Scenario 17: The Sceptre of Fire

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Re: Scenario 17: The Sceptre of Fire

Postby Ninjuri » May 10th, 2012, 12:31 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Easy 1.10.2
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear- get to the scepter
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Meh- delfador got me exited when he said something like "something senses we are here." I thought i was going to fight a demon or something but then he added that it was the air and the scepter and i was like damn.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Getting landar all the way across the map to the scepter once i found it. Took him like 10 turns to walk over there.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Add a demon in... :lol2:
(8 ) How much gold did you have at the start of the scenario?
532 (including lisar's contribution)
(9) About how many higher level units did you have in your recall list? Don't list them out.
8 lv.2s and 1 lv.3
Fate is against me.
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Re: Scenario 17: The Sceptre of Fire

Postby devavrata » October 3rd, 2012, 9:40 pm

Content Feedback wrote:(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?

Battle for Wesnoth 1.8.3, Easy/Medium/Hard
Content Feedback wrote:(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

8 Quite difficult
The current walkthrough is right to say "The scenario certainly feels as if you're in for a major underground struggle, but the enemy leaders have little money to begin with and -usually- they won't have much of an income either. " and wrong to say "There's three or four enemy leaders, depending on difficulty." - I counted six enemy leaders on hard. However, the real difficulty is not on the enemies but on the time limit (35 turns on hard). It is about exploring under time pressure.
Content Feedback wrote:(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear
Content Feedback wrote:(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Clear
Content Feedback wrote:(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

The caves are vast so exploring them all is quite impossible before the time limit, however on hard I managed to explore nearly all of them - only marginal hexes remained to uncover. I didn't to replay from turn 1 to get to the Sceptre on time.
Content Feedback wrote:(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

8 - I like to explore
Content Feedback wrote:(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Well, being an scenario about exploring, I would have put some more things to find - a dwarven/magician ally, some gold, some minor weapon/artifact, clues about the direction the Sceptre is...
Content Feedback wrote:(8) How much gold did you have at the start of the scenario?

683 gold
Content Feedback wrote:(9) About how many higher level units did you have in your recall list? Don't list them out.
Had 26 3-level units, I chose to recall none of them but rather to rely (and advance) 2-level units and some newly recruited 1-level unit to complete the party.
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Re: Scenario 17: The Sceptre of Fire

Postby SBak » October 3rd, 2013, 2:39 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Easy and medium 1.8.5, 1.10.2 and 1.10.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
On average a 5 or 6.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Kind of clear at first, but it becomes much clearer after the first couple of attempts.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
The storyline is kind of starting to come together at this point but the development here is really quite weak.

Firstly this is not just some artefact, this is THE artefact, the Sceptre of Fire.. hordes of level3 Trolls, Orcs and Dwarves have bashed each other silly over this, kings have been poisoned, this is what sent Landar gaga and turned him psychotic, wars have been fought, and had they invented railways and steam engines the Dwarves would probably have a pretty impressive metro system today.

Also, given what is coming later in the storyline, Delfador I feel would be extremely nervous, ill at ease, and if Konrad had been given a better character there would be plenty of opportunity for banter between him and Li'Sar.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Funnily enough it's actually finding the sceptre itself. It's actually quite small and insignificant, more like a glowing bottle of red holy water. A few times either Konrad or another unit has been duking it out with a Goblin Knight or I've gone three turns past it.

Moving Kalenz through this scenario always seems like a major pain.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
It's kind of fun and pretty engaging so I'd give it a 6 or a 7.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
The storyline needs much more development.. and.. this scenario could be much more engaging and challenging. I just find it hard to accept that you'd get all these enemies in a cave wandering about and none of them would recognize the Sceptre of Fire or its significance

The random map and having to search is good, but I feel it would be much better if the closer you got to the Sceptre the more enemies you had to fight. I would also make the scenario unique in having keeps of different sizes throughout the cave, some with enemies on, and some empty, so players would be prevented from making all their recruiting and recalling decisions at the start.

