the player closer to the west/move orcs and the ally dwarf closer to the east. That would resolve a lot of tediousness I think.
2) Widen the bottleneck with the undead. With it being so narrow the undead cannot exit properly and pose very little threat, making them a pointless and boring addition to an already quite boring scenario.
The other suggestions are longer so spoilers:
I played the scenario 2 times. The first time I beat it but I had gone way overboard with my units and ended up with 4-5 dwarves with no XP which were completely unnecessary. I also missed out on the Ulf because I didn't have a merman and lost my ally, costing me guardsmen. I thought it was a bad attempt overall so I went for another round. I'm not posting the replay to the 1st attempt because it was very straightforward and extremely uninteresting.
For the 2nd attempt,
the usual:
-starting gold: 846
-recruits(10): 7x Dwarvish Fighter, 2x Dwarcish Thunderer, Gryphon Rider
-recalls(7): Bandit(loyal), Druid, Enchantress, Shyde, 2x White Mage, Mer Warrior (loyal, trident)
Turn by turn:
-turns taken: 23/60
-no losses, no reloads, 2 attempts total
-advancements(3): Fighter->Steelclad, Thunderer->Thunderguard, Enchantress->Sylph
-end: 553 gold, 18/18 villages
-carryover: 517 (I think, not sure...)
~1/2: Fighter, Thunderer
~1/3: White Mage
~2/3: Mer Warrior, Steelclad, Fighter
~4/5: Druid
~close: White Mage, Fighter, Bandit
-dmg dealt: -4%
-dmg taken: +11%
Bad luck again :(
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Re: Scenario 15: The Lost General

Post by LordWolfDan » October 17th, 2018, 6:32 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?

- 1.14.5, Beginner

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

- 6

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

- Clear, find out what lurks in caves and kill the enemies

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

- When Lionel narrates his backstory, makes you feel sorry for him. Therefore, the dialogue is very well written

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

- Undead, but it'd have been tougher if I hadn't leveled up mages and elvish enchantress from earlier and some dwarwish fighters (two mages of light, one silver mage and one arch mage. Also, elvish enchantress leveled up to elvish slyph)

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

- 8

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

- The troll should have ended up having more income and make the fight against his soldiers more challenging

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