Instead of just competing with enemy units to capture villages, how about also having to fight over and capture keeps? This would introduce an element of risk. Do you stay and recruit a few times in a castle with three spaces? Or do you look for a bigger keep? What if you recruit too few units? Do you go back and recruit more? Or do you try and take a larger keep from a weaker enemy?

You could even perhaps go as far as having Li'sar stay an ally and using her old recall list, but you get to control her as well as Konrad, so you are competing against yourself (or having the characters competing against each other).

(8 ) How much gold did you have at the start of the scenario?
It varies and I can't remember exactly offhand, but it's generally enough to recruit or recall two or three keeps of units.

(9) About how many higher level units did you have in your recall list? Don't list them out.

If I'm doing well at this point I'll have around half a dozen level 3 units, about another half dozen or more level 2's with a good chance of levelling up and about two dozen level 2's. Usually these are ranged units - Avengers, Enchantresses, maybe a Shyde or a Champion and it's usually - due to my style of playing Elves - two Rangers or Sorceresses to every Hero or Captain.

If not then I'll have maybe one or two level3's and the rest level 2's.
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Re: Scenario 17: The Sceptre of Fire

Postby thejasper » December 22nd, 2013, 4:15 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
1.10.4 med
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
6
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
5
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
4
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Which way do we go?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
OK, when did Lissar become a good guy? I would think her getting the sceptre would be a game loser. Instead its a winner. So I had her grab it. No explanation given as to what that means. I mean, she basically just became the heir right? She is the bad guy right? Ok, we had an alliance, a temporary one, but that doesn't explain her changing sides. In fact it seems to me I just handed the queen the victory. Very strange. Either explain it or remove it. Maybe the next scenarionwill explain it. Also, I gave up on the berserker unit in this scenario. I was trying to level it to see if that made it better, but it is too much of a hassle and I can also just use a unit that doesnt die. I'm assuming it is meant to be a kamikaze unit, but since I have only one and I can't get more, what use is it. Also, why would I want a guaranteed to die unit that does almost no damage when I can use a better unit that might actually level?

(8 ) How much gold did you have at the start of the scenario?
588
(9) About how many higher level units did you have in your recall list? Don't list them out.
36
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Re: Scenario 17: The Sceptre of Fire

Postby Yaya » May 26th, 2014, 3:52 am

one question: how many enemy factions are there supposed to be in this scenario?
My status table is listing 6 different orc factions, but I could only make up four so far (medium 1.10.4);
(one goblin, one impaler, one sending ogres and the last one sending trolls)

overall found this level a bit too easy - not enough units to fight in this scenario where one gets extra gold to put a lot of units out, and then there are not enough fights (I put out 17);
plus its the scenario where the scepter is to be found, so one would expect some major fights^^ - and then there is an occasional lvl3 troll here and there;

Li'sar switching sides is very confusing, I never thought she would stay with the party for the rest of the campaign - therefore did not let her have the scepter or any xp, which proves to be disadvantegous lateron - this could need some improvement;
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Re: Scenario 17: The Sceptre of Fire

Postby zookeeper » May 26th, 2014, 6:34 am

Yaya wrote:one question: how many enemy factions are there supposed to be in this scenario?
My status table is listing 6 different orc factions, but I could only make up four so far (medium 1.10.4);
(one goblin, one impaler, one sending ogres and the last one sending trolls)

Six... but when I tried it myself, I only got four too. Since there was still six castles (plus my own) with the two empty ones pretty close to occupied ones, perhaps the map generator is wired to simply not place enemy sides which would be too close to existing sides? Just a guess, really. I've never been satisfied with the kind of maps the generator produces anyway, so hopefully sooner or later I'll find the drive to rework the scenario somehow.
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Re: Scenario 17: The Sceptre of Fire

Postby Alarantalara » May 26th, 2014, 11:54 am

Except on hard, two of the sides are randomly killed at start, which would explain 4. I assume the code that erases their castles is incorrect (missing array dereference?). Of course, the comments say that there should only be three...
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Re: Scenario 17: The Sceptre of Fire

Postby zookeeper » May 26th, 2014, 12:20 pm

Alarantalara wrote:Except on hard, two of the sides are randomly killed at start, which would explain 4.

Oh, right, I missed that part. :whistle:
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Re: Scenario 17: The Sceptre of Fire

Postby Linthar » July 9th, 2014, 7:44 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Medium Difficulty 1.10.7

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
3

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Perfectly clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
It doesn't feel like there was the appropriate amount of tension between Konrad's group, and Li'sar given that she had tried several times to kill them, and she thought they were a bunch of traitors. They are both far too accepting of the possibility of the other getting the Sceptre, given that it should be assumed that once they leave the caves and their alliance ends they would go back to being enemies. Also while it was nice of Li'sar to give me her purse, it would be a lot nicer if she gave me all the level 2 and 3 troops she kept hiring instead of them apparently vanishing into thin air never to be mentioned again.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The time limit was somewhat tight and could have been messy if I hadn't divided my troops into 2 groups, to explore the map faster. Other then that there was no real obstacles, the only threats were the occasional level 3 trolls and orcs, and they were all easily neutralized by being slowed.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
3. The map is too big for its contents. Most of the scenario is spent slowly trekking through caves killing a trickling of enemies that come one or two at a time. Not really remotely engaging.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Shrink the map and make the enemies recruit more units. Also looking at my replay I saw some cool effects where the ground would break apart to form chasms of lava, but it was always happening at points far further out then I could have reached at the time it was occurring so I never saw that in game. It would be nice if I could have actually seen that happening.

(8 ) How much gold did you have at the start of the scenario?
603

(9) About how many higher level units did you have in your recall list? Don't list them out.
17 level 3's and 26 level 2's not countering the main characters.
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Re: Scenario 17: The Sceptre of Fire

Postby kiss » November 12th, 2014, 1:00 pm

Heir to the Throne - Scepter of Fire - Fighter (Beginner) 1.11.19.
Never played before.

Storyline
At first sight I've found Lisar fall down into Konrad side too fast. But, after all, as we do not have a precise timeline ... perhaps they've spent a long time to debate between this scenario and the previous one's end. And, well, in my case they wait at the entrance of that maze since 3 weeks! I wonder how they spent their time ...
Beside that, I hope she won't go away now! The last dialog isn't that clear about her reliability.

Events +300 gold from Li'sar

The map
I have to say it is the most impressive map I've seen since the beginning.
It's a large map, but technically it is really special.
I've had to restart to read again the storyline and first surprise, Konrad wasn't sitting at the same place!
I've searched for it, but no way to find something. It's a map that doesn't exist!
And now, during the game, there was random events. I think about all those earthquakes, they are triggered in the middle of a turn ... impressive. I've looked what they changed, but it takes time to find out. When I've found ...
That's really a great job, and, I'm not skilled enough to create, but knowing what is possible to do in that map can enlight the most creative scenario makers.

Strategy
Like in all mazes, I always want to be sure to control all paths. With the shroud, nothing better than divide the team to explore each part.
Once more, I've discovered Lisar can't recruit too late, hopefully it wasn't mandatory.
A chance I've thought about healers quite early!
I don't know if the Sceptre emplacement is random. But, well, Lisar was nearer.

CommentsNo reload, no restart
A place to get easy xp as opponents are quite weak. Saying that, I was waiting for a difficult battle, after all it is about becoming the King ... maybe I've missed something?
I've started from 1.11.16 turn 1 saved and all seems ok.

Recall list: 1 lvl 4, 9 lvl 3, 17 lvl 2.
Special ask for this scenario.

Starting gold+(carried over): 100+(188)/400/100.
Finish turn: 26/50, bonus gold: 391.
Recruit 4: 2 Dwarvish Fighter,Dwarvish Guardsman, 2 Dwarvish Thunderer,Elvish Archer,Elvish Fighter,Elvish Scout,Elvish Shaman,Horseman,Mage,Mermaid Initiate,Merman Fighter,Merman Hunter,Thief.
Recall 14: Dwarvish Fighter, 6 Dwarvish Guardsman,Dwarvish Thunderer,Elvish Archer,Elvish Captain,Elvish Druid,Elvish Enchantress,Elvish Fighter,Elvish Hero,Elvish Marksman,Elvish Shaman,Elvish Sorceress, 1 Elvish Shyde, 1 Footpad, 1 Fugitive,Horseman,Knight,Mage, 1 Mage of Light, Mermaid Initiate,Mermaid Priestess,Merman Fighter,Merman Hunter,Merman Warrior, 1 Outlaw,Red Mage,Rogue, 1 Silver Mage, 1 Thief, 1 Thug,White Mage.

XP tracking.
Bandit lvl 2: 42/70
Dwarvish Fighter lvl 1: 9/33, 11/33
Dwarvish Guardsman lvl 1: 39/47, 30/47, 28/38
Dwarwish Stalwart lvl 2: 21/85, 18/68
Dwarvish Thunderer lvl 1: 30/40, 7/32
Delfador Elder Mage lvl 5: 109/240
Kalenz Elvish High Lord lvl 3: 1/150
Elvish Shyde lvl 3: 31/150
Footpad lvl 1: 18/29
Delurin Fugitive lvl 3: 32/120
Konrad Lord lvl 3: 136/150
Moremirmu Mage of Light lvl 3: 1/150
Outlaw lvl 2: 11/62
Lis'ar Princess lvl 2: 130/150
Rogue lvl 2: 30/56
Elrian Silver Mage lvl 3: 12/150

R.I.P. 1: 1 Dwarvish Guardsman
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Re: Scenario 17: The Sceptre of Fire

Postby lefuet » February 9th, 2015, 9:31 am

small bug big annoyance: I nearly missed losing units through lava. The didn't turn up under losses in the status table. I had to count my unit list every turn to make sure.

v1.12
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Re: Scenario 17: The Sceptre of Fire

Postby Tortellini » September 12th, 2015, 12:10 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?

Medium (2 times), 1.12.4 and 1.6 long time ago

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

4

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Very clear. I like the additional information (just when one of my units found the sceptre) that either Konrad or Li'sar can take the trophy.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Very clear. In my opinion It would be better if Konrad and Lisar could argue a little bit when one of them takes the scepter. After all both of them wants this item.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

I usually try to explore the whole map, so my challenge was to check every path before time limit ends. Also sudden lava tiles that appeared at random were quite challenging.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

8. I like this scenario, especially it's randomness and lava pools spreading through the map. Delfador's scepter detecting ability also helps in finding it.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Some more dialogue/argument between Konrad and Li'sar when one of them is taking the sceptre.

(8 ) How much gold did you have at the start of the scenario?

About 500 I think

(9) About how many higher level units did you have in your recall list? Don't list them out.

few level 3, ten level 2.
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Re: Scenario 17: The Sceptre of Fire

Postby SigurdFireDragon » March 23rd, 2016, 12:41 am

Played on 1.12.5 Hero (Normal) 679 Gold

7. I'd like to see it be more of a strategically neutral choice for who to give the scepter to.
9. -- 2 Level 4's -- 14 Level 3's -- 27 Level 2's -- Not counting Konrad, Li'sar, Delfador, or Kalenz

The forces I used for the scenario were mix of recruited or recalled level 1's, plus 2 Elvish Shydes. At turn 14 brought in a White Mage, turn 20 an Elvish Marshall.
Recruit/Recalled quick guardsmen supported by fighters, thunderers, & Shydes (divided into two teams) to explore & control the map quickly. Once I controlled the map, I recalled some additional level 1's & set up xp farming.
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Re: Scenario 17: The Sceptre of Fire

Postby Caladbolg » March 27th, 2016, 5:06 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
1.12.5, medium.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4.5. Not very challenging but not trivial either.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
As clear as they can be.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Very interesting and the dialog is extremely good so kudos for that. The descriptions of scepter's power are simply awesome.
There are only two things that bother me, so spoilers
Spoiler:

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
When I began, the area around the keep had several villages so I assumed that the whole map would have a relatively dense positioning of villages and decided against using any healers (only shydes can move competently in caves but that's a lot of upkeep). When I saw that villages were much sparser than expected, I had already brought so many units that I wasn't comfortable with recalling shydes. As a result, keeping my units alive was a bit challenging. Aside from that I don't think that there's anything very challenging that is inherent in the scenario itself.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
10. Sure, there are some small improvements that could be made in dialog or something but the scenario was awesome. This is how an underground map should look like! Vast and eerie and surprising, not a long drag like in The Lost General. Even though the movement is slow, there were enough enemies and they were nicely positioned so I always had something to do and it wasn't tedious at any point. And there are all these new and interesting mechanics: the redish glow, expanding lava, random map, Delfador concentrating on scepter's location, rumbling sounds... everything adds up to create an intense atmosphere and the descriptive dialog and foreboding music take that even further. This scenario didn't feel like a level in a free open-source game but like a chapter in a good fantasy book with fully fleshed out lore and poetic language. I truly cannot properly express how much it impressed me considering that I last played it on 1.0.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
More interaction between Konrad and Li'sar but their characters could use a lot of development throught the whole campaign anyways. Maybe some kind of a warning in dialog about the dangers of expanding lava. Not much else really.

(8 ) How much gold did you have at the start of the scenario?
740. (440 on start + 300 from Li'sar)

(9) About how many higher level units did you have in your recall list? Don't list them out.
23x lvl 2; 21x lvl 3; 1x lvl 4 (not counting Konrad, Delfy, Kalenz and Li'sar)

And now, for something completely different:
-map: mostly linear, S to N; paths diverge into 2 right off the bat, but merge almost instantly; a bit later they split into 3 (the middle one being 1 hex wide), but converge into two main ones connected horizontally near the N end; scepter was in the NE corner
-starting gold: 740
-recruits(1): Thunderer
-recalls(11): 2x Dwarf Fighter, 3x Stalwart, 2x Steelclad, Thunderer, Thunderguard, Ulf (loyal), Gryphon Rider
-turn 6: Stalwart kills an enemy leader (Goblin Rouser)
-turn 11: 2nd enemy leader (Orcish Warlord) killed by Li'sar; by then, the main path had branched into 3 paths: Steelcald, Stalwart,Ulf and 2 Thunderguards go west, Konrad and a thunderer go through the tiny middle one, and others go east
-turn 15: paths merged by now but there's a divide between west and east; Konrad joins the west group, thunderer the east one; my main preoccupation on the west will be keeping my ulf, stalwart and thunderguard safe as they're low on HP; on the east I try to carefully surround the Troll Warrior without losing anyone
-turn 19: a dwarvish fighter kills the 3rd leader (Troll Warrior) and becomes a Steelclad
-turn 20: scepter sighted in the NE corner of the map; fortunately, that was on Li'sar's path and I intended to give it to her anyways
-turn 22: I make a mistake of leaving Konrad too vulnerable to Warlord's attack because I expected that he wouldn't attack, fearing retaliation; I was wrong but his aim sucks so it all turned out well
-turn 23: a thunderguard kills the last enemy leader (Orcish Warlord); Li'sar takes the Scepter
-turns taken: 23/45
-end: 682 gold, 20/21 villages (it says 20/20 but I checked with debug and there was another village to the N still shrouded)
-carryover: 475
-no losses, no reloads
-advancements(5): Ulf->Berserker, Fighter->Steelclad, Steelclad->Lord, Thunderer->Thunderguard, Stalwart->Sentinel
-XP (not counting those at last level or below 20% XP): Gryphon Rider (~20%), Stalwart (~30%), Stalwart (~40%), 2x Thunderguard & Thunderer (~60%), Steelclad (~70%), Li'sar (~80%), Fighter (~100%)
-dmg dealt: +1%
-dmg taken: -8%
-lucky all in all
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Re: Scenario 17: The Sceptre of Fire

Postby DewyB » March 20th, 2017, 10:12 pm

Not certain if this is the place, but just finished this in 1.13.6 and when Lisar (sp?) picked up the sceptre it registered on Konrad immediately and for the rest of the campaign.

I was looking forward to her getting a ranged attack. Instead, game acted like she had it while Konrad actually did.
Tell me again, where are we going, and why are we in a handbasket?
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